ECU Software update

[ellwa]

Just got off the phone with Alto Ford Artarmon, where I purchased my '09 WS Zetec reagrding software upgrades.

The chap tells me that, even though i bought the car from them, and there is likely a software update, it is going to cost me at least an hours labour, at $132 to find out if there is an update for my automobile.

Way to go alto, bunch of as$hats.

[GoesLikeAZetec]

doesnt it make you want to buy another car from them?

[ellwa]

definitely the opposite if that

[Fiesta_Man69]

Originally Posted by ellwa

The chap tells me that, even though i bought the car from them, and there is likely a software update, it is going to cost me at least an hours labour, at $132 to find out if there is an update for my automobile.

What he has fed you is outright bs.

PCM updates are covered under Ford's warranty. Ford Aus pays the dealership. Updates are done to 'fix' 'issues' with the ECU (that's why its a warranty issue). They aren't done for the hell of it. For example, one of the updates early on was for Fezs was for difficulty starting in cold temperatures.

I have had 4 updates - never paid for one. Yes, they will try the 'we'll only do it if you get the car serviced with us' line, but again, that is absolute bs.

You have to be firm. If they sense they can get $ out of you, that's when the extreme bs will start.

For the second of my updates I called Ford CRC (13FORD): I asked if there were any current, they said there was a new one just released and they organised it with Cumberland Ford to install it. No cost on my part. I suggest you try this; but it really depends who you get on the end of the phone - many who work at this call centre struggle with the concept of 'customer service.'

Failing this - if you don't want to be firm (with the way Ford has treated me previously I'm 'over' firm) - simply tell your local dealer that you Fez 'isn't running right.' They will be obliged to investigate this under the warranty and a PCM update will be part of this (all paid for by Ford Aus, not the dealership and definitely not you).

You can also bet your bottom dollar that if you had gone ahead and paid Alto Ford, they would have still claimed payment from Ford for the job under warranty. Two payments for one job. I'd like to know the legality of this. As would the Australian Tax Office....

Anyways, regardless, you've proven why you should avoid yet another Ford dealer: with such an attitude (and lies), Alto Ford will soon go the way of Dale Ford....

[brydie76]

Daresay it would be ACCC more concerned about the double dipping than the ATO, they would only be worried if one set of the income wasn't being declared.

Another way you can try and get them to comply is to find the warranty policy where it says the ECU updates are included, either in a Ford document or on the Ford Aus website. Print it out/take it with you and show it to the guys at the dealership. Mind you, if you have to do that to get what should be a standard item to get, not sure I would want to go back there...

[trumpy73]

FiestaMan, do you know if there's a way I could check the current version of my PCM. I booked my car in to have it updated (very little resistance, incidentally) and want to take a before and after snapshot to make sure they actually do what they claim.

[Fiesta_Man69]

Sorry, no I do not. I think I've read a thread on here on how you can go thru the menu (like a mechanic would) on the odometer or centre console and I'm guessing it might have it there? I could be wrong. I know there are tricks (like resetting the power windows and diagnostic readouts) that some people know about but I don't.

[Caydus]

Here's [url=http://www.fiestafaction.com/forums/fiesta-buzz/31729-fiesta-secret-menu.html=a thread I found on the issue.[/url]

Originally Posted by Drivenapollo

So i was on youtube and found this video. Not sure of everything that it shows but what you can see is: coolant temp in F and C. You can see your Speed in MPH and KPH. (great for testing your speedo accuracy. Mine was dead on) You can see a digital Tach. Pretty cool stuff. Not sure what everything else is. But check out the video. Works perfect. I have the SES with push start. I just pushed the start button while having my finger on the odomoter button thats in the video, but did not start the car at first. Loaded into the TEST menu. Then started the car and played around!!

None of my information was reset after doing this. Everything is just as it was.


YouTube - Ford fiesta mk7 **Secret menu**

Hope this is a good place to post this. If not please move to correct area. THANKS!

**update a friend of mine found all the descriptions of everything! Here is the site: Unlock the Digital Dash on Fords - Free Information


* 1.Shows a Gauge Sweep
* 2. Shows all 8's on the LCD (LCD TEST)
* 3. Illuminates all the bulbs on the dash
* 4. Displays hexadecimal value for ROM level
* 5. Displays the hexadecimal value for EE level
* 6. Shows DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Code)
* 7. Digital Speedometer - mph
* 8. Digital Speedometer - kph
* 9. N/A
* 10. Digital tachometer
* 11.Fuel volume
* 12. Engine coolant temperature
* 13. Battery voltage
* 14. ABS fail
* 15. Electronic brake distribution (EBD) failure
* 16. Illumination
* 17. Crank Sense

**Here is the video of a 2011 Fiesta in North America doing the secret menu

Video of me accessing the menu in my car: YouTube - 2011 Ford Fiesta Secret Test Menu

Originally Posted by 6769MOPARS

I found some more info from another forum:

Your car may differ from these slightly in content and sequence:

* Gauge test
* All LCD are illuminated
* Indicator bulbs
* ROM level (r----)
* NVM (EEPROM) level (Er----) - this (e.g. Er0206) is often mistakenly assumed to be an error code!
* DTC revision level (dtC985)
* DTC. The DTCs stored will be displayed. The DTC codes will scroll through if there is more than one, or "nOnE" if there are none. See below for interpretation.
* Road speed mph (SP----)
* Road speed km/h (SP----)
* Averaged speed, some sort of hex reading (S60---), probably not useful to the end user.
* Engine speed rpm (TA----)
* Averaged tacho signal, some sort of hex reading (T60---), probably not useful to the end user.
* Odometer counter (od ---)
* Fuel level sensor (F ---, 010 (empty) - 254 (full))
* Averaged fuel level (F60---, range as above)
* Fuel flow rate (FL --, hex counter)
* Fuel percentage/remaining? Hex? (FP --)
* Cylinder head temperature (---C)
* Battery voltage (bAt---)

There are many other pieces of information not of interest to the end user, but you'll eventually get back round to the gauge sweep.
Cluster DTCs

To read the complete list of codes, you'll need a dedicated fault code reader plugged into the diagnostic port. Some codes are available via the cluster, listed under the DTC entry described above. These are:

* 115A (P115A) Low Fuel Level - Forced Limited Power
* 115B (P115B) Low Fuel Level - Forced Engine Shutdown
* 9202 (B1202) Fuel pump and sender unit/fuel level sensor open circuit
* 9204 (B1204) Fuel pump and sender unit/fuel level sensor short to ground
* 9317 (B1317) Battery voltage high (greater than 16V)
* 9318 (B1318) Battery voltage low (less than 10V)
* 9342 (B1342) PCM is defective
* 9342 (B1342) Odometer RESET button sticking
* 9342 (B1342) Trip computer SET button sticking
* 9342 (B1342) NVM memory failure
* A286 (B2286) MODE switch sticking
* 9359 (B1359) Ignition run/accessory circuit failure
* A477 (B2477) Module configuration failure
* D262 (U1262) Communication bus fault (missing CAN messages)
* E196 (U2196) Invalid data for engine RPM (Invalid CAN message)
* E197 (U2197) Invalid data for vehicle speed (Invalid CAN message)
* E198 (U2198) Invalid data for fuel pulse (Invalid CAN message)
* E199 (U2199) Invalid data for engine coolant temperature (Invalid CAN message)
* E200 (U2200) Invalid data for odometer (Invalid CAN message)
* E201 (U2201) Invalid data for ambient temperature (Invalid CAN message)

Don't really have the hex codes for the PCM ROMs though. If everyone could post up their hex codes and if/when Ford has updated their PCM, we could prob build up a database.

[trumpy73]

Thanks mate. I'll give it a whirl when the Mrs gets home. I don't necessarily need the codes as I can make note of whatever it is and check to make sure it's CHANGED afterwards. (assuming the morons don't downgrade the firmware LOL)

[ach]

Originally Posted by trumpy73

FiestaMan, do you know if there's a way I could check the current version of my PCM. I booked my car in to have it updated (very little resistance, incidentally) and want to take a before and after snapshot to make sure they actually do what they claim.

Hi trumpy73 - how did you go with the PCM update? Were you able to verify that the version numbers indeed changed after getting the car back from the dealer?

I'm interested because I've just been told that my dealer that my car's PCM has been updated - but when I go through the "secret menu" as posted above, the hex numbers for the ROM and EE levels are still the same as before.

[GoesLikeAZetec]

thats awesome ach... i'd love to see their faces when you tell them... do it

[trumpy73]

I'm not sure ach. They took the car away and brought it back after 30mins and said they did it. I'm assuming they did something but can't be sure. It hasn't done anything with the pinging but I think it seems to idle a little higher now when I first start it so may be that's the 'cold start' fix.

[ach]

I'm already having some other issues with the dealership, so am trying to sort that out. Haven't brought up the PCM version yet, but that's mainly because I don't have any evidence of anything yet.

Are the ROM and EE version numbers directly related to the PCM version? ie if the PCM is updated, are the ROM and EE numbers supposed to change?

I haven't been able to find an answer to the above question, hence can't accuse them of something without being sure. So any help in this regard would be greatly appreciated.

trumpy73 - did you look at the ROM and EE numbers on the secret menu? (It was super-easy to get to for me, but interpreting the numbers is the hard part.)

[Fiesta_Man69]

Originally Posted by ach

I'm already having some other issues with the dealership, so am trying to sort that out.

Just curious, what might these 'other' issues be?

[ach]

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

Just curious, what might these 'other' issues be?

A couple of things - for example I paid for them to rotate the tyres front-to-rear, but found the next day that they had only swapped one side but not the other. When I rang to ask about it, they weren't able to explain it, and wanted me to bring the car in again to inspect, with no attempt to do any investigation on their end.

I acknowledge that there could well be valid reasons for them to do what they did, but it's so frustrating that they can't explain it, and want me to bring the car in again, like it's just some casual request. They don't seem to understand that most of us work full-time, and having to bring the car in and pick it up during business hours is a major inconvenience.

On top of that, they scratched one of my wheels. Yes, it's fairly minor, but I'm very picky about my car, and I feel I shouldn't have to tolerate them mishandling it. Not quite sure what I can get them to do on this front though - not like I have a chance in h*ll in getting them to replace it.

(Sorry for hijacking the thread... )

[trumpy73]

This is the sort of stuff that stops me from paying a PREMIUM to have anything done at dealerships who claim to have expert technicians etc.

1. 9/10 the mechanic working on your car is no more knowledgeable than the one around the street corner.

2. Chances of scratching/damaging something are just as high. e.g After my first 'free' service I noticed that my 'tow hook' cover on the rear bumper was missing. I really don't know why they would have removed that. Anyway I couldn't prove that it was them so I ended up buying a new one!! So much for a free service.

3. You can't ask an intelligent question and expect an intelligent answer. e.g I asked them what the latest ECU update is supposed to address. The foreman tells me 'I have no idea mate, Ford come up with these things and we just apply them!!'. I'm fairly sure every release would come with some sort of changelog or some literature but they can't be bothered reading (or explaining to customers)

4. I asked the dealership to investigate the pinging issues. They said they performed the ECM update. When I asked if it had resolved the pinging (I knew it wouldn't), their response was 'I don't know mate, just drive it for a while and see how you go'. i.e They hadn't even taken it for a test drive!! I can't be bothered with it any more as I'm planning to sell the car to another unsuspecting sucker. Most drivers don't know what pinging is anyway.

5. Funny story - My dealership has a 'show workshop' which you can see behind a large pane of glass from reception. All decked out with props, tiled flooring, very clean, a dummy vehicle etc. Makes customers feel better when they're getting shafted on their invoices. The reality is that the workshop NEVER gets used for anything. The real one is a giant shed at the back full of the usual crap.

Bottom line - Don't bother going to a dealership. You may still get screwed at a local mechanic but the size of the pineapple would be much smaller.

/rant over

[Fiesta_Man69]

Exactly, Trumpy: you've hit the nail on the head. On top of your points, there are a higher number of apprentices working at dealerships (as a way of keeping costs down) and those who work in the workshop couldn't care less if you returned or not. This contrasts to your local mechanic (the small joints, not Kmart/Midas etc) who owns the joint and whose livelihood is on the line if they do a bad job.

And ach, if you had of noticed the scratch at the time (in the dealership) you could have forced them to replace it (they don't like irate customers standing in their showrooms telling the dealer principal where to stick things... its bad for business: unfortunately this is how you have to operate with Ford). At least now you've learnt about the perils of Ford 'services' and you can look forward to savings thousands of $$ in the future by getting a service elsewhere (my 60K service cost $152 all up, I supplied parts, 45 mins labour, warranty intact vs $405 Sinclair Ford quote......)

[greenfoam]

My Ford dealership where we bought the car went bankrupt a while ago lol so there's no option to get services there any more. Not that I or anyone else was for the last couple of years

[Franco Cozzo]

I have never had an ECU software update on my WS Fez before, I'm worried if I take it in i'll get the pinging issues.

[trumpy73]

lol yeah. But seriously the only thing you may notice after the upgrade is a fairly high idle on cold starts.

[fonfe]

Originally Posted by trumpy73

This is the sort of stuff that stops me from paying a PREMIUM to have anything done at dealerships who claim to have expert technicians etc.

1. 9/10 the mechanic working on your car is no more knowledgeable than the one around the street corner.

2. Chances of scratching/damaging something are just as high. e.g After my first 'free' service I noticed that my 'tow hook' cover on the rear bumper was missing. I really don't know why they would have removed that. Anyway I couldn't prove that it was them so I ended up buying a new one!! So much for a free service.

3. You can't ask an intelligent question and expect an intelligent answer. e.g I asked them what the latest ECU update is supposed to address. The foreman tells me 'I have no idea mate, Ford come up with these things and we just apply them!!'. I'm fairly sure every release would come with some sort of changelog or some literature but they can't be bothered reading (or explaining to customers)

4. I asked the dealership to investigate the pinging issues. They said they performed the ECM update. When I asked if it had resolved the pinging (I knew it wouldn't), their response was 'I don't know mate, just drive it for a while and see how you go'. i.e They hadn't even taken it for a test drive!! I can't be bothered with it any more as I'm planning to sell the car to another unsuspecting sucker. Most drivers don't know what pinging is anyway.

5. Funny story - My dealership has a 'show workshop' which you can see behind a large pane of glass from reception. All decked out with props, tiled flooring, very clean, a dummy vehicle etc. Makes customers feel better when they're getting shafted on their invoices. The reality is that the workshop NEVER gets used for anything. The real one is a giant shed at the back full of the usual crap.

Bottom line - Don't bother going to a dealership. You may still get screwed at a local mechanic but the size of the pineapple would be much smaller.

/rant over

I'd just like to point out a few things:

1. If your dealership is decent they will be sending their technicians to ford at great cost to them for their training not the local TAFE or suchlike so they are trained to work on fords latest vehicles so their knowledge should be far greater than your local mechanic who tunes your carby down the street.

2. If you look at your health check sheet there is a section which the technician has to note down damage BEFORE they even get into the car to drive it in, if it's not noted you have grounds to expect them to repair any damage as it has indeed been them that has caused it.

3. Ask the right person - the service advisor or the manager sits at a desk....you don't have to have been a technician to have either of these job roles.... A service advisor is just a receptionist in short. Ask to speak to the master technician for technical answer. Failing that the workshop controller as they are usually ex technicians.

4. Test drives should be carried out but not for all jobs. A lot of the time Faults take time to then develop, if your willing to pay an extra hours labour then I'm sure the dealership is happy to drive your car around for an hour for you but not. Uh point when you could just drive it then bring it back if the problem is still there then they can look at the other options.
If a software update is available for a vehicle this is the first thing that should be done if obvious faults are not present on the engine system.

5. This is your particular dealership not everyone has this.

I don't work at a ford dealer so that's not why I'm saying all of this, I work for an independent cosworth and RS specialist as their technician but I have worked for ford dealers in the past. I'm just trying to explain as to why they may have done certain things and what you can do in the future to get round these obstacles. Most importantly remember that a dealership is a franchise with very few being owned by ford themselves. just because the McDonald's in one town is crap doesn't mean it's crap in the next town. If you don't like the level of service at your dealer, try another one.