What will Holden do regarding Euro III???

[brodfloyd]

I take ur point on the LS2 being more fuel efficient than the LS1, and u are right, but the point i was trying to make is, that it would make more sense if not only cost wise to have a smaller engine, working at an equilibrium of power and economy rather than having severly detuned larger displacement engine

[eb2fairmont]

Holden is making the GenIII Euro III compliant. It was clearly stated by Denny, that they would not release a VZII, nor put in the LS2.

I imagine the Euro III motors will be dropped in as a running change, with little fanfare, just like the last EL Falcons got AU hybrid motors.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by eb2fairmont

Holden is making the GenIII Euro III compliant. It was clearly stated by Denny, that they would not release a VZII, nor put in the LS2.

I imagine the Euro III motors will be dropped in as a running change, with little fanfare, just like the last EL Falcons got AU hybrid motors.

Where was it stated?

So Holden will run the current model VZ for another 12 months?

[brodfloyd]

Originally Posted by eb2fairmont

Holden is making the GenIII Euro III compliant. It was clearly stated by Denny, that they would not release a VZII, nor put in the LS2.

I imagine the Euro III motors will be dropped in as a running change, with little fanfare, just like the last EL Falcons got AU hybrid motors.

That sounds plausable, accept for that unlike the EL falcon's you mention, this model will be on sale for 9 months minimum, and its not gearing up for a change of model (el-AU) and wont the gen 3 will be scrapped within a year once VE arrives accept for in the wagons and utes that dont get updated.

I'm sure Holden would not miss a chance to self-promote especially having the gen 3 Euro 3 compliant in such an environmentally conscious time. Also, its not just a matter of slotting in a new engine is it??? doesnt it need electronic wizardry and doo-dads like the BF (lights that flash up on dash if its been moded, etc) that come with the Euro 3 regulations.

I think it would be weird for holden to not make a VZ2, they love series -2ing things. Even moreso as they havent had an update in a while

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by brodfloyd

I must say im very proud of my thread, it has certainly got ppl talking!!!

MOTOR magazine which does know its stuff most of the time regarding new models said in this months issue that the VE was going to be released in september 2006, pushed back by development freezes and their associated flow on effects from an original February release.

Seems like everyone thinks that the VZ2 will be released with a detuned LS2 6L as the most likely outcome, but having said that, isn't the LS2 already to a certain extent detuned in the current range of HSV's??? For eg, they dont have extractors, and i thought from reading when they released VZ that because of the whole 300kw thing that they had given it a de-tune computer wise. Although, how much do you de-tune a 6 litre V8 before it becomes silly???
1 "gee mate, nice car what is it???"
2 "VZ2 SS"
1 "WOW, whats it got in it???"
2 "a 6 litre LS2 V8, producing a staggering 260 kw"

That sounds silly, but the LS2 is supposed to be the bee's knees as far as performance engines for Holden australia, wouldn't it weaken its image to detune it much, if any???

Imagine if ford released the Boss 235 in BF??? because in making it Euro 3 complian, it lost power. i know that isnt the best example as the LS2 is already Euro 3 compliant, but my point is about decreasing the power of engines, and how it is rarely seen as a good thing by joe public.

I know that the more they detune the engine the better the fuel economy can get, but a 6 litre V8 detuned is still gonna use more petrol than a 5 litre V8 similarly detuned, right??? it weighs more, all that jazz lots of reasons.

As has been said in 8 weeks or less we will all know, I must say tho, i do think it unlikely that holden would not offer a V8, ford learnt that one the hard way.

HSV would throw a total BF ( Fit) if holden did put a detuned LS2 into the SS (and think about it, pov pack executive with a 6 litre V8 option???)

oh well, i sorta hope something happens bad for them, but it wont

I don't see the LS2 in the HSV as being de-tuned, as the highest power version from the Corvette makes about the same power as the Clubsport. They have done nothing to detune it. Sure it doesn't have extractors, but noise compliance might rule that out anyway.

[fairmont1998]

This is fact.
Euro III Alloytech V6 VZs will start production in December. 2500 cars are programmed to be built before the new year.
Euro III Gen IV 6 litre V8 VZs are starting production in January.

[FPV]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I don't see the LS2 in the HSV as being de-tuned, as the highest power version from the Corvette makes about the same power as the Clubsport. They have done nothing to detune it. Sure it doesn't have extractors, but noise compliance might rule that out anyway.

I remember reading about HSV's exclusion of extractors. They said that the sound from the engine is not as suitable for aussies as to americans,i think cause it sounded rough.

[FPV]

Originally Posted by fairmont1998

This is fact.
Euro III Alloytech V6 VZs will start production in December. 2500 cars are programmed to be built before the new year.
Euro III Gen IV 6 litre V8 VZs are starting production in January.

Well thats what i was expecting to happen. Well done HSV,2 lies in 2 years,great record. And for what,to get somemore VZ owners and even then FPV gave them a run for there money with no major upgrades. Seriously you would not expect such a company to handle questions such as this. Whats next, HSV will not build a typhoon competitor?

[Ghiadude]

Originally Posted by fairmont1998

This is fact.
Euro III Alloytech V6 VZs will start production in December. 2500 cars are programmed to be built before the new year.
Euro III Gen IV 6 litre V8 VZs are starting production in January.

youve let the cat out of the bag now dude...whoa!

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by fairmont1998

This is fact.
Euro III Alloytech V6 VZs will start production in December. 2500 cars are programmed to be built before the new year.
Euro III Gen IV 6 litre V8 VZs are starting production in January.

Which models will the Gen 4 go in ie. SS, Calais, Berlina?

[brodfloyd]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Which models will the Gen 4 go in ie. SS, Calais, Berlina?

probably every car that they now option with a V8, including god forbid, the executive model, dangerous

[jabba]

Sorry for the dumb question. But why can't the Gen3 be made euro III compliant.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by jabba

Sorry for the dumb question. But why can't the Gen3 be made euro III compliant.

It can. But is it worth it for Holden to do that or slip in a smaller chev v8?

[brodfloyd]

Originally Posted by jabba

Sorry for the dumb question. But why can't the Gen3 be made euro III compliant.

it could be made to do anything they want it too, but GM has stopped producing them in the states, so unless they plan on casting their own blocks (NOT GONNA HAPPEN) they need to source a new engine

[fairmont1998]

So far I've seen the Gen IV in SS and Calais pilots. Don't recall seeing an SV8 yet.

[XAGSV8]

Originally Posted by fairmont1998

So far I've seen the Gen IV in SS and Calais pilots. Don't recall seeing an SV8 yet.

Do you work for Holden ?

[XplosiveR6]

well if the holdens get a detuned LS2, then HSV are in big trouble, imagine that, buy a SV8 for $40,000 odd, get a chip and exhaust, and your out there beating same powered but heavier HSVs!
Not to mentioned alot of people being put off with having huge 6.0l engines in there executives, it doesnt sound to good with current fuel prices

[fairmont1998]

Originally Posted by GSWXA

Do you work for Holden ?

fairmont1998 hangs head in shame...

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by EF_Dave

well if the holdens get a detuned LS2, then HSV are in big trouble, imagine that, buy a SV8 for $40,000 odd, get a chip and exhaust, and your out there beating same powered but heavier HSVs!
Not to mentioned alot of people being put off with having huge 6.0l engines in there executives, it doesnt sound to good with current fuel prices

You'll notice people have been saying Gen 4, but not specifically LS2...
There are different versions of the Gen 4 avaliable, with different capacities and different power outputs... Id be very surprised if they mucked around detuning the LS2 when there are other solutions but i also think Holden have been caught napping or lack resaearch $$ and are running out of time to get a solution, maybe LS2 is and easy fix till VE?.
It might bite them in the bum though, imagine how FPV owners would feel if you could buy a Falcon XT with a Boss 290 donk.....

[ltd]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

You'll notice people have been saying Gen 4, but not specifically LS2...
There are different versions of the Gen 4 avaliable, with different capacities and different power outputs... Id be very surprised if they mucked around detuning the LS2 when there are other solutions but i also think Holden have been caught napping or lack resaearch $$ and are running out of time to get a solution, maybe LS2 is and easy fix till VE?.

Exactly, and it is precisely why they are now trying to source the ZF gearbox from the Ford. Furthermore, after speaking to somebody formerly in senior management at Holden, I am left to only concur with his opinion that Holden are a mass marketing firm pushing a so called Australian car that is only 30-40% Australian. When I asked him why people love the brand and the car so much he said "because people are programmed to love it, and we reinforce the idea at every opportunity we get through all mediums". For example;

The old 3.8 V6 engine was actually built in mexico, was designed for the Buick range of vehicles and was also designed to be front wheel drive. In the conversion to rear wheel drive, Holden's solution was allegedly that rough that it was the sole cause for so many of them blowing the rear main seal and dumping all of their oil.

[brodfloyd]

Originally Posted by ltd

Exactly, and it is precisely why they are now trying to source the ZF gearbox from the Ford.

Are you saying that holden are/were trying to get ZF 6 speed gearboxes off ford??? Why would they do that??? why not directly off the germans???

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by brodfloyd

Are you saying that holden are/were trying to get ZF 6 speed gearboxes off ford??? Why would they do that??? why not directly off the germans???

...so Ford can make some extra money...no seriously, GM have their own new six speed auto and I would bet Holden will use this considering it is designed to go behind GM V8's and V6's...ZF are going to supply Holden and will build a plant, I think in S.A., to supply steering components I believe (?).

If ZF could also build A6's here that would be fantastic however with Holden's big cost blowouts on VE or more correctly massive cost pressures by changed volumes (decreased due to GM US product planning changes)) to amortise development costs over they probably couldn't afford the ZF A6 anyway. Just look at how many local suppliers Holden has dumped recently, simply because they are going through all their suppliers putting massive pressure for lower components prices or they dump them and go OS. And i also believe that the VE has been "dumbed' down as much as possible, for example like the rear IRS as happened with VT only to have the "control link" put back in VXII once it was deemed necessary from marketing and profits allowed it...not to mention enough complaints from VT-VXi drivers sick of buying new tyres.

[Mozz]

Originally Posted by brodfloyd

probably every car that they now option with a V8, including god forbid, the executive model, dangerous

No commodore executives are available with the V8 option since the VY introduction in back in 2002 - some state police services still use a limited number of V8 executives for traffic branch related work and they find their way onto the second hand market but general Joe Citizen can't buy a commodore exec with V8 option - SV8 model is the entry level V8.

[brodfloyd]

Originally Posted by Mozz

No commodore executives are available with the V8 option since the VY introduction in back in 2002 - some state police services still use a limited number of V8 executives for traffic branch related work and they find their way onto the second hand market but general Joe Citizen can't buy a commodore exec with V8 option - SV8 model is the entry level V8.

Thanks moz, i didnt know that, but the point is still there that if the same engine minus a tune and exhaust is available in a 40000 dollar SV8 and an 80000 dollar HSV, id be pretty ****ed

[ltd]

Originally Posted by brodfloyd

Are you saying that holden are/were trying to get ZF 6 speed gearboxes off ford??? Why would they do that??? why not directly off the germans???

Note THE ford, not from ford. What I mean is, they are after the same model used by ford.