Want Proof the Oil Companies Are Doing Us Over?

[JAJH]

We are currently paying approx $.49 cents per litre in Excise Duty (A nice word for Tax) and then 10% GST on top. So, at around $1.25 per litre currently that equates to roughly $.65 cents per litre before tax/duty. Not a bad little earner I say.

[JPFS1]

I have been avoiding this thread because it is one damn complex topic.

Some important points to consider...

1. The easy OIL is GONE.

2. We are now NOT discovering new fields at the rate that we were or need to, even with new seismic mapping technology etc. The largest producing fields were all discovered back in the 40's, 50's and 60's. We are by far, consuming more OIL per year than we are discovering.

3. Some of the major fields around the world (Saudi, Kuwait) are now at PEAK and can't be pushed any further. They are pumping so much water (7 million barrels a day) into them to pressurise the field to extend the life of the field but are now bordering on uneconomic fields because the water cut (amount of water extracted with the oil)is approaching 40/50%.

4. We can't just point the finger at the government etc. They are actually doing a lot to help OIL/GAS explorers in Australia, and yes we do have many producing oil and gas fileds here, but as has been mentioned, depending on the age of the structures in the field etc, the composition of the oil is of a certain grade and is suitable for certain things.

5. The federal government have an excise on our fuel of 38c flat, not a % as some think. It's a 14c reduction since the last tax reform. The difference between the price of petrol from state to state is a local government initiative.

6. Buy shares in a good OIL producing co. It's a good hedging strategy against the rising price of OIL.

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by bundybloke

after reading this article http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/
down the bottom on page 2 I found this on an alternative fuels

"First, there is the problem of production costs. According to a recent article in Fortune Magazine, a barrel of oil produced via the thermal depolymerization process costs $80 to produce as of January 2005. To put that figure in perspective, consider the fact that oil pulled out of the ground in Saudi Arabia costs less than $2.50 per barrel, while oil pulled out of the ground in Iraq costs only $1.00 per barrel.

This means that with spot oil prices in the $50/barrel range, a barrel of oil produced via thermal depolymerization in January 2005 would have to sell for between $1,600-$4,000 per barrel to have a return on investment comparable to oil produced from Saudi Arabia or Iraq.

Oil prices of $1,600-$4,000 per barrel would put gas prices at roughly $80-$200 per gallon."

buy for $2.50 a barrel refine and sell for $70 ish mmmmmm

and Casper going by that report Russia peaked in 1987

also check out the last 1/4 of page 2
"Do World Governments Have Plans to Deal With This?"
very intresting reading.

Yeah, it's a great read. Sceptic or not, theres some good points there and most of it is well referenced.

The scary stuff? Have a look at alternatives - hydrogen, ethanol, solar, oil shale, tar sands. All of It's all a bloody disgrace - each and every one of them consumes more energy than they produce. The plan at the moment is pretty much sit around and wait for someone to come up with the ideal solution. Not good.

The most sickening point i found in there was Jevon's paradox. The more you do as an individual so save oil, the quicker it ends up getting used. Have a read - it's absolutely twisted.

[XplosiveR6]

the reason, i think why there is no real alternatives to petrol being designed and implemented at the moment, is because oil campanys and governments dont want this, oil companys do whatever they can to stop alternative so they can keep their monopoly and governments are getting so much tax from petrol, they wouldnt want it to stop.

also the best alternative at the moment is a motorbike, and its quite a good one.

[gozza]

or a moped...who the hell wants a moped...but if it got so bad that everyone was driving one i probly wouldn't care as much

[XR666T]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Just touching on chilliman's comment about peak oil. This is very scary. I suggest that anyone with an hour or two to spare have a read of http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/ and I assure you the price of petrol will be the last thing on your mind

Well, I just spent an hour or more reading about peak oil, things I never even knew about, and I gotta say that it doesn't sound all that far-fetched to me. It's either EXTREMELY well constructed and thought out scaremongering or an accurate prediction of what we can expect in the coming 5 decades.

I guess the take-home message, for me anyway, is that I think the days of seeing sub-$1/L unleaded are well and truly history. Please feel free to correct me and ease my mind though

[SB076]

Hey JEM, you seem to know a thing or two about this topic, what do you beleive will happen to petrol powered cars in the future? Would you expect to see large cars depreciate rapidly over the next few years because nobody can afford to fill them?

[XYGTHO]

Might all be back to good ol horse back one day in the distant future. I think i will drive my cars as much as i can well its still a bit affordable. From everything ive heard its gona get a lot worse.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by GTP 320

Why is it then that the American fuel is much cheaper than ours,what has happened to the oil parity then.
I'd like to know?
Cheers John

Because they blend it with ethanol.

In 2000-2001 Australia produced 42,753 million litres of liquid petroleum (crude oil, condensate and Liquefied Petroleum Gas) which is 95% of the demand for liquid petroleum products – 44,671 million litres.

Australia has eight major oil refineries which are capable of producing enough petroleum products to easily supply the domestic economy and some exports as well. However, these refineries only source about 40% of their crude oil requirements from Australian fields. This is partly because Australian crude oil is generally light and getting lighter. Some heavier crude oils are required to produce heavier products such as lubricating oils and bitumen, and as this occurs Australian refineries (which are in general not designed to process large quantities of the very light crudes), must resort to heavier crude imports

The other significant reason is that overseas crude oils can be purchased at lower prices. This is a function of the value that ALL oil refineries place on each possible crude they can purchase. Every refinery has a different configuration of plant and equipment and depending upon the product demand in their particular market, particular refinery limitations and the different product yields (petrol, diesel, kerosene) that are produced from each crude oil, they will each see slightly different value for every crude oil at a particular point in time. Australian refineries are no different and with the highly competitive Australian market under considerable financial pressure, refiners are always seeking ways of reducing costs, and finding cheaper crudes (or better value crudes) is one of these.

Over time imports of crude oil have been sourced increasingly from the Asian region – largely due to the cheaper freight from Asia to Australia (compared with crudes from the Middle East). Asian crudes also generally have lower sulphur levels than Middle Eastern crudes (which in turn makes them more expensive than Middle East crudes), but adds to the attractiveness of Asian crudes as sulphur levels in Australian diesel and petrol are regulated downwards. The single largest supplier of imported crude oil to Australia in 2000-2001 was Vietnam at 12%. The largest supplier of Middle Eastern crudes to Australia was Saudi Arabia at 8%, although the Middle East as a whole supplies 18% of our requirements.

On top of this, we also import refined petroleum from singapore.

Now we know why we are over a barrel (of crude oil)

[svo347]

More to the point... Anyone care to bid on how high the prices will go??

[ltd]

check this out

http://www.aip.com.au/pricing/orima2.htm#

[GasoLane]

And for those here who seem to be employed by various oil companies and say that it's NOT all the Oil companies fault, have a look at the bottom line for Exxon (Mobil) in the last QUARTER, a record $7.64bn profit http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...072802085.html

But poor old Shell had to settle for a miserable $10.18bn profit in the first half. http://news.ft.com/cms/s/e2b55900-ff...00e2511c8.html

Roger.

[mcflux]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

The scary stuff? Have a look at alternatives - hydrogen, ethanol, solar, oil shale, tar sands. All of It's all a bloody disgrace - each and every one of them consumes more energy than they produce. The plan at the moment is pretty much sit around and wait for someone to come up with the ideal solution. Not good.

Yes, I was going to mention oil shale. Canada has oil shale deposits which come to about 1.5 times the capacity of Saudi Arabia's oil fields. The problem is economically extracting the stuff.

We won't run out of oil for a long long time. We will run out of economically-extractable oil however! Think of the available resources taking the shape of a bell-curve. We only take the stuff from the most favourable end of this curve. This means that there is a whole heap of oil still available, but the way it is locked up in the ground means it is less economical to extract. As we find more economical ways to extract this remaining oil (or the economy/need for oil makes it more attractive to extract at higher costs), we take a bit more out of that bell curve.

Hence Canada's oil shale deposits. One day these will be "affordable" for extracting and refining. Of course, petrol might be the equivalent of paying $10/litre in today's money by that time (and the arab fields won't have their undercutting potential by this stage, so let's say this might happen in a few decades), but with the pricing making these deposits usable, we'll again have a plentiful supply of oil.

And with Canada having an OK economy, and being politically stable, shale oil prices should remain quite steady.

Personally I see gas becoming dominant later on in this century. But I'll stick with petrol for now, because like most of you here, I'm not happy with paying $x for petrol, but I'll keep paying it because my want to drive my car makes it "worth it" to me :sm_headba

-Dave-

[brenx]

The problem is the gov't aren't interested in looking after Australian's. Hence why they signed up to sell fuel to us @ world prices.

The gov't will help by sending millions of $ in aid to other countries and just tax us more to fund it. Where instead they should be trying to solve the problems in their own backyard before trying to sort everyone elses. Basically they are minding everyone elses business while letting theirs go to s**t.

[XYGTHO]

Originally Posted by brenx

The problem is the gov't aren't interested in looking after Australian's. Hence why they signed up to sell fuel to us @ world prices.

The gov't will help by sending millions of $ in aid to other countries and just tax us more to fund it. Where instead they should be trying to solve the problems in their own backyard before trying to sort everyone elses. Basically they are minding everyone elses business while letting theirs go to s**t.

Absolutely correct. Well said. I try not to think about it because i just get the sh#ts. All the government is worried about is sucking up to every other country. What about looking after their own first? :jab: I'm proud to be an aussie but am disgraced in the way our country is being ran these days. By a heap of selfish pigs.