Cars crashing after police call off pursuits?

[Scaffy]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

So in other words, if police try and pull someone over and they run your saying they should be let off because they have decided to make poor choice and shouldnt be punished for it?

If you have an overwhealming desire to run from police because they come up behind you, then you have something wrong with you, OR your trying to hide something.

This why there are certain laws around to punish people who make incredibly poor choices in life (yes some laws are so stupid they make you laugh). But if you have done nothing and are simply driving around minding your own business and Police pull you over, you do the right thing and pull over.

I drove a very distintive XB sedan for many yrs and on average i was being pulled over EVERY month for 5yrs. Police and the Mermaids would go over my car with a fine tooth comb. And each time i saw the lights behind me i had no desire to run.
And why? because i had NOTHING TO HIDE.

Yet this idea is abhorrent to you?

No, this was in reference to changing the law so mandatory jail terms were to apply. Someone goes to take off (not sure if they are over the limit, for example), then rationality hits them after initial hit of adrenalin and they would pull over under normal circumstances. But, in the event of mandatory jail terms, that rationality would then ask, do you want to go to jail for 5 years because you just took off and even if you do stop, they could've called in that you ran and hey, mandatory is mandatory! Confusion, a couple of drinks under the belt (not necessarily drunk), fear and panic may well be enough to send someone on their way.

[Highway]

[flappist]

FFS

Do you people understand what the word MANDATORY means?

It means there is no power for a magistrate to take anything into account.

So if you are driving your pregnant wife or snake bitten child or whatever to hospital and do not want to waste time explaining this while they may die too bad.....6 months jail.

You are in shock due to any number of reasons and do not notice the disco....tough....6 months.

You are just riding along on your motorcycle at about 110-120km/h in reasonable traffic on windy rural roads and some junior officer in a police car tries to catch you but as he cannot overtake and never gets with 5km of you so you have no idea he was even there....who cares....6 months.

You get a phone call that your wife of almost 20 years who is in the oncology ward has had a bad turn and will be dead very soon so you had better hurry and you manage to drive a Blueprint GT-P rego GTP66 from Brisbane airport to Hervey Bay hospital in under 2 hours and don't remember any of it but manage to get there just in time to say a last goodbye.

Tough titties.....you go to jail son.

Without an independent court system we are doomed.

There are plenty of examples in history of what happens with out it, learn from them.

P.S.at least three of the above events actually happened to people I know.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by flappist

FFS

Do you people understand what the word MANDATORY means?

It means there is no power for a magistrate to take anything into account.

So if you are driving your pregnant wife or snake bitten child or whatever to hospital and do not want to waste time explaining this while they may die too bad.....6 months jail.

You are in shock due to any number of reasons and do not notice the disco....tough....6 months.

You are just riding along on your motorcycle at about 110-120km/h in reasonable traffic on windy rural roads and some junior officer in a police car tries to catch you but as he cannot overtake and never gets with 5km of you so you have no idea he was even there....who cares....6 months.

You get a phone call that your wife of almost 20 years who is in the oncology ward has had a bad turn and will be dead very soon so you had better hurry and you manage to drive a Blueprint GT-P rego GTP66 from Brisbane airport to Hervey Bay hospital in under 2 hours and don't remember any of it but manage to get there just in time to say a last goodbye.

Tough titties.....you go to jail son.

Without an independent court system we are doomed.

There are plenty of examples in history of what happens with out it, learn from them.

P.S.at least three of the above events actually happened to people I know.

Mandatory sentencing is an EXTREMELY dangerous path to take....

What we DO need is a judicial system that has more flexibility to sentences for any given offence and more contemporary Judges in tune with public opinion who are prepared to sentence according to common sense....

[ThaFlash]

It's certainly a good argument against mandatory sentencing.

[Franco Cozzo]

Do we actually have any mandatory sentences at the moment?

[Jim Goose]

Where did mandatory sentencing come into the arguement?

Someone suggested three strikes and your out.....

There is also an appeals system.

[ThaFlash]

just now i was walking my dog, and a highway patrol car ve ss (sounded wicked too) pulled over a hoon (tow truck came and took the pooh box), breathe tested and taken away in the back seat in tears.

closest freeway to the pullover was 1.4 k's away, dunno what the incident was or where it was, but he must have taken a while to pullover?

highspeed chase, no, failing to stop within a reasonable time frame maybe as i could hear the sirens quite away for some time. i was actually expecting an ambo due to the old population in the area, quite comon.

one can see how tempting it might have been for this guy not to pull over given the amount of time the sirens were going and they literally stopped in front of me.

edit: i was deducing he didn't stop straight away...

[ThaFlash]

big damo i thought they were gonna bring in mandatory jail for people running away from the police, that was about a year ago.... it might be on the books though I can't find anything on it.

[BHDOGS]

I dont think my opinions are the only right ones flappy old boy but i dont see why the do gooders have to win every time why not try mandatory death sentences for people who run from the police for awhile sure it wont solve them running but it sure will solve them running more then once which is currently the situation

[flappist]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

I dont think my opinions are the only right ones flappy old boy but i dont see why the do gooders have to win every time why not try mandatory death sentences for people who run from the police for awhile sure it wont solve them running but it sure will solve them running more then once which is currently the situation

Well if mandatory death is the penalty what is there to lose by killing a few police or innocent bystanders along the way.

Say run through a park or playground or how about YOUR house.....

If you REALLY want to see how your system works, go and live in PNG for a while. I suspect you may change your mind.........

[Streets]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

why not try mandatory death sentences

I really hope it's just my sarcasm detector that's broken.

[dylancox]

Originally Posted by castellan

I know of a dude who told me if he is now just plodding along the highway at 140KM/H and he spots cops he is not stopping because he will loss his licence. with the current laws being to strict with speed he said he has to much to lose. so he has it in his head that he is going to run them and take the chance.

He said there is nothing wrong or dangerous with him driving along on a good country road at 140 KM/H in his FPV and they can all go get f ed. (he was really angry about it.) this may of been just pub talk and he was drunk.

So should cops chase some one just because they were exceeding the speed limit. i think not. all that happens is the risk of accidents is increased.

But if it's a stolen car thief murder ect you would have to chase them down to the end of the earth. you just can't let scum like this get away with it at all.

What is the standard operating procedure for pursuit of a car rocketing down a rural road/highway with little to no traffic? At what point do the cops call it off? Rural police resources are very limited, I would imagine...

[kim and james]

Originally Posted by Highway

Or call in the Air Force! I am sure them fly boys would like to test out there new F/A 18's on some moving #@(4wits as a target.
means stop

The RAAF boys at Williamtown actually got into trouble doing this exact thing a few years back. As practice they were putting missile lock on unsuspecting motorists in the Forster region. Harmless enough one would think, they weren't loaded, but they all got a reprimand for their antics. Having just driven from Phillip Island to Port Macquarrie and return within the past week I can certainly vouch for the fact that there are motorists out there where a live fire exercise would be warranted !!!

[castellan]

I have come across noobs who genuinely believe if you exceed the speed limit on even a good highway your a accident just waiting to happen.

And i believe that people who believed that nonsense are the ones who are usually just foolish incompetent wind bags.

I seen idiots like them deliberately try to kill others on the road.
By jumping on the brakes.
Swerving out in front of an car overtaking
Speeding up if someone tries to over take.
They drive as tho there the law and they will play games with truck drivers like slowing down at the bottom of a hill and they always want to be in front of the truck as they ponce around.

[Jim Goose]

People who commit road rage are not likely to care if your speeding or not....

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

People who commit road rage are not likely to care if your speeding or not....

Why do they commmit road rage.

[platinumXR]

Originally Posted by ThaFlash

big damo i thought they were gonna bring in mandatory jail for people running away from the police, that was about a year ago.... it might be on the books though I can't find anything on it.

Skyes Law, and it's spelled GAOL...just to be a pedant

Crimes Act N.S.W. 1900 No 40 (Current version for 7 December 2010 to date)

51B Police pursuits

(1) The driver of a vehicle:
(a) who knows, ought reasonably to know or has reasonable grounds to suspect that police officers are in pursuit of the vehicle and that the driver is required to stop the vehicle, and
(b) who does not stop the vehicle, and
(c) who then drives the vehicle recklessly or at a speed or in a manner dangerous to others,
is guilty of an offence.

Maximum penalty:

(a) in the case of a first offence—imprisonment for 3 years, or
(b) in the case of an offence on a second or subsequent occasion—imprisonment for 5 years.


(2) In this section, vehicle has the same meaning as it has in section 52A.

[STINKY NINJA]

Originally Posted by castellan

Why do they commmit road rage.

Because most of the time people who commit roadrage are dealing with dozy incompetent drivers who arent aware of thier surroundings and cause serious aggravation by their misattention to the road and other drivers around them.
I agree that road rage has a deep seeded cause which can go way beyond driving but if people were better drivers and paid serious attention to their surroundings it wouldnt happen nearly as much.
People who cause roadrage are that bad at driving they dont even realise they are doing it which makes it even worse.
And i recently have had unmarked cop cars speed up flat out behind me and tailgate me trying to entrap me into doing something stupid.
So the cops can encite road rage but nobody else can because they are the grey area they call the law...
And why should people obey the law and drive sensibly when the coppers run amuck and drive like complete idiots as an example to us all

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by stinkydogs

Because most of the time people who commit roadrage are dealing with dozy incompetent drivers who arent aware of thier surroundings and cause serious aggravation by their misattention to the road and other drivers around them.
I agree that road rage has a deep seeded cause which can go way beyond driving but if people were better drivers and paid serious attention to their surroundings it wouldnt happen nearly as much.
People who cause roadrage are that bad at driving they dont even realise they are doing it which makes it even worse.
And i recently have had unmarked cop cars speed up flat out behind me and tailgate me trying to entrap me into doing something stupid.
So the cops can encite road rage but nobody else can because they are the grey area they call the law...
And why should people obey the law and drive sensibly when the coppers run amuck and drive like complete idiots as an example to us all

^^^ never driven like an idiot.......

[flappist]

Originally Posted by platinumXR

Skyes Law, and it's spelled GAOL...just to be a pedant

Crimes Act N.S.W. 1900 No 40 (Current version for 7 December 2010 to date)

51B Police pursuits

(1) The driver of a vehicle:
(a) who knows, ought reasonably to know or has reasonable grounds to suspect that police officers are in pursuit of the vehicle and that the driver is required to stop the vehicle, and
(b) who does not stop the vehicle, and
(c) who then drives the vehicle recklessly or at a speed or in a manner dangerous to others,
is guilty of an offence.

Maximum penalty:

(a) in the case of a first offence—imprisonment for 3 years, or
(b) in the case of an offence on a second or subsequent occasion—imprisonment for 5 years.


(2) In this section, vehicle has the same meaning as it has in section 52A.

That, I believe, is a good workable law, plenty of room for the Magistrate to come down as hard or lenient as necessary yet still has flexibility to ensure that innocent people are not unfairly treated.

The offendee must a) know the police are there (i.e. not just be "chased" from 5km behind or followed by a helicopter) b) not stop and c) drive dangerously.

If all of the above boxes are ticked then the Magistrate can impose a suitable sentence.

This is the way it should be.......mandatory is black and white in a world of grey (or pink in Sydney).

[STINKY NINJA]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

^^^ never driven like an idiot.......

I am a very aware driver with a full license(all my points) and im not scared to speak out about bad drivers,cops included.
Not only are the coppers bad drivers that try to incite violence and bad driving,they will tazer you at the drop of a hat here in w.a.
The only thing that should be mandatory is the drug testing of police officers before they go on duty so we can all be safer knowing we arent being pulled up and having our driving critisised/ being abused by a crack/meth head police officer on a powertrip.
You may disagree with me but i tend to look at the problem from the other point of view, the one where the cops arent immediately right.
The police these days are a lying bunch of drug addicted, bad attitude renegades just like the ones they chase around and they will always have their sympathasisers that think they can do know wrong(get down on their level yeah)
I tried to make a complaint about a cop recently and it was unbelievable how much they tried to talk me out of it and let me know how hard it will be for me "but hey were only here to help" they said
They are only here to help........

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by stinkydogs

I am a very aware driver with a full license(all my points) and im not scared to speak out about bad drivers,cops included.
Not only are the coppers bad drivers that try to incite violence and bad driving,they will tazer you at the drop of a hat here in w.a.
The only thing that should be mandatory is the drug testing of police officers before they go on duty so we can all be safer knowing we arent being pulled up and having our driving critisised/ being abused by a crack/meth head police officer on a powertrip.
You may disagree with me but i tend to look at the problem from the other point of view, the one where the cops arent immediately right.
The police these days are a lying bunch of drug addicted, bad attitude renegades just like the ones they chase around and they will always have their sympathasisers that think they can do know wrong(get down on their level yeah)
I tried to make a complaint about a cop recently and it was unbelievable how much they tried to talk me out of it and let me know how hard it will be for me "but hey were only here to help" they said
They are only here to help........

your a champ.. whos the one off their head on the meth... just remember all of that if you ever need to call 000....

[FGII-XR6]

who cares if they die as long as they don't take other road users out with their stupidity. these guys are criminal scum who don't care if they put the rest of us in danger trying to out run the police.
I don't shed a tear when I hear one of them has commited suicide in this manner. The death of each one of them makes the road a safer place as they can't do it again.
The police have hard enough job as it is with out civil libitarians bleating about the rights of criminal scum. If they die in a police pursuit it should be ruled a suicide and the police involved not tgraumatised by another inquisition

Originally Posted by Resurrection

It seems to be a regular occurance that driver's attempting to escape from police crash AFTER the police call off the chase because they state it was geting too dangerous to continue.

These stories are hard to believe because if a driver has evaded police they wouldn't need to drive as dangerously as when they were being pursued. So why do the police reports often state that they came across the crashed vehicle a short time after they called off the chase?

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/ca...227-198jw.html

I am not against the police doing their job. They have a difficult decision to make as some people will put their lives and those of others at risk just to get away.

I've seen the aftermath of a police chase gone wrong. In the early 90s we were hanging around the centre of Dandenong one night when a couple of police cars with lights blazing tore past us. Being young and bored we took of after them and arrived a few minutes later at a crash scene. A police divvy van had just cleaned up a taxi at an intersection. The police quickly shut down the area.

So what are people's opinions about these "crashed after the pursuit was called off" reports?

[dags41v]

hmmmm crak/meth head police officers?? I get more grief from P plate commodore drivers trying to goad me into a drag ..... why???..... I think the police have more pressing issues to deal with than forcing people to do the wrong thing.

Speed cameras would be one example, dont speed = no fine yet how much do they earn???

[mongoloid]

As far as the original post goes... I think the question was a reasonable one which i think alluded to this

"how often do crashes occur during a pursuit, only to be reported as though the pursuit had ended beforehand".

An interesting one that deserves some discussion.

[STINKY NINJA]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

your a champ.. whos the one off their head on the meth... just remember all of that if you ever need to call 000....

No need to get personal, maybe you should go have a cup of tea.
Im making general comments about the police force and what they have been up to and you think it is pointed at you,the cops have been getting done for being on meth at work, they have been tazing people left and right and there is an inquest or similar into that, im not just making it up,when did you last watch the news buddy?
And it is directly related to the original post, maybe i can slag off at people if i become a donating member too...

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by stinkydogs

No need to get personal, maybe you should go have a cup of tea.
Im making general comments about the police force and what they have been up to and you think it is pointed at you,the cops have been getting done for being on meth at work, they have been tazing people left and right and there is an inquest or similar into that, im not just making it up,when did you last watch the news buddy?
And it is directly related to the original post, maybe i can slag off at people if i become a donating member too...

your off ya head.. go have a sleep........

[MO]

Time for the chill pill ppl. Keep it on topic please.

[WMD351]

A long time ago a copper in Vic told me of a chase he was involved in.
He was pursuing an XD with a badly smoking motor that wouldn't last much longer, and the driver took to the West Gate Fwy and started heading up the bridge. The copper crapped himself because he suspected the driver might get to the top of the bridge and jump.
He then told me that once the lights came on the pursued was considered to be in custody, and if he jumped while the disco was flashing, it would be classed as a death in custody.
Death in custody = bad.
Very messy investigation follows for the police involved because of stupid rules!

And mandatory sentencing, an absolute crock being pushed by short sighted governments wanting to be seen to do something and looking for some cheap publicity.
They're an shockingly blunt instrument that can easily do more harm than good.
Since it's started to become more prevalent, the courts have had to start handing out more and more wholly suspended sentences, and now the brilliant Vic government is pandering to the public outrage about to many people not going to prison and looking to shut the gate on wholly suspended deals as well.
Forget about taking into account the facts relating to what has actually happened, just lock people up for the hell of it!
Of course none of this would be happening if the judiciary hadn't been such a bunch of softy dills for so long in the first place.

For the record, I like the American system. If somebody runs, you take 'em down ASAP. End it. Full stop.