Will a FWD Falcon mean the death of the I6?

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Paxton

No. The I6 is dead.

^^^^^^^^ This

[Bossxr8]

Even if Falcon stayed RWD it would be V6. Numbers are just too low to keep it viable. When the BA was released we were building over 500 a day 6 days a week. Now we are going down to around 180 5 days a week but usually 4 days a week due to down days. Even when they wanted to switch to the V6 a few years ago we were making over 320 a day, possibly more, can't remember.

That is a massive drop. 4 cylinder ecoboost will probably wipe out any potential increases the LPi engine may add later on too so its not good.

TDV6 Territory will account for a few hundred less a month soon, hence the down balance.

[Chilliman]

Yes the Inline-6 is dead any way you cut it - if you love this motor then go out and grab one of the ultimate and the final evolutions of the great Aussie six.

Ironically, if TD V6 Territory and EcoBoost 4cyl Falcon sell well, it may just keep RWD Falcon alive, and more importantly local manufacture of Falcon, but it will also hasten the death of the Inline-six.

Put it this way - if you are a firm supporter of an Australian made RWD Falcon, then you must accept that the inline-six will be the sacrificial lamb.

[stev3n]

Lose the I6 then -
- all cab sales lost
- ute sales drop by 90%
- families with kids on L and P plates avoid(can't drive turbo ecoboost)
- upset all previous I6 buyers
- becomes too expensive to contine RWD falcon platform
- sad day at ford australia

[Seduce XR6]

Forget FWD six, what we need is an AWD supercharged GT :P

[Burnout]

A FWD falcon will cost more than the I6 - it will cost FoA the falcon.........

[Chilliman]

Originally Posted by stev3n

Lose the I6 then -
- all cab sales lost
- ute sales drop by 90%
- families with kids on L and P plates avoid(can't drive turbo ecoboost)
- upset all previous I6 buyers
- becomes too expensive to contine RWD falcon platform
- sad day at ford australia

I'm a big fan of the I6 and I'll be one of those getting my hands on the last of the Aussie inlines but I'm also a realist and if its a choice between an FWD drive Falcon and a RWD Falcon, both options excluding the I6, I'll choose the RWD Falcon.

In response to your points:

- I think Ford have been trying to move away from taxi packs but with the amount of Hybrid Toyota Prius taxis I've seen popping up, the EcoBoost 4 could end up on the cabbies shopping list after they've passed through the fleets and Govt car pools. (alot of Falcon taxis around here are purchsed second hand and converted to LPG anyway)
- I think Ranger is the bigger threat to the Ute.
- they can drive a 3.5L V6 Falcon if the rules don't accomodate the EcoBoost 4, but don't count out the rules being specifically changed to include EcoBoost.
- I am a previous I6 buyer many times over and while I will be sad to see the inline go, I'd be more upset if we end up with an FWD import!
- Global engines (V6 and EcoBoost) made in the hundreds-of-thousands, rather than tens-of-thousands (inline-six), will mean a RWD Falcon that is cheaper to make and therefore more likely to continue
- it will be a sadder day if Ford Australia ceases local manufacture and imports an FWD Falcon replacement

[jpd80]

There's still five years on this RWD platform and anything is possible but, I would think that
tightening fuel economy requirements will see the I-6 fall in popularity and possibly be
replaced by V6 diesel with 30% increase in fuel economy, that would be a good thing for sure.
And for the power freaks, the Ecoboost V6 is already making 270 Kw and 560 nm.

In the next five years, life ain't so bad....stop worrying what might be in 5-6 years and live now.

A Mondeo/Fusion with AWD and 270 Kw V6 Ecoboost would be a wicked ride...

[Elks]

Originally Posted by 870-cse

Yes Ford Falcon will use the I6 in FWD mode. The 2015 Falcon will be 2.3 metres wide.

Cool, 4 person bench seat in a ute,,,,

[drew`SEVNT5]

The sky is falling!!!

[drew`SEVNT5]

Originally Posted by stev3n

Lose the I6 then -
- all cab sales lost Why? They are using more and more hybrid Camry/Prius, so obviosly aren't against the new tech of I4T/V6/V6TD
- ute sales drop by 90% Why? Ute buyers don't seem to particularly care about small capacity turbo motors, hence the million Japanese utes wandering about
- families with kids on L and P plates avoid(can't drive turbo ecoboost) L Platers can learn in any car, and by P Plates, 99% of them have there own car
- upset all previous I6 buyers The numbers of which are dwindeling, and the percentage that would actually care?
- becomes too expensive to contine RWD falcon platform Proof? The whole reason for I4T/V6/V6TD is to reduce costs
- sad day at ford australia [COLOR=Red]Just like the old dog that has been in the family for years, sure its sad, but it is for the best[COLOR]

Replies in Red.

[Bobman]

Haha. People were saying the I6 was dead years ago too.

However one thing is for sure, if the Falcon turns into a FWD V6 then I hope no-one buys it and Ford of Australia becomes a thing of the past like Leyland did in the UK.

They only bring these problems on themselves and anyone buying a "fake" Falcon will be a silly person indeed.

[prydey]

hands up all those who have driven a MODERN fwd vehicle? and of those, how many from the ford stable?

from most reports, the mondeo is a very good car. its dimensions are extremely similar to falcon and its only got a 4cyl up front. an xr5t mondeo seems to have more than adequate performance for 85% of the population if there wasn't a falcon available.

technology these days cancels out almost all downsides of an older fwd vehicle.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by prydey

hands up all those who have driven a MODERN fwd vehicle? and of those, how many from the ford stable?

from most reports, the mondeo is a very good car. its dimensions are extremely similar to falcon and its only got a 4cyl up front. an xr5t mondeo seems to have more than adequate performance for 85% of the population if there wasn't a falcon available.

technology these days cancels out almost all downsides of an older fwd vehicle.

Look at the track and wheelbase of the Mondeo, near identical to Falcon,
The big difference being that the sides of the car slope in more than Falcon
reducing the available hip and shoulder room by a couple of inches.

With a different top hat similar to Falcon, AWD and 2.0 Ecoboost engine,
the next Fusion/Mondeo promises to be a rather formidable opponent to
a RWD Falcon. The world is changing and unless FoA takes on board what
technology is now at its disposal, a really great opportunity may well slip
through their fingers - diesel, hybrid, AWD, I-4 and V6 engines in NA and EB.

^^^^^ Weigh all of that up against remaining with a RWD Falcon tied to
the Mustang for it powertrain, electrical systems and possibly suspensions.
While we don't need AWd when there's RWD, that decision comes at a cost
in terms of vehicle choice, variety and potential fuel economy savings.

I will be very interesting to see which way FoA jumps, no decision yet but
there's also no guarantee that the next big car will be built here either.
Ford is not Holden and the gap between the two appears to be widening.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by Ford_The_Win

If they do switch to FWD, I hope to god they drop the Falcon nameplate.

I'd prefer to keep the name falcon going. it's the longest continual model name in the world, and that's something worth keeping. once it's gone it wont come back.

[mac_man_luke]

IMO bring on the ecoboost V6

[Road_Warrior]

Lots of flat out guessing here:

http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2011...t-taurus-23428

The next generation Ford Taurus -- the car that threatens to eventually replace the homegrown Falcon sedan -- could be designed in Australia.

Ford Australia's design department will be one of seven styling studios in the Ford world to submit a blueprint for the car maker's new global large sedan, which is expected to share much of its structure and componentry -- and possibly become an identical twin -- with the next Falcon.

Under the 'One Ford' global car policy, both the Taurus (pictured) and Falcon are likely to become much more closely related when the new models for both vehicles come on line some time in 2016 or beyond.

It is not yet clear where they will be made, but the Carsales Network understands that Ford is looking to continue to build the left-hand-drive Taurus in North America and the right-hand-drive version of its large car in Australia.

Speaking at the launch of Ford's latest global vehicle, the Focus small car, the head of design for Ford in North America, Moray Callum, told the Carsales Network: "Absolutely [Ford Australia] will be part of the process, they're already very much involved. They know how to design sedans -- and good looking sedans -- and we harness our talent wherever it is in the Ford world. There's an amazing capability in Australia, particularly in large cars. We've asked Melbourne to submit early proposals, but to be frank Australia is involved in almost everything we do, even on models that aren't sold in Australia."

Callum said Ford Australia was in the process of hiring more designers as the company became more global in its use of styling and engineering talent.

The Carsales Network understands that the Taurus and Falcon replacements are next in the queue in Ford's global car strategy -- after the next generation mid-size car is complete.

Ford Australia has already submitted design proposals for the successor to the Mondeo (in Europe) and Fusion (in North America), two vehicles that will become one within the next two years. The design of that model has progressed from concept to the production phase, but Ford has not yet revealed which of its studios around the world submitted the winning proposal.

"We're not saying for now, but I'm sure credit will be given where it's due," said Callum, the former head of design at Mazda and brother of Ian Callum, Jaguar's styling chief.

He said Ford design around the world was becoming "more cohesive".

"These days it's hard to pick where some of the early sketches have come from, all the studios around the world are really starting to talk a similar design language."

In addition to Ford Australia's Broadmeadows design centre, the six other main design studios in the Ford world are located in Dearborn Michigan, Irvine California, Cologne Germany, Dunton England, Shanghai China, and South America.

"This is the new Ford," he said. "We go to where the best talent is, no matter where it is in the Ford world. We're very lucky to have talented designers in all corners of the globe."

However:

Ford Australia has already submitted design proposals for the successor to the Mondeo (in Europe) and Fusion (in North America), two vehicles that will become one within the next two years. The design of that model has progressed from concept to the production phase, but Ford has not yet revealed which of its studios around the world submitted the winning proposal.

Blam - it's already been done because the next gen Taurus is supposed to share this platform as well.

[Nikked]

I6 is dead no matter what, old news, move along.


Redundant thread.

[duaned]

Why dont they solve the engine dilemma and place the V8 as the standard engine? Supercharged only for FPV? (as is now). No need for a V6! Let the petrol misers have the mondeo diesel! Let us have the Falcon as a V8 RWD only and this will also keep a lot of p-platers out of the driver's seat! Arh, wishful thinking!

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by drew`SEVNT5

The sky is falling!!!

But this time it will happen. The numbers we were making years ago when they decided to switch to the V6 were a million times better than what they are now, and that decision was made at a time when FoA had no diesel in Territory or Ecoboost 4 in Falcon, which makes it even worse. One Ford will see all orphan engines killed off, its inevitable.

Especially if they go FWD as its incompatible with I6.

[Elks]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Especially if they go FWD as its incompatible with I6.

Even if they stay RWD (and their is a good business case for a RWD Falc.) the I6 is gone.

It will be replaced by the RWD version of the ecoboost V6 as used in the F150. More HP, less fuel, less emissions, why not. It would be a great engine in a Falcon, and make a good car great.

[drew`SEVNT5]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

But this time it will happen. The numbers we were making years ago when they decided to switch to the V6 were a million times better than what they are now, and that decision was made at a time when FoA had no diesel in Territory or Ecoboost 4 in Falcon, which makes it even worse. One Ford will see all orphan engines killed off, its inevitable.

Especially if they go FWD as its incompatible with I6.

My point is, people on here are getting upset over things 99% of falcon drivers couldn't give two shits about.

[boss351c]

for sure

[388cube_edxr8]

I would rather they not continue to call it a Falcon if it goes FWD or loses the I6. If it doesn't have at least four litres of Australian Muscle it's not a Falcon.

It's not just sentimentality. The new NotFalcon, whatever it is, may well be a good car, but to call it a Falcon and hope nobody notices it's a completely different car is deceitful and downright disrespectful.

If we get a NotFalcon, all the enthusiasts will flip to Holden in a heartbeat, myself included. Most here can agree that brand loyalty is instilled into us at a young age by our parents, usually fathers. It will be only a few years before Generation Z are employed. All the car enthusiasts will naturally be drawn towards the positions that entail company cars. When the fleet needs updating, where are they going to look? 1). Ford, because they can import a good product
2).The Japs, because they are cheap albeit insomnia-curing
3). Holden, for the Commodore, a locally built product that their Dad says is the best thing on 4 wheels since Ford was invaded by the Americans back in 2015.

My plan is to go and buy the last incarnation of the I6T Falcon in 2015 or whenever it is, trailer it home and put it in the shed under a cover. That's going to be worth a fortune in a few years when FoA consists of a dealer network and a warehouse at the docks.

Then I'm going straight to Holden for a Commodore with 6 hood scoops and an American sourced 8.6 Litre pushrod V8, because that's going to be about as Australian as it gets.

By then the "Epic Fails... Car Related" thread will be 1200 pages long and be mostly full of Ford logos.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by duaned

Why dont they solve the engine dilemma and place the V8 as the standard engine? Supercharged only for FPV? (as is now). No need for a V6! Let the petrol misers have the mondeo diesel! Let us have the Falcon as a V8 RWD only and this will also keep a lot of p-platers out of the driver's seat! Arh, wishful thinking!

Wow if you in charage the falcon would have been dead in the 80's!

[Flat Top]

i think the issue is gonna be FWD or RWD. I have to say I was initially impressed with the Mondeo i bought 2 years ago, but have had it for 40k im not that impressed with the road noise that has developed . I have changed to a softer tyre but the Australian road surfaces seem to bear out my preference for a RWD drive train. Ford Better wake up? I have had similar conversations with Focus owners, who are looking at VWs ??next time

The I6 motor i am sure can be developed if global HQ wanted at a reasonable cost but the drive train will surely govern its direction.
Can't see a lot of Falcon Ute Owners switching to T6's (comfort). Now im just a simple Ford Customer , so im gonna be interested in the new Locally Built vehicles with Diesel and Smaller Turbo 2.0L offerrings in the falcon later this year . Dunno what they are gonna do beyond 2015 - neither do I ?

[jpd80]

I love how the V8 performance and RWD aficionados think they speak for the rest of the new Falcon buyers.
"If I can't buy an new V8 Falcon, me and my 1500 mates will go to Holden..."

If you haven't guessed yet, Ford is calling the V8 buyer's bluff by saying put up or shut up.
I'm betting that FPV V8 sales will tank in the next 2 years as people switch to something else...
Those people that really want a sub $50,000 V8 sedan will be off to Holden and Ford won't stop them.

This is just the way I see the market going, V8 buyers
will be gifted product from on high but will leave anyway...

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by prydey

hands up all those who have driven a MODERN fwd vehicle? and of those, how many from the ford stable?

from most reports, the mondeo is a very good car. its dimensions are extremely similar to falcon and its only got a 4cyl up front. an xr5t mondeo seems to have more than adequate performance for 85% of the population if there wasn't a falcon available.

technology these days cancels out almost all downsides of an older fwd vehicle.

I've not driven a Mondeo, but I previously had a Mazda6, and have driven more Magnas than I can poke a stick at. They are not that bad to drive, and the benefits in interior space speak for themselves.

Ford in Australia is dead and competing with Nissan and Subaru without the Falcon/Territory combination, but I just can't see them continuing with the I6. From all reports, the V6 Falcon wasn't so bad before, and I don't anticipate it being terrible this time around either.

[Road_Warrior]

A next gen car will obviously be designed with the corporate engine lineup in mind - no recessed firewall or jutting radiator support to accommodate it. Should shave quite a few kilos off the kerb weight of the car too, being an all alloy motor (the D35).

I would imagine the cooking models (XT, G6) will become FWD. Still doesnt explain why Detroit is so keen to make the Ecoboost 4 work in a RWD car though.

[Chilliman]

Originally Posted by Flat Top

i think the issue is gonna be FWD or RWD. I have to say I was initially impressed with the Mondeo i bought 2 years ago, but have had it for 40k im not that impressed with the road noise that has developed . I have changed to a softer tyre but the Australian road surfaces seem to bear out my preference for a RWD drive train. Ford Better wake up? I have had similar conversations with Focus owners, who are looking at VWs ??next time

From the inital test drives of the new Focus it seems that they've sorted the road noise problem - it was extensively bench marked against the Audi A3 and all testers so far have commented on a marked improvement in refinement over the current Focus.