|
Welcome to the Australian Ford Forums forum. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and inserts advertising. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features without post based advertising banners. Registration is simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. Please Note: All new registrations go through a manual approval queue to keep spammers out. This is checked twice each day so there will be a delay before your registration is activated. |
|
The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
02-12-2014, 03:15 AM | #31 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Utah
Posts: 3,479
|
Everything I have read about the ZF-8 suggests otherwise. Seemingly perfect ratios and calibration. Always selects the best gear. I haven't driven anything with it myself.
|
||
03-12-2014, 06:06 PM | #32 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Catland
Posts: 3,869
|
Quote:
__________________
I6 + AWD |
|||
03-12-2014, 10:24 PM | #33 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Shoalhaven
Posts: 3,161
|
Funnily enough, the X3 (Territory's closest and probably only genuine substitute) is offered in 2WD (RWD) in Europe, but the Australian market is considered to be not interested in RWD in this class of car. Within the next couple of years I reckon BMW showrooms are going to be surprised by a diaspora of ex Territory owners out on the streets looking for an equivalent "fix"! And after all the X3 pricing starts in the Territory Titanium ballpark.
That it can only be substituted by a BMW is a tribute to Territory's remarkable design. I'd rate it as Ford Australia's greatest achievement. I really think Ford USA simply doesn't understand the class act they have to follow with the Territory. Or perhaps they do and they're hoping people will forget and fall into line with global dumbing down. Or more likely fall out of line and go with the competition. They'd better give that Australian design centre plenty of work. |
||
04-12-2014, 05:58 AM | #34 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,331
|
The problem comes down to Ford Europe doesn't want anything bigger than a Kuga, so anything bigger is still to American tastes as that's where the most will be sold.
|
||
This user likes this post: |
04-12-2014, 07:17 AM | #35 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,193
|
|
||
04-12-2014, 11:06 AM | #36 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Shoalhaven
Posts: 3,161
|
Quote:
It's also blindingly self-evident that in this thread we're talking about cars on stilts (a large part of the automotive segment nowadays) and their performance within that constraint. Quite obviously the Territory, X3 etc are not going to be "drivers cars" to the extent of any exceptional low-slung car model. Re BMW, I find the X5 not quite as sharp and sprightly as the Territory but it's grown bigger so I wouldn't expect it to be. It's almost imperceptibly close though. The X3 matches the Territory, maybe even a tad better and certainly a better ride that irons out the bumps (if not in Sport). The whole BMW fitout is of course much nicer, as it should be since you pay more for it (and the badge). Whether they're as cheap to fix is another matter. But then you'd buy a Camry if that's what you want and bugger the drivability. Moving on from a Territory is a bit like being stuck between a rock and a hard place. |
|||
04-12-2014, 04:08 PM | #37 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Victoria
Posts: 7,854
|
Territory is 1898 x 4883 x 1716
X5 E70 is 1933 x 4857 x 1776 current X3 is 1881 x 4648 x 1661 whilst that may all look close, the X3 dimensions are closer to that of a RAV 4. sorry but in my book its a smaller vehicle weight and towing capacity etc. for the record Explorer is about 2200 x 5000 x 1790 so a little bit bigger again
__________________
______________________________ 2015 Territory Titanium RWD Diesel - SOLD 2016 BMW X5 xdrive 30D Msport Seadoo Challenger 210SE 310HP |
||
This user likes this post: |
04-12-2014, 09:16 PM | #38 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,193
|
^^^^Not to mention most are 2.0 litre.
In a two minute search I noted 6 cyl diesel X3 with 80,000km 3 year old asking $55K....newer with low kms we are starting to get into $80K+ but then it is still a mid size SUV. Looked for a 7 seater version, couldn't find any. I have no idea where the Terri / X3 comparison comes from. Completely different car in a completely different league, one thing I've noted that all current Terri owners seem to view them with rose color glasses. |
||
04-12-2014, 09:37 PM | #39 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Shoalhaven
Posts: 3,161
|
Quote:
For a start, X3 is closer to Territory than RAV4, but in any case you've made the mistake of looking at external dimensions only. Most Asian-originated vehicles make poor and inefficient use of internal space compared with the European design approach (which includes Ford Australia). Ever noticed for example that you never get internal dimensions in Toyota marketing literature? X3 is almost the same wheelbase as Territory (3 cm difference). The measurement from front footwell to back seat is pretty identical. The boot space behind the back seat in the X3 is actually slightly bigger than the Territory - a tiny bit shorter but wider and higher, adding up to more volume. And that's all below the cargo cover. On top of that, the X3 has the standard BMW pop-up cargo barrier so you can pile luggage up to the roof, unlike the Territory where, for safety, you have to keep it below the cargo cover unless you want it all in the back of your neck in an accident. So, fore to aft inside, the X3 matches the Territory, with a lead in luggage capacity. Crossways, the Territory is ahead (by 6 to 7 cm), as it is with all its competition. It's a proper family car and you can get the couple of child seats and baby capsule across the back seat. With the X3, 3 adults in the back seat are more squeezed and you'd be looking at two baby seats/capsules. It's a car for when the babies and kids have mostly moved on, no question about that. However the RAV and all its ilk are even narrower. The Asian SUVs (including the Captiva too) are mostly quite narrow, tall vehicles, which wouldn't do wonders for their stability either. Vehicle weight? I would have thought that nowadays, the lighter the vehicle the better. Most X3 fuel consumption figures leave the Territory (especially petrol version) for dead. Towing? Certainly you'd be using a Territory for your big boat etc but the X3 isn't exactly a slacker either - about 2000 to 2400 kg. I'm only arguing for the X3 as a Territory replacement at the Ghia/Titanium level. Certainly you'd be mostly past the lifecycle stage of carrying lots of littlies and their mates. I'm also bearing in mind a price ballpark. If money is no object, you can certainly move onto the X5 which has everything the Territory provides, including most of the drivability and handling. But we're talking about a hundred grand. I'm trying to be realistic here! I still rest my case that the X3 is pretty-much the only vehicle to offer almost all the qualities of the Territory within an overlapping price range. And most other popular offerings in the price ballpark are a barge to drive, which is the original point I'm making. Probably because when you actually get in an X3 and drive it, the similarities are immediately obvious to a Territory owner/driver. Have you actually done that? |
|||
05-12-2014, 07:46 AM | #40 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Shoalhaven
Posts: 3,161
|
Quote:
Here's a very good example of the dilemma faced by Territory owners post-Territory. Amazingly, more Australians buy these than Territorys: http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...25789C001C88B2 And he hasn't even mentioned that the Captiva is smaller on all significant internal dimensions than the Territory. It's even smaller than the X3, just longer and taller on the outside. I don't think there's anything rose-coloured at all about the way Territory owners would see things. Post-Territory, in the price class there's nothing to replace its combination of drivability and practicality except crap. I'm sure Ford USA, taking note of the fact that many Australian car buyers are apparently happy with crap, will readily lower the bar. After all, internationally it's a tiny market for them. I'll certainly be looking at Everest and Edge when they come out but I won't hold my breath. Incidentally, second-hand examples of the current X3 (post 2011) are now down in the $40,000s. Last edited by new2ford; 05-12-2014 at 07:57 AM. |
|||
05-12-2014, 10:00 AM | #41 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Victoria
Posts: 7,854
|
Quote:
but I did actually come up next to one at the lights last night, they are much bigger, but I certainly sat taller. but I think you are right they can be compared now, but I think the Jeep is still the closest rival and I agree with you on internal space My Territory is much larger inside than our Prado, sitting 3 adults or car seats in the second row for example I do like the Heavier car for how they feel to drive, and tow. For me this is why the Explorer looks like a great replacement. and is how I would see But I am concerned about what its price would be, I'm looking keenly to see what the Mustangs go for I haven't written of Edge, and Everest can be compared to our other car. why are you so quick to write off the Explorer, I assume you haven't driven one?
__________________
______________________________ 2015 Territory Titanium RWD Diesel - SOLD 2016 BMW X5 xdrive 30D Msport Seadoo Challenger 210SE 310HP |
|||
05-12-2014, 10:06 AM | #42 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Shoalhaven
Posts: 3,161
|
Quote:
I admit reputation prejudice plays a role. American barge with dodgy history and all that. The original X3 was not too good either. I wouldn't recommend a pre 2011 (i.e. pre-current model) one. Last edited by new2ford; 05-12-2014 at 10:27 AM. |
|||
This user likes this post: |
05-12-2014, 12:04 PM | #43 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Victoria
Posts: 7,854
|
From this article it will be:
http://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news...7#.VIEB0a24aM8 Ford Everest This is not the replacement for the Ford Territory, but the Ford Everest will give the blue oval brand a shot in the arm when it arrives next year priced from about $45,000. Ford Edge This also is not the replacement for the Ford Territory. Contrary to other reports, the Ford Edge (unveiled in the US earlier this year) is a five-seat SUV designed to appeal to young families that don't need seven seats. Think of it as a rival to the Toyota RAV4 and Mazda CX-5. It's due in Ford Australia showrooms in late 2015 or early 2016. Ford Explorer Now this IS the replacement for the Ford Territory. The next generation Ford Explorer (North America's top selling SUV, the new version of which is yet to be unveiled) will replace the Territory in late 2016. Ford Australia doesn't want to let the Territory name die but it's likely the vehicle will wear its US name. However, we may see the Territory badge on a model variant of the Explorer
__________________
______________________________ 2015 Territory Titanium RWD Diesel - SOLD 2016 BMW X5 xdrive 30D Msport Seadoo Challenger 210SE 310HP |
||
This user likes this post: |
05-12-2014, 12:21 PM | #44 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Victoria
Posts: 7,854
|
and this more recent one:
http://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news...3#.VIEIf624aM8
__________________
______________________________ 2015 Territory Titanium RWD Diesel - SOLD 2016 BMW X5 xdrive 30D Msport Seadoo Challenger 210SE 310HP |
||
05-12-2014, 12:51 PM | #45 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Shoalhaven
Posts: 3,161
|
Somebody ought to tell the Ford dealer sales staff then. They've been briefed differently from Uncle Josh and his "well-placed insiders" (the board room tea ladies?)!
Probably more likely no single one will be an exact "replacement" for the Territory, but between them they will encompass the market niche. Whether any of them will have the good driving dynamics is an open question. |
||
05-12-2014, 06:08 PM | #46 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 1,629
|
Explorer is not being made in RHD, the new model will be based on the Mondeo/fusion, and not Taurus(which shares an ancient,heavy platform with Volvo s60).
So even the Americans loose an AWD wagon based on a locally made large car in the quest for One Ford.
__________________
____________________ 2024 TOYOTA HIACE 2019 LDV G10-GONE THANKFULLY 2009 Mitsubishi Express-GONE 2011 Honda Jazz ____________________ |
||
05-12-2014, 06:36 PM | #47 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,331
|
Next Taurus is based on Mondeo/Fusion too, so in a round about way the Explorer will still be based on Taurus.
|
||