Ban P Platers over Easter

[deesun]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

I did hear something interesting on my way home from Maryborough yesterday, a woman noticed that in a multi vehicle accident - 3 of the vehicles were P platers...(two green, one red). I'm not saying they should be banned...just an observation.

Only 2 cars involved and 1 driver was 38, could be a P plater but doubtful. Unborn child was the fatality. An unborn child is counted if the mother is more than 20 weeks.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/p...-1226044948984

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by deesun

Only 2 cars involved and 1 driver was 38, could be a P plater but doubtful. Unborn child was the fatality. An unborn child is counted if the mother is more than 20 weeks.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/p...-1226044948984

Different accident, at Murrumba Downs I think, start of the long weekend.

We turned off just prior to this one happening, have decided to use the back roads due to all the 'hurrying Harry's' on the Bruce. A leisurely drive turns into 6 hours in crap traffic.

Although, back on the topic, I don't see banning P platers over Easter periods or even any other holiday periods of any benefit to anyone.

It's not just P platers, it's everyone - they're in a hurry because they want to get somewhere. It's the 'me-ism' that seems to be at the root of these sorts of issues. People are more concerned about themselves. They're tired so they want to get home, but they don't stop to think about the other people on the road who might want to get home as well, whilst they're busy falling asleep at the wheel, etc.

It's not just inexperience that plays a part in this, but also complacency, so in reality - both ends of the scale are at risk...

[MITCHAY]

I generally avoid driving in holiday seasons just because the driving standards are **** poor across the board. P platers are the least of my worries.

Originally Posted by flappist

I totally agree with not allowing inexperienced lowly skilled drivers on the roads at Easter.

Unfortunately the MAJORITY of inexperienced lowly skilled drivers are those of ALL ages and licensing durations who live in a city, usually take public transport to work and only ever drive to drop the kids off at school, down to the local shops, once a week to the golf club and once or twice a year for a distance of more than 50km.

THEY are the dangerous ones but the problem is THEY don't know it and would not accept it even if they did.

It would be nice if, like pilots, all drivers had log books detailing just how much driving they have done and in what conditions and locations.

X10000. This is why driving at times such as Easter and Xmas is such a nightmare, banning P platers won't do ****

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by russellw

Interestingly, statistics are only kept nationally for the 70+ group so it is hard to know at what age most people choose (or are forced) to surrender them.

What we can say is that as a percentage of the eligible licence holders it is the lowest age group with 61% holding a current licence - slightly less than the under 20 age group which is 63% and well below the 94.5% of the 40-49 age group.

Interestingly, despite their higher life expectancy, only 50% women over the age of 70 still hold a valid licence.

Source: Ausroads 2005 Annual Report (data from 2003).

I can help out on that one. A large proportion of our work comes from the 80+ age group, probably not an exaggeration to suggest about 20%. Of all the 80+ that we go to, at least 50% are in a nursing home (so they don't drive). Of those that are still home it is extremely rare that they are still driving, most no longer drive and have help with daily living. In fact it is considered by us as notable and "very cool" if they still drive.

Sudszy, your example of the bowls club is a very poor one. You are picking an area where the density of driving 80 year olds is at its most dense, even though the 80+ age group is the smaller portion of the bowls club clientele. That is like me saying that no 80+ drive because none at the nursing home do, you have a narrowed and unrealistic perspective.

Besides, your insistence that I am wrong, riding a bike is harder than driving a car because the 80+ age group finds it more difficult is the ultimate in a "straw man" argument.

A straw man is a component of an argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.

Because that age group is such a minute contributor to both the driving and bike riding public, it is a gross misrepresentation of the the truth.

Give it a rest.

[Zero_PSI]

I just say we ban ****, moronic and flat out stupid drivers all the time.

[Franco Cozzo]

I know a problem, everyone wants to get where they're going 5 seconds earlier at any cost, I see it every morning going to work with all these ******* driving dangerously (particularily one guy I see all the time, no fail every morning) tailgating, overtaking over double lines/in a bad spot.

Why the rush to get to work anyways?

Its not even always P platers either, 90% of these people are fully licensed drivers, who tend to be tradesmen.

[93EB_SXR6]

I've spent a bit of time around bowls clubs in my time.
I'd be more worried about old, over confident drivers that drink several (or more) beers before leaving on a Saturday night.
I knew a bloke that was well into his 80s, he drank like a fish and always drove himself home.

I don't know any P platers that do this.

[AWD Chaser]

[quote=russellw]Interestingly, statistics are only kept nationally for the 70+ group so it is hard to know at what age most people choose (or are forced) to surrender them.
[quote]

Rus, here are the licence stats for NSW (as of 31MAR2011). I guess they have to be put against a population stat to mean anything though...

16 54,951
17 71,743
18 78,254
19 77,337
20 78,134
21 76,469
22 77,075
23 76,690
24 77,698
25 81,116
26 83,141
27 85,888
28 88,198
29 89,001
30 87,302
31 87,360
32 88,156
33 88,810
34 89,353
35 90,268
36 95,012
37 95,443
38 101,375
39 102,866
40 97,102
41 94,948
42 92,160
43 89,570
44 89,168
45 90,329
46 93,202
47 96,785
48 97,292
49 95,972
50 93,301
51 89,934
52 88,652
53 87,915
54 84,728
55 82,291
56 80,019
57 78,706
58 77,150
59 74,049
60 74,506
61 72,181
62 71,878
63 72,614
64 68,493
65 59,161
66 57,466
67 52,808
68 47,707
69 45,236
70 43,415
71 40,551
72 38,627
73 36,186
74 33,836
75 29,468
76 26,970
77 24,851
78 23,292
79 21,735
80 21,053
81 18,358
82 16,914
83 14,124
84 11,669
85 9,558
86 7,771
87 5,913
88 4,355
89 3,151
90 2,229
91 1,214
92 874
93 528
94 349
95 163
96 119
97 45
98 24
99 9
100 4
102 1

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Professor_Evans

I've spent a bit of time around bowls clubs in my time.
I'd be more worried about old, over confident drivers that drink several (or more) beers before leaving on a Saturday night.
I knew a bloke that was well into his 80s, he drank like a fish and always drove himself home.

I don't know any P platers that do this.

Yet this person had been driving for over 60 years and has not been killed or maimed in a traffic accident or locked up forever (possibly longer) for repeditive drink driving?

Ah of course, he must always stay 5km/h under the speed limit.........

[deesun]

Originally Posted by flappist

Yet this person had been driving for over 60 years and has not been killed or maimed in a traffic accident or locked up forever (possibly longer) for repeditive drink driving?

Ah of course, he must always stay 5km/h under the speed limit.........

And no one with half a brain nor the club staff who know darn well he does it dobs him in.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by flappist

Yet this person had been driving for over 60 years and has not been killed or maimed in a traffic accident or locked up forever (possibly longer) for repeditive drink driving?

Ah of course, he must always stay 5km/h under the speed limit.........

And all that experience, clean driving record and driving 5 under the limit means 3/5ths of bugger all to the family of 4 he wipes out through impaired judgement and reflexes reduced to a fraction of the general driving public. Surviving previous games of Russian roulette does not make the game a good idea.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by AWD Chaser

Rus, here are the licence stats for NSW (as of 31MAR2011). I guess they have to be put against a population stat to mean anything though...

Thanks for that - I have plotted them against the 2010 population data for NSW.

The first chart for all ages (I've combined anything 100+ to match the population data):



.. where there is a noticeable drop from about 80 onwards.

The second chart takes a closer look at the 70+ age ranges:



.. where the drop is fairly linear - not quite a match for the mortality rate amongst the over 70's which is a slightly more curved line with a heavier bias toward the front end.

Cheers
Russ

[Ben73]

Sudszy and his strawman

[flappist]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

And all that experience, clean driving record and driving 5 under the limit means 3/5ths of bugger all to the family of 4 he wipes out through impaired judgement and reflexes reduced to a fraction of the general driving public. Surviving previous games of Russian roulette does not make the game a good idea.

You, of all people, should know better than to bite on that one

How is the new tonka toy going?

[Ptbl]

Absaloutly ridiculous

[TheInterceptor]

Originally Posted by Ben73

Sudszy and his strawman

Gold!!

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by flappist

You, of all people, should know better than to bite on that one

How is the new tonka toy going?

You know me, I can not control myself with such an attractive lure such as that one, I have to bite it.

I have little doubt you threw it out partly fir my benefit.

[93EB_SXR6]

Originally Posted by Professor_Evans

I've spent a bit of time around bowls clubs in my time.
I'd be more worried about old, over confident drivers that drink several (or more) beers before leaving on a Saturday night.
I knew a bloke that was well into his 80s, he drank like a fish and always drove himself home.

I don't know any P platers that do this.

He used to leave the club rather late at night, I was fourteen at the time (so dad or my brother would drive me home around six pm.) therefore I wasn't in the position to stop him.
The club president was a police officer yet he didn't stop him, he ended up losing his license by driving blind drunk through two trees *sideways* and wrecking his car.
Just to clear that up.
I've stopped people from drink driving before, they always get extremely violent to the point where you're putting yourself in danger by approaching them.
I've offered drunk people a ride home but they usually refuse.
If a person is stoned, they will happily accept (and probably ask to be driven to hungry jacks on the way back LOL), I just simply don't drink as it doesn't interest me so I don't know their reasoning behind drink driving.