Bypass Radiator Cooler - URGENT

sd1800 · 22-06-2010, 01:17 PM

Need to know people's opinions. Car is currently at Auto shop and I need an answer for him by tomorrow morning.

Torque converter is rooted & forward clutch has worn (115,000km) due to previous owner towing a boat to Port Macq with no cooler. I want a external cooler fitted also for peace of mind for the future.

Does everyone here recommend that you bypass the radiator completely when using a external cooler, or do you use it in series? I wanted it bypassed, but he said when sitting in bumper to bumper traffic if you are not using the radiator cooler the trans will heat up real quick because it isn't getting any flow from the Thermo fans. Is this true? Whats the case here?? FYI car is used 90% city driving. He mentioned it's very uncommon for private AU's to experience the coolant>transmission problem. Moreso taxi's.

Also, If i was to ask him to fit a higher stall, what rpm would be suitable for a daily driver on the street?

Thanks in advance.

Bushbasher · 22-06-2010, 01:45 PM

You could always bypass the radiator and put a small fan on the front of the cooler itself, I've seen them on ebay. Having said that, I heard somewhere that running the radiator cooler helps stabilize the trans temp even with the external cooler and stops the trans running too cold as well as too hot but it would take someone with alot more knowledge of transmissions to confirm or deny that cos personally I can't imagine a scenario where the trans would run too cool even with an external cooler unless you went overboard and but in a stupidly big one.

Bushbasher

mik · 22-06-2010, 01:46 PM

there could be some truth in what he said, i was tempted to run my auto cooler on its own, but decided not too (even in light of the odd report of factory auto coolers failing), that said i have a healthy lack of optimism in the durability of alloy radiators in modern cars so i now change my radiator every 5 years, regardless of k`s(its a bit of peace of mind), i tow a heavy old caravan now an again , last trip was melb to noosa and around brizzy return in summer, 40c no problems, i think it comes back to how well maintained and up to date your cooling system is , i often wonder how many of these failures is due to lack of proper maintenance or repairs.

Pinkbits · 22-06-2010, 01:47 PM

Most after market trans coolers are fitted in front of the existing radiator & would draw the same air as the radiator.
I would by-pass the existing cooler, less chance of contamination.

POELWYK · 22-06-2010, 01:56 PM

im with pink bits both of my aus are setup this way and there hasent been a problem with it infact the cars run cooler only by a likke bit

RG · 22-06-2010, 02:00 PM

Don't bypass the radiator.

It also works to heat the oil when cold and on cold days, not having it can also cause premature wear and failure. Ask Stav.

mrfordfairmont · 22-06-2010, 02:07 PM

by pass the radiator cooler as it will fail and cause major problem so just get the oil cooler put on the radiator this is what ford does when they fit the towing pack.

if your worred about the temp of the box get a temperature gauge fitted

sd1800 · 22-06-2010, 02:15 PM

Geez, alot of replies very quickly. Thanks very much guys.

It seems it is still a very debatable subject amongst everyone. I have however heard of Stav's issues and that combined with what RG and my transmission guy have said I'll probably run it through the radiator EDIT: just saw mrfordfairmont's post and debating this

On a side note as mentioned in original post, I'm thinking of while I have been forced to spend money on the box, would it be worthwhile to put a high stall in and what would be the best rpm for a daily thats driven in the city and never taken to the track? Just want to get rid of abit of the boggyness.

mrfordfairmont · 22-06-2010, 03:00 PM

it's better that you bypass the radiator as they fail and it is better to have the external cooler and have no problem the get coolant in the box and it will cost big $$$ to fix if this happens

sd1800 · 22-06-2010, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrfordfairmont

it's better that you bypass the radiator as they fail and it is better to have the external cooler and have no problem the get coolant in the box and it will cost big $$$ to fix if this happens

Yeah I realise this, problem is if your in bumper to bumper crawling traffic which I do usually twice a day to work and back, is the transmission cooler recieving enough airflow? Transmission guy is implying this isn't the case.

james22 · 22-06-2010, 03:39 PM

As Bushbasher mentioned earlier. If you are worried about trans temps while idling / crawling in heavy traffic, fit another small fan to the front of the cooler.
You can also wire these in with the thermofans. So when sitting in traffic, the thermo's and trans cooler fan operate together.
This way your trans won't overheat, and you also don't have the problem with the radiator - coolant contaminating your gearbox if it fails whilst hooked in series.

Cheers

seduced_xr · 22-06-2010, 03:42 PM

my BA was bought with 68k km, trans cooler went at around 72.

i have the PWR trans cooler mounted infront of my radiator. it works perfectly.

i travel bumper to bumper to work, and no traffic coming home.

clearly your trans guy is an idiot.. if he thinks stopped in traffic wont give you the required airflow, then by his logic your radiator wont get the required airflow, as its mounted the same way taking in the same air.

fit the cooler, or dont whinge to us WHEN it goes not IF it goes.

sd1800 · 22-06-2010, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seduced_xr

my BA was bought with 68k km, trans cooler went at around 72.

i have the PWR trans cooler mounted infront of my radiator. it works perfectly.

i travel bumper to bumper to work, and no traffic coming home.

clearly your trans guy is an idiot.. if he thinks stopped in traffic wont give you the required airflow, then by his logic your radiator wont get the required airflow, as its mounted the same way taking in the same air.

fit the cooler, or dont whinge to us WHEN it goes not IF it goes.

What's up your ****?

I am thinking I will keep it seperate because this is the way my EB2 is and haven't had a problem with that, neither have yourself and many others here.

However your theory in part fails. Thermofans are located at rear of radiator. Transcooler is located in front. Why is it not a probable conclusion that the transcooler is not going to recieve as much airflow from the thermofans as what the radiator would in traffic? Clearly everyone has a different view

Thank you everyone for your input. I think I might take james22's suggestion.

ronwest · 22-06-2010, 04:03 PM

No issues with my auto or trans cooler after 2+ years. Fitted to by-pass radiator.

Pinkbits · 22-06-2010, 04:06 PM

Guys, keep it civil please.

mac_man_luke · 22-06-2010, 04:11 PM

If the AU radiator/cooler is anything like the B series id bypass it.

seduced_xr · 22-06-2010, 04:22 PM

SD1800 - its more to the point that ive been through this, and watched close mates go through this, and we tell everyone about this issue, its a common problem in the BA and the AU for this to happen, EB didnt have this problem. not to this extent anyway.

its $300 now or $3500 later... people aernt getting the message. i told my neighbour about this after i went through it and i kept bugging him to get an external cooler. 3 months later his went aswell and hes ranting on to me about how hes taking ford to court over this defect.. his $300 of cheapness cost him $3500 later.

GK · 22-06-2010, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac_man_luke

If the AU radiator/cooler is anything like the B series id bypass it.

Absolutely agree.

A mate had one go a few months back. After the box was sorted out, what did the auto guy recommend? PWR trans cooler mounted to by pass the radiator.

What was my response? I bought one off ebay, biggest available and did likewise. Thanks JC for sorting that out.

I'd take a poll and see how many guys have had a transmission fail due to the cooler not being in series. I could be wrong, but I wouldn't reckon there'd be many.

How many have had a radiator fail, and feed coolant into the box? I reckon there'd surely be a number.

Your car though, and you've got to do what you reckon is right.

All the best with it.

GK

The Monty · 22-06-2010, 04:30 PM

From what Ive seen here, both ways seem good, with noone having a bad experience.
Myself, on both this car and the monty I ran them in a series, no problems yet, touch wood.
As for a stall converter, if you like a gentle every day stall converter, get a 3000rpm TCI stall. If you want something without the lockup in 3rd and 4th, and slips like all hell trying to get anywherre, but is snappy as all hell, get a 2800rpm Red Diamond stall.

mrfordfairmont · 22-06-2010, 04:32 PM

my trans cooler is 2inchs off the front of my radiator and it does not get hot

this is on my xd v8 with ef thermos which i can put a peice of paper on the front of the car and it stays there until the fans turn off

i see no problem, the fans should pull enough air flow through to cool the radiator and trans cooler.

RG · 22-06-2010, 04:42 PM

I thought I'd accidentally stumbled into the B series section with all this talk of BA trans failures. Last I checked the AU didn't suffer the issues the BA did so that is a moot point. My trans has done 160k now, 70k of that was withe the 347 and it has never had any issues. Still shifts perfectly and the oil is a nice colour.

I think we need to remember what it is we are talking about here.

JC · 22-06-2010, 04:52 PM

At last count, I've had 5 auto AUs and now a Territory. I have been running 2 external by-passed coolers on my AU for 12 months, and 2 on the territory for 6 months. Both cars have the coolers mounted in front of the radiator. Like you, sd1800, I was worried about airflow through the coolers and the radiator in high temp conditions when in stop/start traffic. The advice I got from the local auto trans guy (who does at least 2 taxis a week) is that the trans oil runs hotter than the water in your radiator (around 215 to 225 degrees F, or around 101 to 107 Celsius).

As far as the radiator goes, when your water temp reaches around 92 to 95 degrees Celcius (around 198 to 203F), the thermo fans come on, SUCKING air through the radiator, and, by default, through the cooler (or in my case, coolers).

So, the thermo fans, while only switched on by the water temp, should kick in well before your trans oil starts to get too hot - the water in your radiator will hold temp and climb in temp faster than the trans fluid will.

So, with the air flow issue sorted, by-pass is the only option in my book. Every manufacturer of auto trans coolers recommends running one or two sizes more than standard if you are going to by pass. So for an I6, run the V8 sized one, or do what I did, and run 2 x 6 cyl ones (terry) or V8 and 6 cyl one (Fairmont). To not by-pass (ie fitting in series) is almost a waste of time; you'd be better off fitting a high flow thermostat for towing duties - far cheaper than a trans cooler, and will actually do a better job of keeping everything cool.

One last "argument" on the 'for" case; the SY Territories don't have a trans cooler (either internal or external) anywhere near the radiator any more - they use a heat sink mounted to the side of the engine, which to me is the ultimate by-pass cooler. How do you reckon they go in stop/start traffic with zero air flow? (My guess is that Ford tested this and found it to be an acceptable way of keep the transmission cool, but then this is the same ford that gave us self destructing radiators taking the auto trans with it since 1998, roughly).

Quote:

Originally Posted by RG

I thought I'd accidentally stumbled into the B series section with all this talk of BA trans failures. Last I checked the AU didn't suffer the issues the BA did so that is a moot point. My trans has done 160k now, 70k of that was withe the 347 and it has never had any issues. Still shifts perfectly and the oil is a nice colour.

I think we need to remember what it is we are talking about here.

Russell - for some reason, the BAs suffer worse than the AUs, but this all started with the radiators used in the AUs, and the radiator for a BA is pretty much identical to an AU one (keeping in mind that the BA is really an AU4, or AV, whichever you prefer!)

GK · 22-06-2010, 05:59 PM

Well explained JC.

All those in favour say "I". LOL!

GK

V8falcons · 22-06-2010, 08:33 PM

My AU wags auto (300ks) has a V8 external cooler,with a manual radiator so no trans cooler at all in the radiator,but I will point out the box did get hot whilst towing a car on a trailer this year(econo light flashing and all),Normal driving and light towing is fine ,but I will now fit another cooler to complement the V8 item to keep things cooler for the hard yards.

**Jastel** · 22-06-2010, 08:39 PM

Never had an AU radiator cooler fail in the taxis

Two BA failures

No extra Coolers

It is luck of the draw, worst one failed at 6000km, others lasted until 530000km

All serviced every 40000km, water changed when it lost colour

mik · 23-06-2010, 01:17 AM

i wonder if it was actually a static electricity problem with the auto coolers, when i changed the radiator in my Au due to a tiny pin hole in the alloy tubes, my young brother pulled the bottom tank and auto cooler out of my radiator(without my permission the little prik), anyway the auto cooler i noted was quite thick brass material, i could`nt see how they would become porouse(leaky) unless there was some very destructive chemical reaction or electrolysis happening, i might add mine was in very good order,
the only thing i can think of is either they had the auto cooler tank made of a different material, or they had bad coolant in them, or the radiator had a static or electrical charge going through it makeing it an anode.

**Jastel** · 23-06-2010, 07:14 PM

It can be electrolysis

Never use anything but genuine Ford hoses, they have something (carbon?) in them to help with stray current. I tried a cheapie once, the (oldish) radiator went shortly afterwards, and the thermostat housing had almost corroded away.

smoo · 23-06-2010, 08:07 PM

Another vote for bypassing the radiator.
Your car maybe on its original radiator, if so you're taking your chances. My first AU was an owner/driver taxi who had fitted an external cooler bypassing the radiator. It is still on the original gearbox at 470k! I've never seen an AU make it that far without the auto giving up.
The first thing I did when I bought my 99 Fairmont wagon a few months ago was bypass the (original) radiator, for piece of mind.

**Mechan1k** · 23-06-2010, 10:41 PM

Your best bet .... get rid of the factory radiator and got with an aftermarket item with a better internal core.

I ran mine in series after i replaced the stock radiator (after I found a small leak in it) with a better ADRAD item.

I had no issues with sitting in Sydney traffic ... with a loaded up ute ... and/or towing as well with this setup.

The issues with contamination was due to the poor quality Ford original radiators used.