ford, they do have the product....

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by 4.0i OHC

Yeah nah. Korean cars are definitely no match for a Fiesta. Imagine trying to draw a car when you have never seen one before, and you had only heard about them from friends, and read about what they are meant to look like in books. The result would be pretty ghastly, wouldn't it?

It's the same with Korean car dynamics. Some Hyundai/Kia chassis engineers don't even have driver's licences. Yeah, fair enough, they're 'heaps better' when it comes to styling and even drivetrain options, but they are still hamstrung with soggy weetbix steering (completely disconnected from the front wheels) and unsettled ride quality. When you try to push them into a corner, they understeer, understeer, and understeer some more, just for good measure. They've 'caught up' to Toyota, but certainly not Ford.

I just spent a week and a half behind the wheel of a brand new Hyundai i20 and was extremely impressed. Have you driven any of the new Korean cars made in the last 2-3 years?? It looked great, had a suprisingly smooth and compliant ride, great A/C and lots of cool gadgets. It handled great too, cornered on a 5-cent piece (unlike my old EL Falcon which was like driving one of those trolleys they use to move pallets) and had great brakes. I'm sure the Fiesta is better, but the point I'm trying to make is that most people, including myself would be more than happy with the i20, it was a great little car. So I don't know where you're getting those ideas from. Go and drive one first before you bag them out.

[IDT]

Originally Posted by Ford_The_Win

I just spent a week and a half behind the wheel of a brand new Hyundai i20 and was extremely impressed. Have you driven any of the new Korean cars made in the last 2-3 years?? It looked great, had a suprisingly smooth and compliant ride, great A/C and lots of cool gadgets. It handled great too, cornered on a 5-cent piece (unlike my old EL Falcon which was like driving one of those trolleys they use to move pallets) and had great brakes. I'm sure the Fiesta is better, but the point I'm trying to make is that most people, including myself would be more than happy with the i20, it was a great little car. So I don't know where you're getting those ideas from. Go and drive one first before you bag them out.

same same the I30. Wife has the previous model. As I am not one for gadgets that have nothing to do with driving for me it beats the same model Focus hands down (unless you buy the $40k+ versions of course).

[Professor Farnsworth]

Originally Posted by 4.0i OHC

Yeah nah. Korean cars are definitely no match for a Fiesta. Imagine trying to draw a car when you have never seen one before, and you had only heard about them from friends, and read about what they are meant to look like in books. The result would be pretty ghastly, wouldn't it?

It's the same with Korean car dynamics. Some Hyundai/Kia chassis engineers don't even have driver's licences. Yeah, fair enough, they're 'heaps better' when it comes to styling and even drivetrain options, but they are still hamstrung with soggy weetbix steering (completely disconnected from the front wheels) and unsettled ride quality. When you try to push them into a corner, they understeer, understeer, and understeer some more, just for good measure. They've 'caught up' to Toyota, but certainly not Ford.

The Fiesta, on the other hand, is a true driver's car. In the mould of the Caterham 7. Koreans may imitate, but they have a fair way to go if they want to duplicate. It mixes pin-sharp steering with the handling of my old EL Falcon slot car set, and gives a cosseting ride to boot. All with a torsion beam out the back. It has the torquiest atmo engine in its class (and if you need more torque and near-Prius fuel economy, just go for the diesel, it makes a brilliant quasi-hot hatch). Its engine sounds great in an MX-5 sort of way (despite not being an inline six or five), and just begs to be revved, despite having a fair helping of torque down in the useful zone. The brakes aren't too crash hot though, but then again it is a Ford after all.

Actually, I guess you could say that the Fiesta is all of Ford's characteristics condensed into a light car package. To the OP, I feel that this is the start of a lifelong Ford addiction for your wife. Soon enough, she'll start raving to everyone who'll listen (and some that won't) about the car's steering and handling. After over 10 years of Mercedes-Benz monotony, my Holden-supporting Dad bought his first Ford in 2011 (one of the first Mondeo Zetec Ecoboosts), and he underwent that exact transformation. Every so often, he thanks me for introducing Ford to him. He still pokes fun at my AU love, and refuses to test drive one (even though he's fallen head over heels for the FG).

And all it takes is a quick test drive to find out what a Ford is all about. Congrats to the OP's wife for getting herself behind the wheel.

Cool story. Funny though as no offence to Fiesta owners but the WT Zetec was laughable in comparison to the Rio SLS when we drove them back to back. Features, power, power delivery, gearing, aircon effectiveness, warranty, etc were all superior in the Rio. It's a brilliant little car in every way, and is hard to fault. Conceived by a designer from Audi (pretty sure he drives cars).

We went straight to the Fiesta first after owning a WP zetec a few years back, but were very unhappy with it in comparison to the Rio. Nothing else stacked up either. The Rio drives like it's on rails. so not sure where your understeer story comes from.

I love Ford and will back them til the cows come home when it's deserved, and plan to support the Falcon again soon. However you call it as it is.

Don't let my facts get in the way though.

[fanboi]

Originally Posted by Professor Farnsworth

Cool story. Funny though as no offence to Fiesta owners but the WT Zetec was laughable in comparison to the Rio SLS when we drove them back to back. Features, power, power delivery, gearing, aircon effectiveness, warranty, etc were all superior in the Rio. It's a brilliant little car in every way, and is hard to fault. Conceived by a designer from Audi (pretty sure he drives cars).

We went straight to the Fiesta first after owning a WP zetec a few years back, but were very unhappy with it in comparison to the Rio. Nothing else stacked up either. The Rio drives like it's on rails. so not sure where your understeer story comes from.

I love Ford and will back them til the cows come home when it's deserved, and plan to support the Falcon again soon. However you call it as it is.

Don't let my facts get in the way though.

They are your opinions not nessecarily facts For me i thought the fiesta was a class above the Koreans through the bends but they are making some decent cars now, thats my opinion not a fact.

As for his comments about the engineers not being drivers, I remember reading the same thing he did in wheels or motor not that long ago when they were in Korea for the launch of the Hyundai so he isnt making it up.

[Professor Farnsworth]

Originally Posted by fanboi

They are your opinions not nessecarily facts For me i thought the fiesta was a class above the Koreans through the bends but they are making some decent cars now, thats my opinion not a fact.

As for his comments about the engineers not being drivers, I remember reading the same thing he did in wheels or motor not that long ago when they were in Korea for the launch of the Hyundai so he isnt making it up.

the second part is not worth further comment but regarding the 'facts', of course the way the car handles is my opinion, i never said it was a better handler than the Fiesta, they felt more or less on par to me in handling. The FACTS are:

The Rio has more power than the Fiesta
The Rio has a direct injected motor which is far more technologically advanced and better performing with great economy. Unsure how this relates to the Fiesta but i get 6's and 7's from city driving by working out the economy properly
The Rio has a better feeling manual gearbox, with 6 cogs instead of 5
The Rio has better options, aside from voice activation (wich the US Rio gets but we don't)
The Rio has climate control, leather, auto wipers, 17's, keyless entry & start, DRL's, LED taillights, etc etc etc, the Fiesta doesn't
The Rio has a 5 year warranty, the Fiesta has a 3 in most cases

They're facts, which is no different to what i said above.

Here's hoping a not-too-far-away Fiesta raises the bar and hits the Rio for six, but until then i'll stick with the Korean junk.

[fanboi]

http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...909-1k0db.html

MMM rio is outhandled and outpaced by the fiesta in every test i can find, I guess those facts arent all facts ay??

So the Kia doesnt have better economy as you claimed was a fact, it isnt better performing despite its power advantage either.

Why wont you comment on the second part?

[Professor Farnsworth]

Originally Posted by fanboi

http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...909-1k0db.html

MMM rio is outhandled and outpaced by the fiesta in every test i can find, I guess those facts arent all facts ay??

So the Kia doesnt have better economy as you claimed was a fact, it isnt better performing despite its power advantage either.

Why wont you comment on the second part?

are we even having the same conversation?

for everyday driving and slightly spirited driving, there is bugger all difference in handling between the Zetec and the Rio SLS - i know as i drove several of each before making our decision.

if you think the Fiesta outpaces the Rio in a straight line then i'm not sure what reviews you've been reading but you're way off track. Have you even compared the figures and gearing/torque bands? The Fiesta is slow in comparison and more breathless. I'm talking about a manual here like i own, not the pile of crap dsg box vs the in-house kia auto. 6M Rio vs 5M Fiesta. It has more power, more than enough to offset the weight difference, and better gearing. Manual Fiesta vs manual Rio there is no contest. Trust me i know. If you know how to drive a manual properly and you keep the engine in the torque band (2-4000rpm) where the intake valves open and change to torque mode then there is a world of difference. In fact there are bugger all small atmo cars that will outpace it. The auto Rio is tuned for economy and will be very sluggish until you kick it in the guts and still performs considerably worse than the manual.

so let's compare the real cars, not the slushboxes hey?

also what on earth are you talking about by saying i claimed the Rio had better economy? i said what my figures were and even claimed i did not know how it compared to the Fiesta. READ what i type. And since the Rio is a touch heavier, and has 103kw vs Fiesta 89kw, and still has the same claimed economy, i think that speaks volumes also to the work done in the GDi motor.

Wheels Magazine November 2011 reviewed the Kia Rio Si which is the 1.6GDi 6 manual with the Fiesta LX 1.6MPi 5 manual.

Rio Weight: 1179
Fiesta Weight: 1095
Rio Economy: 6.8/100
Fiesta Economy: 6.6/100
Rio Torque: 167/4850rpm
Fiesta Torque :151/4300rpm
Rio 0-100 8.8sec
Fiesta 0-100 9.8sec

Not that car testing day economy results are relevant, but i'd say they pulled both figures from another test, i think the outpacing results speak for themselves there.

The only issues i really see with the Rio are NVH can be harsh at times with the suspension setup and i'd love a better tune on the EPS.

but hey, flogging a dead horse by trying to post anything non ford related i guess, so carry on. Enjoy lol.

[GTP-03]

I recently faced the same delima, I needed a new car desperatley, I was in the market for 4 door 4 cylinder. I test drove a kia rio 1.4 litre which was full of options, but was quite gutless and overpriced for my budget(17k). I was going to test drive a Fiesta, but in the end I got a very good deal on a Mazda 2. These cars are fantastic, there the closest thing to a sports car for the money. Mazda spent so much time and money into designing these cars to be as light as possible, they weigh just over 1000 kilos and have a revvy 1.5 litre, and a super slick gearbox, they feel like a small race car. They come standard with metallic paint and space saver spare (the fiesta misses out on these, but it does make up for that with the tech features it has). The Mazda 2 I bought was a demo with 400km on the clock, the dealer threw in a 5 year warranty, with 4 months rego, for $14500 drive away, with 7.3% interest rate over 7 years!

[mik]

Originally Posted by jphanna

this is a school/shopping runnabout. we will always have a falcon or commodore (depending on what decade) for big family outings etc

sher tried a kia RIO and saif that it felt very solid and the only car to take it up to the Fiesta. the KIA salesman, whne told of the Fiesta competition.....reminded us that the fiesa doesnt have a spare wheel, just a can of glue and a pump.

i didnt check to see if he was correct, but seems the fiesta has a few people worried.

that`s a good point, however, i don`t know how many on here have done a wheel change on a front wheel drive with the standard car jack, especially on the front wheels where all the weight is, i did one for a lady on a hyundai a couple of years ago and it was bloody hard yakka, i truly doubt a woman would have been able to do it, i`m 6`1 and the wrong side of a 120 kg, and the power it took too jack it up............... i was wishing i was in my big falcon,
i mean i was truly flabbergasted at the difficulty involved, perhaps in a front wheel drive the glue sytem is not a bad thing, as in a lot of cases i suspect a petite woman would have a battle doing the job.
i would encourage any hubby to do a practice wheel change on a fwd to check the difficulty.
ps i might add the jack was in good condition.

[Professor Farnsworth]

yeah the Rio comes with a full size spare at no extra cost regardless of the wheels you get. Mine has a full size 17 in the boot.

[jphanna]

Originally Posted by fanboi

http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...909-1k0db.html

MMM rio is outhandled and outpaced by the fiesta in every test i can find, I guess those facts arent all facts ay??

So the Kia doesnt have better economy as you claimed was a fact, it isnt better performing despite its power advantage either.

Why wont you comment on the second part?

i just want to put my 2 cents worth in. the only car i drove was the 1.2 (rubber band motor) spark. she drove the others. she told me the fiesta had heaps of grunt and the rio was the only car to 'take it up to the fiesta'.

i have never driven a direct injection car. i ask this question as i have NO idea. is Direct injection similar to the 'all singing all dancing' VTEC engines that honda used to flog as the greatest engines on earth, because i distinctly remember that they were all TOP END screamers, despite the claim that they were good from lower rev range as well.

is direct injection...AGAIN top end screamers, in the real world, and not just 'full throttle application' winners on a DRAG strip?

you have theoretical REAL world drivability....and you have figures on a drag strip. call me a dinosaur, but i still believe that the bigger the capacity...the more driveabilty you have in REAL world, especially in the tonka toy small car market.

[Professor Farnsworth]

Originally Posted by jphanna

i just want to put my 2 cents worth in. the only car i drove was the 1.2 (rubber band motor) spark. she drove the others. she told me the fiesta had heaps of grunt and the rio was the only car to 'take it up to the fiesta'.

i have never driven a direct injection car. i ask this question as i have NO idea. is Direct injection similar to the 'all singing all dancing' VTEC engines that honda used to flog as the greatest engines on earth, because i distinctly remember that they were all TOP END screamers, despite the claim that they were good from lower rev range as well.

is direct injection...AGAIN top end screamers, in the real world, and not just 'full throttle application' winners on a DRAG strip?

you have theoretical REAL world drivability....and you have figures on a drag strip. call me a dinosaur, but i still believe that the bigger the capacity...the more driveabilty you have in REAL world, especially in the tonka toy small car market.

direct injection is simply moving the point where the fuel is injected to directly into the combustion chamber.. it's implementation is simply to make more efficient use of a precisely metered amount of fuel with less wastage. Increasing the efficiency of the fuel 'servings' translates to better fuel economy and better power due to the injection point being right in the action. They've been working on bringing GDi motors to the mainstream for a long time but they require a LOT of computing power to constantly adjust and seemlessly regulate the fueling, along with more expensive, more accurate injectors. Now they're pretty well covered with good reliable computing systems delivering the goods. With the increase in GDi motors and trick dual-stage intake runners, you can really squeeze a (relatively) lot of power and torque out of a baby-sized motor with great efficiency.

so with the point being more power from less fuel, you can't really go wrong.

VTEC is valvetrain related, it's an adjustable cam profile, nothing directly to do with the fuel system.

the new 5.5 in the VF will be a direct injected pushrod unit which should be interesting, but that's another topic.

cubes = torque & power, but cubes + GDi = even more torque and power

[zilo]

Originally Posted by mik

that`s a good point, however, i don`t know how many on here have done a wheel change on a front wheel drive with the standard car jack, especially on the front wheels where all the weight is, i did one for a lady on a hyundai a couple of years ago and it was bloody hard yakka, i truly doubt a woman would have been able to do it, i`m 6`1 and the wrong side of a 120 kg, and the power it took too jack it up............... i was wishing i was in my big falcon,
i mean i was truly flabbergasted at the difficulty involved, perhaps in a front wheel drive the glue sytem is not a bad thing, as in a lot of cases i suspect a petite woman would have a battle doing the job.
i would encourage any hubby to do a practice wheel change on a fwd to check the difficulty.
ps i might add the jack was in good condition.

I've done it many times and as long as the supplied manufacturers jack is well designed it really isn't a problem....even with a big V6.

But...the wheel brace (tire iron for our US folk), that is another story.

They just bend when trying to get the wheel nuts off when a gorilla with an air tool has done them up to 600nM ......

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Professor Farnsworth

Cool story. Funny though as no offence to Fiesta owners but the WT Zetec was laughable in comparison to the Rio SLS when we drove them back to back. Features, power, power delivery, gearing, aircon effectiveness, warranty, etc were all superior in the Rio. It's a brilliant little car in every way, and is hard to fault. Conceived by a designer from Audi (pretty sure he drives cars).

We went straight to the Fiesta first after owning a WP zetec a few years back, but were very unhappy with it in comparison to the Rio. Nothing else stacked up either. The Rio drives like it's on rails. so not sure where your understeer story comes from.

I love Ford and will back them til the cows come home when it's deserved, and plan to support the Falcon again soon. However you call it as it is.

Don't let my facts get in the way though.

Kia Rio is superior but the new one wasn't around when the WS Fiesta was released, at the time I bought my WS Fiesta it was the best small car on the market.

If the new Rio was around back then I'd have bought that over the Fiesta, and all Kia cars have full sized spares, correct?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Professor Farnsworth

direct injection is simply moving the point where the fuel is injected to directly into the combustion chamber.. it's implementation is simply to make more efficient use of a precisely metered amount of fuel with less wastage. Increasing the efficiency of the fuel 'servings' translates to better fuel economy and better power due to the injection point being right in the action. They've been working on bringing GDi motors to the mainstream for a long time but they require a LOT of computing power to constantly adjust and seemlessly regulate the fueling, along with more expensive, more accurate injectors. Now they're pretty well covered with good reliable computing systems delivering the goods. With the increase in GDi motors and trick dual-stage intake runners, you can really squeeze a (relatively) lot of power and torque out of a baby-sized motor with great efficiency.

so with the point being more power from less fuel, you can't really go wrong.

VTEC is valvetrain related, it's an adjustable cam profile, nothing directly to do with the fuel system.

the new 5.5 in the VF will be a direct injected pushrod unit which should be interesting, but that's another topic.

cubes = torque & power, but cubes + GDi = even more torque and power

Direct injection has been around for a long time now, except on diesel engines.

[Professor Farnsworth]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

all Kia cars have full sized spares, correct?

i think they do, double check that though. I remember Hyundai were telling me that as a marketing point when we drove the i20 as well, that the i20's all had full size spares.

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Direct injection has been around for a long time now, except on diesel engines.

yeah i know it has mate, i said to the mainstream, as in mass-marketing not just expensive makes who had the money to perfect it.

they had a lot of trouble with injector reliability, various emission by-products and ECU's that could handle the intense processing requirements as far as making them more readily available in a broader sense.

[mik]

i am not 100 % sure about the direct injection, i saw on an engineering work shop problems with carboning up on a particular brand head(high end euro), it might have been a poor design i don`t know, i`am waiting to see how all these commy`s go with the DI when they get a few k`s up on them.

[Professor Farnsworth]

Originally Posted by mik

i am not 100 % sure about the direct injection, i saw on an engineering work shop problems with carboning up on a particular brand head(high end euro), it might have been a poor design i don`t know, i`am waiting to see how all these commy`s go with the DI when they get a few k`s up on them.

was it an Audi head?

no stories of any issues yet on the Gamma 3 1.6 in the Veloster/Rio but time will tell. No one knows for sure if Hyundai re-shaped the piston in any way to reduce the issue, or anything at all about it to be honest as it hasn't become apparent in their engines yet.

also i haven't heard a lot about the SIDI having any real dramas either, and there are plenty of them with a lot of KM done.

[Professor Farnsworth]

forgot to mention the Rio also gets four wheel discs as opposed to disc front drum rear on the Fiesta

[Elks]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Bit like people who don't buy a car as the indicator is on the 'wrong' side.

Yeah, because people who say that would actually pass up a C63 or M3 for that reason.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Professor Farnsworth

was it an Audi head?

no stories of any issues yet on the Gamma 3 1.6 in the Veloster/Rio but time will tell. No one knows for sure if Hyundai re-shaped the piston in any way to reduce the issue, or anything at all about it to be honest as it hasn't become apparent in their engines yet.

also i haven't heard a lot about the SIDI having any real dramas either, and there are plenty of them with a lot of KM done.

i think it was a beemer actually.

[SpoolMan]

Originally Posted by jphanna

well we find ourselves in the market for a small runabout for the wife and kids.

my wife was in the definate 'Ford are crap' category, being brain washed from her dad/brother/who knows?


.

Wife had a Fiesta 2008 not one warranty issue, now 2012 Focus Sport fantastic car the Focus 12 months no issues.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by jphanna

my wife was in the definate 'Ford are crap' category, being brain washed from her dad/brother/who knows?

This is the problem with the Australian consumer.

[BrisVegas]

We've just been through the new small car test drive runaround. Drove or looked at Corolla, Prius C, i30, Veloster, Focus, Mazda 3, Golf and Polo. We had a WS Fiesta Zetec when they first came out and my wife loved it. I had a LS Focus Zetec and honestly, the Fiesta was comfier and sportier.

We've decided to get another Fiesta again, and save $10k+ in the process. This time a 2010 Zetec 3dr in blue. Such a cool little car. Sure, I'd love a little turbo diesel with all the luxuries like satnav and a reverse camera etc etc.. but the petrol is pretty solid and economical and we can buy an aftermarket satnav and camera if it becomes and issue. Got one with extended warranty and it's just been serviced. Happy days. Should have it by the weekend.

[jphanna]

well just an update on this thread...check out my Avatar!!!!!

the fiesta is a unbeleiveable nice car to drive. make my VE feel like a truck now.

just wanted to mention this trick that the salemasn did. tell me if we fell for it.....

i had seen a rival dealer at lunch time. he gave me a KNOCKOUT price in 10 mins. no games...nothing but straight talking. but he didnt have the colour we wanted. anyway i organised a meeting with another dealer (that had the colour we want) to see what the bottom line was. he knew of my visit to the other dealer, but he didnt know of the colour situation.....

after 25 mins of doing a song and dance routine, he fianlly gave us a price 900.00 more. we said thanks but no thanks and got up.

he then did something extraordinary

.......i wont have anything to do with those cars
.......i dont want warrranty issues
.......i know where those cars come from

we still got up and headed for the door, he then said so if i match the price you will take it.

we agreed and he did. we pick it up tomorrow.

[Yellow_Festiva]

The old 'get up and walk to the door' trick ;)

Glad it worked

[SpoolMan]

Originally Posted by jphanna

we agreed and he did. we pick it up tomorrow.

congrats they are very reliable solid little car...