FG2 and beyond ...When does it arrive ?

[tezxr8man]

Originally Posted by csv8

What must FORD do to sell the FG 2 ?? low % rate ? capped price servicing ? 5 year 200,000km warranty ? ????? they don't seem to take notice of what the opposition are
doing, what if the FG 2was available on 5%, $150 fixed price servicing, 5yr 200,000km warranty as standard.??? it might get some punters thru the door and a sale?????

I'd Have to say look at the dealerships for a start, whether you're buying an FPV or Focus i know from experience that my local dealership is shocking, with dad, BF super pursuit he gets no service and when he does the people working on his car never get it right the first time, with my sister owning a focus and having it back four times to stop the taillights from leaking is rediculous especially when they treat you like an idiot

i do think the worst thing for falcon sales would be when someone wants to update a BF superpursuit to a 335 GTP and the sales manager won't let someone take one for a test drive because it might be driven harder than normal

There are too many people who won't buy a ford because of the place where they have to buy them from

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by naddis01

I honestly can't see how they can charge more for the Ecoboost. Yes it sounds like a great motor but I can't think of any cars where the smaller (petrol) motor with less power and torque commands a price premium.

Turboed, direct injection, all alloy. Its a high tech engine that Ford feel justifies a higher price tag.

Early comments by whoever was president at the time suggested $1000-1500 premium, but with the aussie dollar a lot higher it will probably be less now.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The Ecoboost 4 will be priced higher than the I6, maybe $1000 or so, and it won't be available as a manual.

$1000 thats perfectly acceptable considering if you look at the price of other manufacturers with turbo diesel options and the price rises by a few thousand.

Shame about the manual, I probably wouldn't be able to legally drive one anyway because of P plate laws, unless it had a power to weight ratio of under 100KW/tonne, then you could apply for an exemption here in Vic.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Turboed, direct injection, all alloy. Its a high tech engine that Ford feel justifies a higher price tag.

Early comments by whoever was president at the time suggested $1000-1500 premium, but with the aussie dollar a lot higher it will probably be less now.

Yes I understand that it is a great motor up there with the latest tech. However if you step back and look at it without the Ford badge, would you pay more for the smaller motor with less power and torque that uses a little less fuel? It just doesn't sound right to me. I bought a diesel car last year, not because it uses less fuel than the equivalent petrol model, but because it had more power and torque than the petrol as well as the better economy. If that wasn't the case I wouldn't have bought the diesel. The same would apply for me to a petrol motor. Why pay more and get less? That is the marketing hurdle Ford will have to overcome.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by naddis01

I honestly can't see how they can charge more for the Ecoboost. Yes it sounds like a great motor but I can't think of any cars where the smaller (petrol) motor with less power and torque commands a price premium.

Hybrid is over priced but sold at a premium, LPG was sold as a premium.

[Bobman]

I can see the LPGLi being more efficient than the 4 cylinder, but time will tell.

Hope more people buy the new LPG model though. Keep supporting the local product!

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by csv8

What must FORD do to sell the FG 2 ?? low % rate ? capped price servicing ? 5 year 200,000km warranty ? ????? they don't seem to take notice of what the opposition are
doing, what if the FG 2was available on 5%, $150 fixed price servicing, 5yr 200,000km warranty as standard.??? it might get some punters thru the door and a sale?????

The financing and fixed servicing costs is interesting. If they did what you suggested, that might very well sway me to buy a Falcon now, instead of waiting to see what FGII brings. Even after FGII its not a done deal, but that fianacing would.

Makes sense, but where do they get the money? Dealers have so few customers now that servicing is their lifeblood. Yes I know its always been the most profitable side of the business, but at this point it probably is close to being the only profitable side of the business.

Ford Australia have been broke for years, as evidenced by their slow model releases and duck and cover approach to warranty and engineering faults in their cars.

Still if Ford US threw them a lifeline with the costs of such a deal, they might well sell a lot of cars.

Dan

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by naddis01

Yes I understand that it is a great motor up there with the latest tech. However if you step back and look at it without the Ford badge, would you pay more for the smaller motor with less power and torque that uses a little less fuel? It just doesn't sound right to me. I bought a diesel car last year, not because it uses less fuel than the equivalent petrol model, but because it had more power and torque than the petrol as well as the better economy. If that wasn't the case I wouldn't have bought the diesel. The same would apply for me to a petrol motor. Why pay more and get less? That is the marketing hurdle Ford will have to overcome.

Its like paying more for a BMW 320i than a BMW 335i because it uses less fuel. Or paying more for a V6 Calais than a V8 Calais because it uses less fuel.

The Ecoboost needs to be the standard engine, with the I6 as an option. But Ford are stuck as they need to pump out enough I6s to keep the factory going.

We all know the Ecoboost is a fantastic engine, but I dont know how the market will react. My gut is saying that it wont be good, the fact Ford dont even mention private buyers in their releases over it means that even they realise it going to be a hard sell.

I see a lot of problems with its positioning...

*Big Falcon fleets will buy LiLPG as its the cheapest to run.
*Private buyers will not pay to downsize for a loss of power and torque
*Rental buyers will continue to buy the I6 as its the cheapest
*4 cylinder fleets have downsized, the remaining will see the Hybrid camry as very attractive alternative (and cheaper) and even this vehicle with 6.1litre consumption is struggling (hint hint Ford).

The remaining market I see is the Commodore fleet market, but with the Ecoboost being more expensive and many buyers being price-sensitive, will they switch over? Also the new dedicated LPG Commodore is being released soon so who knows how it goes.

I still maintain the EcoBoost looks fantastic on paper, Im just concerned how the market will accept it, after all, some of the best products dont end up being sales successes.

I hope it goes well the new engine may give the Falcon a new lease on life and the product itself will bring new buyers to the fold rather than split the exisiting fleet market.

[dave289]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Its like paying more for a BMW 320i than a BMW 335i because it uses less fuel. Or paying more for a V6 Calais than a V8 Calais because it uses less fuel.

The Ecoboost needs to be the standard engine, with the I6 as an option. But Ford are stuck as they need to pump out enough I6s to keep the factory going.

We all know the Ecoboost is a fantastic engine, but I dont know how the market will react. My gut is saying that it wont be good, the fact Ford dont even mention private buyers in their releases over it means that even they realise it going to be a hard sell.

I see a lot of problems with its positioning...

*Big Falcon fleets will buy LiLPG as its the cheapest to run.
*Private buyers will not pay to downsize for a loss of power and torque
*Rental buyers will continue to buy the I6 as its the cheapest
*4 cylinder fleets have downsized, the remaining will see the Hybrid camry as very attractive alternative (and cheaper) and even this vehicle with 6.1litre consumption is struggling (hint hint Ford).

The remaining market I see is the Commodore fleet market, but with the Ecoboost being more expensive and many buyers being price-sensitive, will they switch over? Also the new dedicated LPG Commodore is being released soon so who knows how it goes.

I still maintain the EcoBoost looks fantastic on paper, Im just concerned how the market will accept it, after all, some of the best products dont end up being sales successes.

I hope it goes well the new engine may give the Falcon a new lease on life and the product itself will bring new buyers to the fold rather than split the exisiting fleet market.

The difference between the I6 and the ecoboost turbo, would be almost like comparing the I6T with the xr8 , one has 2 less cylinders and a turbo. But while for many years the xr8 was always about $5,000 more than the turbo 6 the gap between them now is marginal and almost the same I believe. The ecoboost should not be priced higher than the inline 6 , if anything it should be priced similiar or less , as in the same way as xr6t against xr8 , and then let the people decide. I would find the decision to buy the ecoboost over the I6 much harder when they want to charge more for it. I thought the whole idea was to be competitive in the market place and maybe increase sales. The marketing department needs to look at this more carefully, people will have a hard enough time excepting a four cylinder falcon as it has never been done before, and then to ask more than the six will make it harder to except again. We know the four cylinder commodore did'nt work many years ago but that was mainly from the extreme lack of power which should not be the case with the falcon hopefully. Time will tell I guess, very intresting to see how this goes in the sales department and also on the road.

[Bobman]

How do we really know that this ECOboost will be economical? The Falcon is the heaviest it's ever been. I really think real-world figures wouldn't be that different from the I6.

As above, the four cylinder Commodore failed miserably as did the 3.2 litre EA. Only time will tell, but a 4 cylinder engine in a large car (turbo or not) could still be sluggish and use more fuel to do the same job as the 6.

[Paxton]

Bobman - the Starfire Commodore, and the 3.2 EA failed, not because they were bad cars, but because they were so under engineered that it wasn't funny. I don't really remember the Starfire Commodore, but the 3.2 EA was its own worst enemy. Not only was it CFI, but it was stuck behind the 3 Speed Auto. If it got EFI, and the 4 Speed auto with the EAII, Ford might have been able to make something of it. As it was (CFI, 3A), it was a dog.

The EcoBoost engine will be done properly. As you know, it is really high tech, with a 6 Speed Auto, and will surprise many people. I think we need to take a deep breath, and not judge an engine we know very little about.

[My poor XF]

Originally Posted by Paxton

Bobman - the Starfire Commodore, and the 3.2 EA failed, not because they were bad cars, but because they were so under engineered that it wasn't funny. I don't really remember the Starfire Commodore, but the 3.2 EA was its own worst enemy. Not only was it CFI, but it was stuck behind the 3 Speed Auto. If it got EFI, and the 4 Speed auto with the EAII, Ford might have been able to make something of it. As it was (CFI, 3A), it was a dog.

The EcoBoost engine will be done properly. As you know, it is really high tech, with a 6 Speed Auto, and will surprise many people. I think we need to take a deep breath, and not judge an engine we know very little about.

This!!! top post mate.

How about giving it a chance before writing it off. All the negative talk here is just as bad the crap at drive.com.

[Polyal]

Anyone who thinks FoA will release the I4T and it not be good might aswell log off now and not bother coming back...people really think they would release it and it not produce the goods? Early development finds that out..if good then it goes ahead..really simple stuff.

I hope the tezza diesel sells its backside off and it reaches the falcon aswell.

[Bobman]

Originally Posted by My poor XF

This!!! top post mate.

How about giving it a chance before writing it off. All the negative talk here is just as bad the crap at drive.com.

I agree with that. I think it will be a great engine but just hope it's introduction does not see the end of the I6. There should be room for both.

I'm looking forward to driving one though.

[My poor XF]

Originally Posted by Bobman

I agree with that. I think it will be a great engine but just hope it's introduction does not see the end of the I6. There should be room for both.

I'm looking forward to driving one though.

I think one effect the Ecoboost engine will have is to position the I6 as a premium engine. Especially if the 4 pot is aimed predominately at fleet buyers.

I doubt this engine will be the end of the I6, that blow will be dealt by "One Ford".

I think the drive will surprise many.

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by Bobman

I agree with that. I think it will be a great engine but just hope it's introduction does not see the end of the I6. There should be room for both.

I'm looking forward to driving one though.

The death of the I6 is certain, and has nothing to do with the EcoBoost i4. It has everything to do with the Duratec V6, and its EcoBoost cousin.

[fou_bleu]

Originally Posted by Paxton

The death of the I6 is certain, and has nothing to do with the EcoBoost i4. It has everything to do with the Duratec V6, and its EcoBoost cousin.

I have a feeling that the death of the I6 is the counter balance to keeping RWD in future ;)

[Bobman]

The question is - can we trust a modern yank engine in a Falcon workhorse to do all the things that the I6 excelled at like towing, taxi work (high kms), outback trips etc?

Just look at the BOSS V8, Holden's 3.8 & Alloytec and the Gen III as far as those engines are concerned and reliability issues with each. Watching a few videos of repair work on late model American cars sees the engines looking cheap and nasty - like the 1990s Taurus and some of the family hack Chevies.

Hope you guys are right and I am open to it. Will reserve full and final judgement until I've thoroughly tested one

[Struggo]

The EB4 should be priced the same as the I6, the market will then decide.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by My poor XF

This!!! top post mate.

How about giving it a chance before writing it off. All the negative talk here is just as bad the crap at drive.com.

Have a look at the discussion for the last few engines Ford Oz will release. They have all been bagged by the internet 'experts'.

Originally Posted by Bobman

Just look at the BOSS V8,

The US didn't want FPV to continue with this engine. The reliability is tickford/FPV's fault.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by 4RD4TW

I have a feeling that the death of the I6 is the counter balance to keeping RWD in future ;)

Sharing power trains and electrical systems with mustang would save both cars a lot of money,
I know the corporate V6 and V8 are actually funded by F150 but it's kind of cool knowing
that FoA is pioneering the RWD adaptation of the I-4 Ecoboost motor for Falcon and
hopefully other RWD adaptations like Mustang and possibly T6 Ranger....

[flappist]

Actually the FG2 should have at least 200 rear view mirrors, 300 reversing cameras and seats that swivel 180 degrees because based on this thread and for that matter quite a bit of this forum most Falcon enthusiasts are very frightened by the thought of looking forward and prefer to spend all their time looking backwards......

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by vztrt

The US didn't want FPV to continue with this engine. The reliability is tickford/FPV's fault.

Not true, FPP actually wanted the Boss engine for their parts catalog but FPV turned them down.

The decision to use the new 5.0 was completely FoA and Prodrive wanting the latest technology
and the basics of a regular production engine to work with compared to the former 5.4 Boss.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Not true, FPP actually wanted the Boss engine for their parts catalog but FPV turned them down.

Thought they only wanted the head, not the engine itself.

[FPV GTHO]

I thought it was the intake they were after.

[jpd80]

yes, it was the intake they wanted, not the whole engine.

But getting back to the original reply, FoA and Prodrive decided to go with the 5.0 and
developed a S/C version themselves, Ford NA played no part in that decision at all.