Motor comparo XR6 V SV6 - Page 4

Whitey-AMG · 04-11-2009, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

That's for one lap too...
The margin is amplified when you run over consecutive laps and start to kill the brakes because you have far less compression braking help in an auto...
Im not sure how well the auto's cope with constant "manual" abuse either..

You are then assuming that all those cars listed will all perform equally as well lap after lap after lap..........?

Engine heat soak, tyre wear and tear, transmission / clutch temps etc etc......will all play a major part in any serious track attack.

As far as the ZF handling abuse........it is well known that these boxes are arguably the best in the world for their smarts and their ability to hang together despite the serious abuse handed to them. Spoolmans ZF equipped F6 has done countless 1/4 mile passes without leaving its guts on the track. I've seen the ZF around a track as driver and spectator enough times to see that it handles circuit duty with aplomb...........in the 6T and V8 anyway. The N/A 6 does not use the same heavy duty version though, so results may be different.

madmelon · 04-11-2009, 10:13 PM

If people were programmed to shift gears in a manual the same way the ZF was programmed to shift, the manual would consume a bit less fuel I'd think. Even the auto in the old EL upshifts at stupidly low revs and it can hit 70km/h in 4th gear having not gone over 1500rpm- in a wagon with 3.23 diff. How many people would drive a manual like this? The secret to economy lies in the fact that the engine improves in efficiency the more the throttle is opened. If you can do the same job in a higher gear with slightly more throttle opening, chances are it'll be more fuel efficient than downshifting. Holden specifically said this to motoring journos testing the SIDI cars when climbing up hills- I recall reading that even climbing hills it's more efficient to stay at 1000rpm in top with the throttle pegged than downshifting.

madmelon · 04-11-2009, 10:21 PM

Measured fuel consumption in city for XR8, 21.4L/100km, regardless of gearbox. In reality this means nothing though because that number is obtained under very controlled conditions.

EDIT: city consumption in XR6 ute is same, 5A or 6M, XR8
city consumption in XR8 ute is LOWER for 6M over auto
city consumption in F6 Sedan is same for Auto or Manual
city consumption in GT same for Auto or Manual, very close for Hwy

XR Martin · 04-11-2009, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madmelon

If people were programmed to shift gears in a manual the same way the ZF was programmed to shift, the manual would consume a bit less fuel I'd think. Even the auto in the old EL upshifts at stupidly low revs and it can hit 70km/h in 4th gear having not gone over 1500rpm- in a wagon with 3.23 diff. How many people would drive a manual like this? The secret to economy lies in the fact that the engine improves in efficiency the more the throttle is opened. If you can do the same job in a higher gear with slightly more throttle opening, chances are it'll be more fuel efficient than downshifting. Holden specifically said this to motoring journos testing the SIDI cars when climbing up hills- I recall reading that even climbing hills it's more efficient to stay at 1000rpm in top with the throttle pegged than downshifting.

Yeah you can skip gears in manual, clutch it on coasting, in neutral when idling....
Most manuals can drive around at 60km in 5th, most people dont do it though

ADR fuel tests doesnt allow for skipped gears, nor does it take into account coasting. Also an Auto will always use more fuel idling in Drive, than a manual idling in Neutral.

madmelon · 04-11-2009, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Yeah you can skip gears in manual, clutch it on coasting, in neutral when idling....
Most manuals can drive around at 60km in 5th, most people dont do it though

ADR fuel tests doesnt allow for skipped gears, nor does it take into account coasting. Also an Auto will always use more fuel idling in Drive, than a manual idling in Neutral.

Exactly. While my sister was on her honeymoon I got to drive her little Mazda Astina V6. Now the gearing in that is very short (3500rpm@110km/h) but it will putt around very smoothly at stupidly low revs in top gear (30km/h ~ 1000rpm) and not complain when you want to accelerate. I got way better economy out of it than she ever does and she drives it fairly sedately.

5.4 GT · 03-07-2010, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5.4 GT

I'll second that... takes quite a bit of practice, but once you've got it, it's well worth it. Might try and get some vids/sound clips up when I have time.

Finally bothered to take a vid of a ZF downshift using the throttle blip technique.

madmelon · 04-07-2010, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5.4 GT

Finally bothered to take a vid of a ZF downshift using the throttle blip technique.

Man that's sweet...

Hopefully Ford/FPV will introduce auto throttle blipping some time in the near future (for autos and manuals- seeing as Nissan now do it for the manual!)

Gaz · 04-07-2010, 03:06 PM

That's a nice sound.

I'm finally getting used to it in my 3V... it's a little harder than in the FPV's I think cause the downshift is quite a bit slower due to it being a ghia... :( I push the lever forward and release, then blip the throttle. How's the timing compare on the boss's?

Smoke Pursuit · 04-07-2010, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5.4 GT

Finally bothered to take a vid of a ZF downshift using the throttle blip technique.

How do you do that?

DBourne · 04-07-2010, 05:37 PM

push selector forward, then blip throttle

FPV8U · 04-07-2010, 05:54 PM

If the SCT software for ZF's made the gearbox rev match on downshifts i'd consider one..

That Cobra is Loud, Love it!

**DJM83** · 04-07-2010, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV8U

If the SCT software for ZF's made the gearbox rev match on downshifts i'd consider one..

That Cobra is Loud, Love it!

I was thinking the same thing, from that far back and inside another car. Very nice

DBourne · 04-07-2010, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV8U

If the SCT software for ZF's made the gearbox rev match on downshifts i'd consider one..

That Cobra is Loud, Love it!

It's very easy to do by yourself, and quite fun

oranpark addict · 04-07-2010, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5.4 GT

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that was taken on the way into Menangle?

madmelon · 05-07-2010, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJM83

I was thinking the same thing, from that far back and inside another car. Very nice

I thought it was the car that the camera was in that was doing the blipping...

XRDeeze · 08-05-2012, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

How do you do that?

^ This. I wana learn how to do that aswell

GCRXR6 · 08-05-2012, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford_XR603

^ This. I wana learn how to do that aswell

Easy ..

A -- Foot on clutch, from 4 to neutral, release clutch, blip the throttle, back on clutch then into 3 release clutch... etc.
or
B -- From 4 to neutral, blip throttle into 3 ...etc. (be prepared to crunchies until yiou get it right)

In both cases bliping the throttle means to get the reves up to what they would be if the box was in 3. Of coursse, that applies to all gears.... 6 to 5 to 4 to 3 etc.

**Dave R** · 09-05-2012, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford_XR603

^ This. I wana learn how to do that aswell

If you are referring to the auto, quick jab at the throttle when you manually downshift.

EgoFalcon · 09-05-2012, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5.4 GT

Finally bothered to take a vid of a ZF downshift using the throttle blip technique.

image

Menangle NSW?

aussie muscle · 09-05-2012, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford_XR603

^ This. I wana learn how to do that aswell

wow, you really dug deep in the archive to find this thread, 05-07-10 was the previous post.

Throttle blip is really only needed for racing, because the engine braking (shift with zero throttle) can cause the rear wheels to skid/lockup under heavy braking.

XRDeeze · 09-05-2012, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

wow, you really dug deep in the archive to find this thread, 05-07-10 was the previous post.

Throttle blip is really only needed for racing, because the engine braking (shift with zero throttle) can cause the rear wheels to skid/lockup under heavy braking.

I race on a drag strip, Downshifting - Like a Boss...

barra240t · 10-05-2012, 09:20 AM

Brilliant 0-100 times for both cars. What are the XR6 turbos doing these days? Surely 1 sec quicker? I guess traction is a big one with them.

StrikeTwiceXR6 · 10-05-2012, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barra240t

Brilliant 0-100 times for both cars. What are the XR6 turbos doing these days? Surely 1 sec quicker? I guess traction is a big one with them.

Motor Magazine quote the FG XR6T at 0-100 in 5.1 seconds

2011G6E · 10-05-2012, 10:02 AM

...I notice that as per most road tests, they still seem to really concentrate on things that, in the real world, are pretty much irrelevant...things like 0-100, quarter times, and a lap of a track...

One brave magazine many years back (I think it was Motor) started to ignore those things (because let's face it, they're street cars, not race cars, & the general punter could care less about quarter times and 0-100), and began instead testing and publishing 80-110 times (overtaking) and braking distances instead...didn't last long though...

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

thats not a bad time for sixpotter's over the 400.
wasn't that long ago the eight's struggled to get into those number's.

No indeed...I've got an old Wheels magazine somewhere that had the latest and greatest stomper from Peter Brock (the top spec VL Brock Commodore I think), which was loudly shouted as cracking into the 14's, unheard of territory at the time.