Victoria Police Chief caught speeding

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by Stefan

So issuing a driver a warning for a 5km speeding offence is misconduct, but hey your the expert..

Not sure was Vic cops have to do with NSW police ethics either.

Looks like NSW cops a corrupt as EVERY ticket I ever received from a cop (three, if I recall right) for speeding was down graded to the next lower speed bracket. Very risky for a cop to do me a favour, I should have reported the pr!cks....

Every police force uses the same code of conduct more or less, as they all operate under the same rules, Vic cops also have to operate within their ethical standards.

I am guessing you don't understand corruption, if a person gains favour due to their position it is corruption, so if the cop let you off with a lower reading/warning because he was your mate, or servicing your wife, or because you buy him xmas presents he is acting corrupt, if he gives you a warning because he feels that you have learned your lesson and the circumstances are appropriate he can issue a warning or downgrade the ticket provided he applies the same rules to all his vehicle stops.

If it turns out the only warnings he gave out in the last three months was to the Police Chief, his father in law and his fishing buddy and that he ticketed someone for doing the same thing an hour or a day or a week previously his ethical standards would be called into question.

It's pretty simple really

[SensationFG8]

Actually it's not simple, whenever someone has discretion to apply it becomes very grey and can get very complicated when you try to prove intent.

Say he did pull over a mate, gave him a warning and knew the mate would take the warning seriously is that corruption? You can't prove the intent he had when he let the mate off with a warning. Chances are the police officer knows it's his mates car before he pulls it over, so would it have been better to just not pull him over?

It's all a bit grey, nothing simple about it.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

Actually it's not simple, whenever someone has discretion to apply it becomes very grey and can get very complicated when you try to prove intent.

Say he did pull over a mate, gave him a warning and knew the mate would take the warning seriously is that corruption? You can't prove the intent he had when he let the mate off with a warning. Chances are the police officer knows it's his mates car before he pulls it over, so would it have been better to just not pull him over?

It's all a bit grey, nothing simple about it.

There is a very simple test you can apply yourself every time you make an ethical decision in life, 'Would you be happy for your decision to be on the front cover of the Sydney Morning Harald tomorrow morning??', if the answer is no then it's probably not the right decision.

The discretion must be applied the same in every situation, so there is no reason he could not issues a warning to the Police chief if he had issued the same warning to the previous 5 persons doing the same thing, but really he can't honestly and ethically without favour issue a warning if he booked the previous three people for the exact same thing.

It is pretty simple if you apply the rules.

[SensationFG8]

I agree with your sentiment on SMH as a good litmus.

"must be applied the same in every situation", for the situation to be the same the people would have to give you identical answers to the questions of the officer. This doesn't happen in real life, no two situations are identical, I don't agree this is as black and white as you think it is. Judgement of the individual officer needs to have weight, that's why it's their discretion.

Agree if they ONLY let their mates off there is a problem, but that is an extreme example, there is plenty of grey beyond that.

[GT450]

Peninsula link uses point to point cameras to detect excessive speed. If he got detected at 108km/h, his speedo would most likely have been showing somewhere between 108-114km/h. Given it's point to point and the typical idiots blocking the right lane there I'd suggest he was probably traveling in excess of 108km/h for a decent amount of time. This doesn't appear to be a simple lapse in concentration considering the detection points can be 5-10 minutes apart. Instead it shows he was exceeding the limit for a prolonged period of time, not just a quick stab of the throttle in the wrong spot.
________________

Not quite correct , they are point to point and static cameras at the same time.If you go past them overspeed they will take your picture just the same as any other speed camera. So it does not show he was speeding for a prolonged time, I travel the road every day twice a day and I would think the number of point to point infringements would be low in comparison to speeding by a camera offences. Most everyday users would know where the cameras are and would be careful as the travel past them, it's the idiots and non locals that feed the fines , just like in many other areas.
He did the crime, he paid the fine just like any other citizen, just shows he's human. As for discretion, cameras don't have any and he proved the point. We all have lapses but drive judiciously and you have nothing to fear....do you?
GT450

[Iggle Piggle]

Don't think we know whether he was booked by camera or by cop.

Maybe Commish failed the attitude test.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

I agree with your sentiment on SMH as a good litmus.

"must be applied the same in every situation", for the situation to be the same the people would have to give you identical answers to the questions of the officer. This doesn't happen in real life, no two situations are identical, I don't agree this is as black and white as you think it is. Judgement of the individual officer needs to have weight, that's why it's their discretion.

Agree if they ONLY let their mates off there is a problem, but that is an extreme example, there is plenty of grey beyond that.

I know what you are saying but you are making it more complicated than what it has to be.

There are many tests you can apply, most police will operate along the lines of a reasonable person, would a reasonable person come to the same conclusion given the same information. Who is a reasonable person?? who knows??

The decisions a particular officer makes have to be consistent and without prejudice or favour, my decisions may be different to your decisions given the same circumstances as we all have different values. Does not make my decision right or yours wrong, as long as the decision making process is lawful and consistent.

Letting off the Police Chief after booking the previous three people would not be an ethical decision, booking the Police chief after warning the previous three would also not be ethical. If an officer issued 10 tickets in a shift and three warnings and warnings were his brother in law, the publican from the local pub where he drinks and his neighbour there would be an issue.

[lucas2]

Originally Posted by GT450

Not quite correct , they are point to point and static cameras at the same time.

Double checked and you're right. Thanks for the heads up.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

I know what you are saying but you are making it more complicated than what it has to be.

There are many tests you can apply, most police will operate along the lines of a reasonable person, would a reasonable person come to the same conclusion given the same information. Who is a reasonable person?? who knows??

Looks A OK to let off the commissioner on that basis then.

I think most "reasonable" people would not give their Boss a ticket...

Anyway no matter we don't know how he was booked.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Looks A OK to let off the commissioner on that basis then.

I think most "reasonable" people would not give their Boss a ticket...

Anyway no matter we don't know how he was booked.

Probably not as even if he had given the previous three people a warning as well, most bogans here would still scream 'one rule for them and one rule for us', probably sending out a lynch mob to have the officers job and have his family drawn a quartered and to have the commissioner resign and be tarred and feathered in the town square.

Easier to just issue the ticket.

[Maka]

A pretty serious faux paux for a very public figure & role model to cough cough unwittingly commit. Very serious matter, I think the commissioner needs to donate $10,000 to his favorite charity too!!!

Ps, the commissioner is human too & its good to see he will cop it on the chin
like everyone else would. I'm sure he wouldn't want it any other way either, kudo's to him Imo!

cheer's, Maka

[chizzy86]

I can't believe the fuss this is causing. A guy does 108 km/h on a freeway. Woah! In any other country he'd he asked why he's going so slowly. Even in NSW its not as bad as that as every camera is signposted and the cops can't (technically) hide, plus you get to know their spots after a while.

The speed nazi attitude in Victoria explains a lot of the disgraceful driving I saw from Vic drivers on NSW roads over the break. In 110 km/h zones in NSW there is a little bit of leeway and with the mobile cameras all signposted you can generally pick your moments when you need to speed up a bit to get around someone before settling back down to 110 again, but the Mexicans would literally take a good 5 mins when I could get past someone in about 10 secs and get back to the left lane and get out of the way of the person behind. Basically the who way from Canberra to Grafton there were a series of Victorian road blocks holding up the traffic and making people frustrated. Some of them were so insipid they were too frightened to go past 110 so they'd slow down and cut back to the left lane and all the NSW drivers would blast past. FFS

[cro142]

This incident may be the place to trigger a re-think of the speed vs safety nexus.

It seems that the Commissioner has exceeded the speed limit without the world coming to an end.

Maybe he should Man Up and admit that speedo watching is more dangerous than a few km over an arbitrary limit, and push for change.

Oh, sorry I forgot that the policies have less to do with safety than revenue raising.

How long are we going to put up with this hypocrisy?

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by chizzy86

I can't believe the fuss this is causing. A guy does 108 km/h on a freeway. Woah! In any other country he'd he asked why he's going so slowly. Even in NSW its not as bad as that as every camera is signposted and the cops can't (technically) hide, plus you get to know their spots after a while.

The speed nazi attitude in Victoria explains a lot of the disgraceful driving I saw from Vic drivers on NSW roads over the break. In 110 km/h zones in NSW there is a little bit of leeway and with the mobile cameras all signposted you can generally pick your moments when you need to speed up a bit to get around someone before settling back down to 110 again, but the Mexicans would literally take a good 5 mins when I could get past someone in about 10 secs and get back to the left lane and get out of the way of the person behind. Basically the who way from Canberra to Grafton there were a series of Victorian road blocks holding up the traffic and making people frustrated. Some of them were so insipid they were too frightened to go past 110 so they'd slow down and cut back to the left lane and all the NSW drivers would blast past. FFS

Settle down Mr Jack Brabham, you getting bit too excited here!

[XG_Falcon]

Originally Posted by chizzy86

The speed nazi attitude in Victoria explains a lot of the disgraceful driving I saw from Vic drivers on NSW roads over the break.

Ironic that you should label them "speed nazis" when the national socialists were in fact the ones that built the Autobahnen

[Iggle Piggle]

Originally Posted by trublu

Settle down Mr Jack Brabham, you getting bit too excited here!

Yeah, keep the over-reaction for Chris Gayle

[The Monty]

Ill just throw it out there as noone seems to understand.

The government make the laws. The government creates the legislation for police to enforce. The government also give guidelines on how this is to be enforced, tolerances, infringement prices and the regulations surrounding every single law. The government also will dictate HOW that legislation will be implemented, the advertisement of that legislation and set the guidelines on HOW they want police to enforce it.

Police enforce these laws. They don't make them. If the government says that speed kills, police will advertise the speed kills slogan as thats what the government wants.

In this circumstance, its not a crime, its a traffic infringement.
To think that some have called for him to be sacked is just mind blowing. Police are human. He made an error. He got fined, and he will pay the fine. Who cares what happens after that.

And to the numpty that bought up the "tax payer funded car" argument, every police car is tax payer funded. And here is a news flash. Police pay tax as well. So he has just as much invested in that vehicle as any other person.

This thread is 4 pages of nonsensical crap about a fine of 8km/h over. Imagine if there was a 4 page thread everytime any one else got the lowest range speeding ticket available.

Go back to paying out the GT and reminding GTF owners that the XR6t Sprint will be faster, and the XR8 Sprint badge will have more KWs, it is much more entertaining!

[The Monty]

Also, to those that continue to whinge about speed limits and tolerances, go and write a damn letter to your local member! The government does not change legislation because someone said they should on an AFF thread.

Speeding is like a voluntary tax on the stupid. You dont have to pay the tax unless you speed. So for most, they dont have to pay this tax. But when people get caught doing what they are told not to, they have to pay the tax! Its an involountary payment, noone is forcing you to speed! And look up vehicle standards before whining about the whole "tolerances are 10% but they book you for 3% over" argument. The vehicle standards tolerance is +0/-10%. I have never experienced a vehicle that reads slower than the actual speed a vehicle is going unless the person has played with rim size, tyre size, or diff ratios. It just doesnt happen people, get it through your head!

[DJM83]

Never mind.

[The Monty]

And yes, of course I speed sometimes, and when I get caught I just pay the fine (usually while complaining about)

[EB#]

To my mind, this event is total vindication that speed cameras specifically target 'minor lapse of concentration' drivers rather than 'speeding' drivers. Every driver on the road experiences a minor concentration lapse from time to time, so this tax pool is much larger than just the habitual speeding drivers. Even the speed cameras with a massive sign on approach still rake the money in!

[monzie]

What's a "numpty"?? An insult I presume.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by The Monty

Also, to those that continue to whinge about speed limits and tolerances, go and write a damn letter to your local member! The government does not change legislation because someone said they should on an AFF thread.

Speeding is like a voluntary tax on the stupid. You dont have to pay the tax unless you speed. So for most, they dont have to pay this tax. But when people get caught doing what they are told not to, they have to pay the tax! Its an involountary payment, noone is forcing you to speed! And look up vehicle standards before whining about the whole "tolerances are 10% but they book you for 3% over" argument. The vehicle standards tolerance is +0/-10%. I have never experienced a vehicle that reads slower than the actual speed a vehicle is going unless the person has played with rim size, tyre size, or diff ratios. It just doesnt happen people, get it through your head!

Originally Posted by The Monty

Ill just throw it out there as noone seems to understand.

The government make the laws. The government creates the legislation for police to enforce. The government also give guidelines on how this is to be enforced, tolerances, infringement prices and the regulations surrounding every single law. The government also will dictate HOW that legislation will be implemented, the advertisement of that legislation and set the guidelines on HOW they want police to enforce it.

Police enforce these laws. They don't make them. If the government says that speed kills, police will advertise the speed kills slogan as thats what the government wants.

In this circumstance, its not a crime, its a traffic infringement.
To think that some have called for him to be sacked is just mind blowing. Police are human. He made an error. He got fined, and he will pay the fine. Who cares what happens after that.

And to the numpty that bought up the "tax payer funded car" argument, every police car is tax payer funded. And here is a news flash. Police pay tax as well. So he has just as much invested in that vehicle as any other person.

This thread is 4 pages of nonsensical crap about a fine of 8km/h over. Imagine if there was a 4 page thread everytime any one else got the lowest range speeding ticket available.

Go back to paying out the GT and reminding GTF owners that the XR6t Sprint will be faster, and the XR8 Sprint badge will have more KWs, it is much more entertaining!

Wow, one of the rare peopel with what was considered common sense

Originally Posted by The Monty

And yes, of course I speed sometimes, and when I get caught I just pay the fine (usually while complaining about)

And also a person who appears to take responsibility for their actions, rather than looking to blame the laws for their inability to drive their car within the rules that they agreed to when they decided to hold a drivers license in their respective states.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by monzie

What's a "numpty"?? An insult I presume.

If you have to ask, the tag probably fits

NUMPTY Definition - a stupid person, a person who struggles at the basics of life in general, a person ineffective at life.

[Boosted8]

Mods please change my account name to "Numpty".

Thanks in advance.

[monzie]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

If you have to ask, the tag probably fits

NUMPTY Definition - a stupid person, a person who struggles at the basics of life in general, a person ineffective at life.

And here was me thinking it was probably short for "numb skull". Looks like my life has been far worse than I thought, how have I ever survived.

Now that the personal insults are starting to surface this tread is probably not to far off being shutdown.

[The Monty]

Sorry, I didn't mean it as a personal insult, more of a generic for a myriad of people. Nit directed to you at all.

[LTDHO]

Personally the top man who tell all his little boys in blue to fine us should receive a harsher penalty. He knows the speed tolerance is a joke and he fell for it and should pay for it and not what we do.

Stepping down from his roll is quite excessive. Perhaps doubling or tripling a $190 for someone on estimated $200k is a joke also.

How?
No idea. Any idea we have he will shrug off and would be forgotten in an hour.

[Blue Roo]

Originally Posted by The Monty

Ill just throw it out there as noone seems to understand.

The government make the laws. The government creates the legislation for police to enforce. The government also give guidelines on how this is to be enforced, tolerances, infringement prices and the regulations surrounding every single law. The government also will dictate HOW that legislation will be implemented, the advertisement of that legislation and set the guidelines on HOW they want police to enforce it.

Police enforce these laws. They don't make them. If the government says that speed kills, police will advertise the speed kills slogan as thats what the government wants.

In this circumstance, its not a crime, its a traffic infringement.
To think that some have called for him to be sacked is just mind blowing. Police are human. He made an error. He got fined, and he will pay the fine. Who cares what happens after that.

And to the numpty that bought up the "tax payer funded car" argument, every police car is tax payer funded. And here is a news flash. Police pay tax as well. So he has just as much invested in that vehicle as any other person.

This thread is 4 pages of nonsensical crap about a fine of 8km/h over. Imagine if there was a 4 page thread everytime any one else got the lowest range speeding ticket available.

Go back to paying out the GT and reminding GTF owners that the XR6t Sprint will be faster, and the XR8 Sprint badge will have more KWs, it is much more entertaining!

Hey Monty!

[blackf6]

Isn't that why you would become a Police officer? So you can do what you like. I'm only a lowly fuel tanker operator. But I can still fart on the couch.