Morons Speeding And Tailgating In A 40 Zone

[prydey]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

Lol I guess not displaying plates is worse than drug driving too?

I don't display my P plates either haven't for 7 months now.

What's the point, other drivers fail to see a bright white continuous line, keep left signs, speed limit signs and even complete cars at times.
So using some standard deviation I've calculated that one in 500 would actually acknowledge and see P plates on my car. Then I realised those are the people who actually have perception meaning that they don't need to know I'm a P plater, they're capable of decision making in dangerous situations themselves. Thus making them pointless leading to removal.

unfortunately you don't get to make the rules and/or decide which ones to follow and which ones to ignore.

humans have had an aversion to authority and rules since time began.

[Crazed]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Rushing to hospital is not reason to speed, it is not safe as you're distracted, full of adrenaline and not adequately equiped nor trained to do so safely. The average code 1 response time for all metro ambulance services in australia is under 9 mins, that is more than enough time for a good outcome even in severe allergic responses. You are lucky the police did not catch you, most will get you to hospital and then give you a ticket, medical emergency is not a defence. What would you have done if your child stopped breathing, you can't give mouth to mouth because you are too busy driving. If you had your wife with you I bet she could not either as mouth to mouth is very difficult to do effectively in a moving vehicle. I am sorry, but it was a bad choice, next time call an ambulance.

The only exception is in rural areas where ambulances may be unavailable or too far away.

Rant over!

I want to say that you guys must have a really hard job as I dont know how I could take to seeing what you guys must see on a daily basis. I have the highest respect for the work you do, Ive been in a few situations over the years where I have been waiting for an ambulance, and seeing the ambulance pull up is the best sight in the world, especially if things are serious.

In the 'bee sting saga' (as my wife puts it) we were in an outer metro area heading home after a picnic, so the problems arose when she was already in the car, I knew where a hospital was and estimated I could get there within four or five minutes plus my wife rang ahead to tell them we were coming. I drove safely and got her there quickly. You have got to be kidding if you would even think for a moment I would care about a speeding ticket in that situation.

Ive also driven a 3 tonne F250 tall body ex-ambulance which was an apalling car, and quite frankly if a vehicle like that is allowed to legally exceed the speed limit then it goes to show how much the safety is reliant on the driver rather than some randomly picked limit for a road. So my point is, safe driving is not all about obeying a limit, instead its being attentive, driving to the conditions including traffic volume and pedestrians. Some cases you would drive very fast (which also keeps you aware and reduces fatigue) or you would drive very slow. The drivers who constantly drive 10 under the limit - no matter the conditions, are probably I would bet, the most accident-prone and dangerous drivers around.

And lets not forget the facts in all this, speed limits have never been lower, cars never been safer and look at the staggering road toll.

In Europe where you have sensible open road limits, you have a lot less 'hoon' behaviour, travelling speed limits are seen as appropriate and are set usually at the 85th percentile, so the populace has a greater respect for the limits. In Australia, how can you possibly expect a young teenager to respect a 40 zone when the government a few suburbs over puts cameras on a safe downhill section of an 6 lane highway and has the speed limit at 60. Once you have damaged the credibility of a speed limit, you have damaged the credibilty of all of them.

[merlin]

I am one of those "anarchists" who thinks the limits are far too low - however I also rightly realise that the law is the law and if I don't like it (which I don't) then the only way to change it is through correspondence, politics and whinging on forums ect ect. not through illegal actions on the roads that will only result in roadrage, accidents and revenue for the government.

As such I drive to conditions, which means staying with the flow of traffic and never really going above 10 over (I will never exceed 15 is my personal rule) - seems to have worked so far - 12 years on the road and no accidents. In fact I would say I am slowing down a great deal more these days - seems to come with age/experience (I'm pushing 30 nowadays).

I think in order to keep everyone happy there should be more "respect" for other motorists. I practice strong lane disipline - sit in the left, and only move right to overtake. If I am in the right and I see someone flying up behind me (which I would if I was constantly scanning my mirrors) I quickly move left, let them go then proceed to recommence my overtaking maneouvre. It is not my job to slow down the "idiot" rather I have every confidence the police will eventually catch up with them which they most often do.

Respect is also about letting other people in when they have their indicator on - people seem to hate doing this (I used to) - I don't care anymore, I just let them in and I seem to have fewer gray hairs for doing so. Seems the favour is often repaid as well.

The other thing that has not been mentioned that people need to consider is the fact that not everyone has the same financial or work situations as you. What I mean by this is sure you might be angry at the guy doing 30 through a 40 zone or 40 in a 110 with roadworks when there is no workers and it might seem silly on the surface. Now cameras and police don't care if its "silly" they will still book him. Maybe this guy needs his license for his job or to get to his job and its just too valuable to risk. Maybe he is struggling to make his mortgage payments and a $200 fine certainly won't help so once again he dosn't risk it.

Point is there is so many scenarios that I just switch off to it all nowdays, take a chill pill, ignore the idiots, drive to the limit and every so often when i get bored rev the turbo out to 6000rpm on an on-ramp and feel the rush. Seems to cure all ills.

[18htan]

I love when people get angry behind me when I am doing the speed limit.

Especially in the morning on the way to work. I just smile and think what tools they are as I watch them in the mirror have a mini meltdown all to get to work 2 minutes early.

Also I have a simple rule... The closer you get the slower I go.

[dannyhilton]

Originally Posted by 18htan

Also I have a simple rule... The closer you get the slower I go.

Some people may say that we're just as bad as those tail gaters for doing this, but I disagree :evil3:

Top job mate!

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by 18htan

I love when people get angry behind me when I am doing the speed limit.

Especially in the morning on the way to work. I just smile and think what tools they are as I watch them in the mirror have a mini meltdown all to get to work 2 minutes early.

So while you're focusing on your rear view smiling with glee at the bloke behind you "having a melt down" tailgating you the bloke in front brakes and you have a "3 way"... not sure its worth the effort, wouldn't it be far easier and less stressful just to keep left, let them go and drive "hassle free"..?

[xtremerus]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

So while you're focusing on your rear view smiling with glee at the bloke behind you "having a melt down" tailgating you the bloke in front brakes and you have a "3 way"... not sure its worth the effort, wouldn't it be far easier and less stressful just to keep left, let them go and drive "hassle free"..?

Agree.
Why try to CAUSE more agro to a tailgater.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by 18htan

I love when people get angry behind me when I am doing the speed limit.

I like you - your a nut, - you should nominate yourself as next LAB Prime Minister.

Especially in the morning on the way to work.

Why not day AND night?

I just smile and think what tools they are as I watch them in the mirror have a mini meltdown all to get to work 2 minutes early.

Behaviour; a reason why we now issue 3 demerit points in NSW for not keeping left multi-lane 80km/h>.

Also I have a simple rule... The closer you get the slower I go.

I saw a sticker like this once, i do have *some* sympathy.

Said before; driving badly is a national pastime here in OZ.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Crazed

I want to say that you guys must have a really hard job as I dont know how I could take to seeing what you guys must see on a daily basis. I have the highest respect for the work you do, Ive been in a few situations over the years where I have been waiting for an ambulance, and seeing the ambulance pull up is the best sight in the world, especially if things are serious..

Thankyou very much, it is often a hard job, often boring, sometimes just plain frightening, sometimes dangerous but always rewarding (except the money).

Originally Posted by Crazed

In the 'bee sting saga' (as my wife puts it) we were in an outer metro area heading home after a picnic, so the problems arose when she was already in the car, I knew where a hospital was and estimated I could get there within four or five minutes plus my wife rang ahead to tell them we were coming. I drove safely and got her there quickly. You have got to be kidding if you would even think for a moment I would care about a speeding ticket in that situation..

First off I would like to point out that I am not criticising you, nor saying there is no basis to your decisions. I am not here to insult you, as you did what you thought was right and at the end of the day, at least you did something, many don't.

However, the fact that you were 4-5 minutes away from the hospital, at what speed? Is that 4-5 minutes at normal speed or gunning it? I understand it was scary, hell I have been there myself (I am very allergic to ant bites, not anaphylaxis but a bite I got on my face caused my throat to swell enough I could not breathe). Having said this I can not help to think that if your wife could breathe well enough to call the hospital, you could have slowed down. In your defence, I was not there so I am speculating and hindsight is always 20/20 vision. I would like you think about it, maybe you will see my point. Understand this, whenever we are deciding if we are going to go lights and sirens to hospital, it comes down to one simple question, does the benefit to the patient outweigh the risks to other road users, pedestrians, us and the patient in terms of safety? The moment we go fast it increases the risk to all. Now consider we can do it a hell of a lot safer than you, so the risk to the patient would have to be spectacular to justify it on the risk/benefit analysis. In my opinion I would suggest a fast drive to hospital was not warranted in your case.

Like I said, my aim is not to criticise and insult you, my aim is for all reading to think about this a bit and imagine what they would do. That way they may be more prepared in the future if they are unlucky enough to find themselves in the same situation.

Originally Posted by Crazed

Ive also driven a 3 tonne F250 tall body ex-ambulance which was an apalling car, and quite frankly if a vehicle like that is allowed to legally exceed the speed limit then it goes to show how much the safety is reliant on the driver rather than some randomly picked limit for a road. So my point is, safe driving is not all about obeying a limit, instead its being attentive, driving to the conditions including traffic volume and pedestrians. Some cases you would drive very fast (which also keeps you aware and reduces fatigue) or you would drive very slow. The drivers who constantly drive 10 under the limit - no matter the conditions, are probably I would bet, the most accident-prone and dangerous drivers around..

Firstly, driving an ambulance at speed is a very complex skill that is way beyond the scope of any description here. It is a skill that is developed over a lot of training and experience. I have had students that have been on the job for 2 years and still require advice from me to do it safely. It requires judgement, skill, attention and planning far beyond what the average motorist could comprehend. All this while dealing with the fear of what you are going to (attending a known fatal car accident with multiple serious injuries puts fear into you, trust me) and having to operate radios, do drug calculations, deal with idiot motorists and all the other road hazards.

Once you get used to the F250/350 ambulances, they handle very well for what they are. Sure they are no race car but fast is relative, and fast in an ambulance is not as fast as a cop car but faster than traffic, hope that makes sense.

As for your last sentence, I will leave that alone except to say that I can not see in any form of logic, which has developed through my experience, how that can be the case.

Originally Posted by Crazed

And lets not forget the facts in all this, speed limits have never been lower, cars never been safer and look at the staggering road toll.

Ok, this is urban myth at it's finest and is not backed up by the evidence. Sure when you look at the road toll in isolation, it is higher than it was a decade ago. The fault in this theory is that although the road toll has increased, so to has the number of vehicles on the road and the size of the population.

Here is my evidence, straight from the ABS

Until 1970, each year other than during the Depression and World War II had seen a steady growth in motor vehicle ownership and a corresponding increase in road deaths. By 1970 the number of vehicles had increased twelve-fold over the number in 1926 and the road toll had increased about four times to reach its highest mark of 3,798 deaths. The number of fatalities per 100,000 people also peaked in 1970 at 30.4. The road toll in 2003 of 1,633 people was less than half the 1970 figure, while the number of fatalities per 100,000 people (8.2) for 2003 was less than a third that of 1970. Also, while there were 8.0 road fatalities per 10,000 registered vehicles in 1970, this rate has decreased to 1.2 in 2003 (ATSB).

Here is the link

The road toll may be increasing but in proportion to number of vehicles and population, it is decreasing. Why is the million dollar question? Is it because of speed cameras (I doubt it, I completely agree more cops is a better solution), is it because cars are safer, is it because roads are better or drivers are better? I do not know, I think it is a combination of all of the above. All I know is I now go to less major road trauma than I did 5 years ago and I like that (less crappy nightmares).

Originally Posted by Crazed

In Europe where you have sensible open road limits, you have a lot less 'hoon' behaviour, travelling speed limits are seen as appropriate and are set usually at the 85th percentile, so the populace has a greater respect for the limits. In Australia, how can you possibly expect a young teenager to respect a 40 zone when the government a few suburbs over puts cameras on a safe downhill section of an 6 lane highway and has the speed limit at 60. Once you have damaged the credibility of a speed limit, you have damaged the credibility of all of them.

Not if you check out youtube and other forms of media, trust me, they have the same issues, they have the same cameras etc. We are not alone.

[18htan]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

So while you're focusing on your rear view smiling with glee at the bloke behind you "having a melt down" tailgating you the bloke in front brakes and you have a "3 way"... not sure its worth the effort, wouldn't it be far easier and less stressful just to keep left, let them go and drive "hassle free"..?

I am in the left...

Also you don't check your mirrors?

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by 18htan

I love when people get angry behind me when I am doing the speed limit.

Shouldn't you be watching infront of you, like kids running out?

Originally Posted by 18htan

Also I have a simple rule... The closer you get the slower I go.

:
So if someone is trying to get to their dieing granmother, you will try and prevent this. Do you know why they are trying to go faster.

If someone is in a hurry, let them past!

[platinumXR]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

So if someone is trying to get to their dieing granmother, you will try and prevent this. Do you know why they are trying to go faster. If someone is in a hurry, let them past!

I suppose what some are trying to say here is how do we know if they are trying to get past? A little flash of the headlights may do the trick instead of driving so close they cannot see your headlights.

Not only is driving too close dangerous but it is counterproductive:


New South Wales Road Rules 2008
Current version for 1 June 2009
Part 11, Division 1

Rule 126 - Keeping a safe distance behind vehicles

A driver must drive a sufficient distance behind a vehicle travelling in front of the driver so the driver can, if necessary, stop safely to avoid a collision with the vehicle.

Fine: $318
Points: 3


NSW Road Transport (Safety and Traffic Management) Act 1999 No 20
Current version for 1 May 2009
Part 3, Division 1,

Section 43 - Menacing Driving

(1) Offence—intent to menace
A person must not drive a motor vehicle on a road or road related area in a manner that menaces another person with the intention of menacing that other person.
Maximum penalty: 30 penalty units or imprisonment for 18 months or both (in the case of a first offence) or 50 penalty units or imprisonment for 2 years or both (in the case of a second or subsequent offence).

(2) Offence—possibility of menace
A person must not drive a motor vehicle on a road or road related area in a manner that menaces another person if the person ought to have known that the other person might be menaced.
Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units or imprisonment for 12 months or both (in the case of a first offence) or 30 penalty units or imprisonment for 18 months or both (in the case of a second or subsequent offence).

(3) Application of section
This section applies:
(a) whether the other person is menaced by a threat of personal injury or by a threat of damage to property, and
(b) whether or not that person or that property is on a road or road related area.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Flail

I've got a big problem with the guards at the "children crossing" right near my home (farrington rd perth)...

They stop me from getting to work on time to let not only the TEENAGERS cross, which is retarded but ok that's why they are there... But then they stop traffic to let goddamn 20/30/40/50 YEAR OLDS cross the road! I can't always stop myself from abusing the out of them, and the "adult" going past.. god save me from old heros with flags..

Time for some self reflection Flail. Ask yourself "Why is my life so important that five minutes at a crossing for an adult to cross the road, makes such a difference?" List the endless reasons why you are important and discuss with family, friends and workmates. Be prepared for some knockers though, as not everyone is in tune with who you are.


Also things that will help enable others like "How do I get others to respect my greatness and poor time management skills?". This could be good in coming up with some stratergies to help others understand and work with you - the most important person in your world.

Good luck with it and keep us posted.

Dan

[DBourne]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Ok, going to tell you a little story and see if it makes sense.

I was on shift and recieved a lights and sirens job to a major road for a patient fitting. We got to the intersection and there was no car, we then got an update with a new intersection so we proceeded. On our way there at considerable speed, but safely (not much traffic but it was night), we recieved another update with a new intersection. This is when it clicked that they were in the car moving. We got the call taker to instruct the caller to pull over and wait. By the time we caught them, we had been on case for 15 mins, the patient was still fitting and was very hypoxic (lack of oxygen). Within minutes we stopped the seizure with midazolam and had reversed the hypoxia by ventilating them. The outcome was good and the patient survived, with no ill effects.

The thing is that the distance that the car had covered, in the amount of time they did, they would have been doing well over 100km/h in predominately 60 zones. Do you think that is safe, considering some of it was built up areas with cafes and bars? A pedestrian could have stepped out and been hit by a speeding car with someone fitting inside.

The other important fact is we were on the initial scene within 4 mins from call recieved, we could have stopped the seizure within 6 mins instead 17-18. Had they not stopped, we would not have caught them and the outcome may have been a lot worse.

I guarantee you an ambulance can get to hospital faster than you can, while still offering safety for all. The biggest point is a vast mojority of the times we do not need to go to hospital quickly as we have a vast array of life saving skills that negates the need. In 5 years and thousands of lights and sirens call outs, I have gone lights and siren to hospital perhaps 30 times, what does that tell you? Like I said the national average is under 9mins for code 1 response.

But then, what would I know?

Bit off topic, but great post Gecko! I have always had immense respect for you guys and this post just summs it up brilliantly!

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

So if someone is trying to get to their dieing granmother, you will try and prevent this. Do you know why they are trying to go faster.

So, do we assume that you consider it reasonable to speed, risk your life and others to get to a dying grandmother. This situation is upsetting I know but you will not change it by getting there sooner. I am not so sure the police will be too understanding either.

Originally Posted by SgtBourne

Bit off topic, but great post Gecko! I have always had immense respect for you guys and this post just summs it up brilliantly!

Thanks, I try but mostly I am just really trying!

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

So, do we assume that you consider it reasonable to speed, risk your life and others to get to a dying grandmother. This situation is upsetting I know but you will not change it by getting there sooner. I am not so sure the police will be too understanding either.

Whilst you have the misconception that 'speed kills' you will never understand or cherish life. You clearly have no respect for life. Just manufactured statistics.

It is perfectly save to drive above posted speed limit, it is however, illegal.

Originally Posted by geckoGT

risk your life and others

I had to quote you again, that's funny to say.

Speed kills... What a joke!

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Whilst you have the misconception that 'speed kills' you will never understand or cherish life. You clearly have no respect for life. Just manufactured statistics.

It is perfectly save to drive above posted speed limit, it is however, illegal.


I had to quote you again, that's funny to say.

Speed kills... What a joke!

Sorry but that is plain ridiculous....

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Sorry but that is plain ridiculous....

If you say so.

When I wrote it, I was reading the 'death notices' in todays paper, so please excuse how ridiculous it may seem. When I drove into work I did 65 in a 60 and must have 1000's of inocent people. Oh wait, no... No one died... That's can't be right. Speed kills.

[platinumXR]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

you will never understand or cherish life. You clearly have no respect for life.

An Ambo with no respect for life?...hmmm..._

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

If you say so.

When I wrote it, I was reading the 'death notices' in todays paper, so please excuse how ridiculous it may seem. When I drove into work I did 65 in a 60 and must have 1000's of inocent people. Oh wait, no... No one died... That's can't be right. Speed kills.

You're totally and comprehensively missing the point about the "speed kills" message...
Excessive speed does/can "kill", plain and simple, too fast for the conditions and hit another vehicle, ask the parents of the 4 teenagers killed saturday night....
Nobody is saying the posted limits are correct, or that faster than the posted limit may not be "safe", but you're not the only person on the road, and speed differential between vehicles can be a big issue too.
Think a bit laterally for a second....
People are saying we're being "conditioned" to think of speed as dangerous, i think some poeple can't think through the meaning of message clearly anyway....
Maybe the "message" needs to be dumbed down to reflect that "excessive speed" can be deadly... i.e 40 through a car park, or 80 in a 100 zone in thick fog and driving rain....
You'd think most intelligent people would know that though, obviously not.. :togo:

[flappist]

Originally Posted by platinumXR

An Ambo with no respect for life?...hmmm..._

Well he did used to kill people for a living once.......

This thread is going bezerk, each side is moving further and further from the actual topic. Life is NOT black and white, it is many shades of grey and there is NO situation where speeding is always safe or always dangerous.

That is probably why part of holding a drivers license is supposed to be the ability to recognise a situation for what it is and then behave accordingly.

If some people (and not just AFF members) spent more looking after themselves and less time trying to control others the world would be a much better and SAFER place.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by flappist

Well he did used to kill people for a living once.......

This thread is going bezerk, each side is moving further and further from the actual topic. Life is NOT black and white, it is many shades of grey and there is NO situation where speeding is always safe or always dangerous.

That is probably why part of holding a drivers license is supposed to be the ability to recognise a situation for what it is and then behave accordingly.

If some people (and not just AFF members) spent more looking after themselves and less time trying to control others the world would be a much better and SAFER place.

Exactly...

[platinumXR]

Originally Posted by flappist

This thread is going bezerk, each side is moving further and further from the actual topic

Nooo...that would never happen here...would it?

[RG]

Originally Posted by flappist

This thread is going bezerk, each side is moving further and further from the actual topic.

True that, so far so that the actual topic can't be seen due to the pile of rubbish heaped on top of it.

I'd go through and clean it up but we'd be left with bugger all.

We are done.