Is Australia the first.

[ljf12]

Maybe someone can answer this, it would appear that manufacturing in this country is all but gone, what roles have replaced all those factory jobs etc lost over the years.

Maybe things like child care, aged care, fast food,tourism,Jims mowing/cleaning and the like.

You quite often hear where a company or government department is laying off hundreds , when do you hear the opposite ? If one member of a once double income family is looking for work are they included in the unemployment figures ? What would be the "actual" unemployment rate ?

As a country we are better off than most, but it would seem that it will only get tougher for the average person. Do you think those people being driven around Canberra in their BMWs actually give a rats, apart from cranking up the presses and handing out cash can they do much anyway ?

[Shonky.]

Originally Posted by ljf12

Maybe someone can answer this, it would appear that manufacturing in this country is all but gone, what roles have replaced all those factory jobs etc lost over the years.

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliame...EmployIndustry

in the last year, admin, finance/insurance, retail and health have had the biggest inflows of workers

Originally Posted by ljf12

If one member of a once double income family is looking for work are they included in the unemployment figures ? What would be the "actual" unemployment rate ?

yes, they would

the definition is anyone actively looking for but failing to get employment

it excludes those who are working but would like to work more, and those who have given up

[ljf12]

Thanks Shonky
How does the government know if someone is looking for work unless they are registered with Centrelink ?

When I was growing up double income families were uncommon, makes me wonder if the percentage of working age people employed in the workforce is higher now than back then.

It would be interesting to see the differences in the workforce between present times and forty/fifty years ago.

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by Shonky.

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliame...EmployIndustry

in the last year, admin, finance/insurance, retail and health have had the biggest inflows of workers

I just can't help but feel that this is a backwards step for a country to replace local manufacturing with the above roles.

So the roles are admin for foreign owned companies. Then we can finance and insure our foreign made cars with foreign owned finance companies. Or work for foreign owned retail companies selling Chinese made goods.

All good for now, but how long is this sustainable for?

Oh almost forgot, we do have a building industry... who builds homes for Chinese investors.

[mik]

Originally Posted by XWGT

Sorry I don't understand this.
As the link provided show services created 300,000 additional jobs while manufacturing provided -8,000 in the same period.
Seems it you want employment you want services.

Sorry for the slow reply ,
but 300,000 additional jobs ? it sounds good on paper, but how many of them are part time ? how many of them are casual ?
this is the thing , a full time job lasting for 2 weeks .....theres not a lot of value in that ,
and politicians and economists sitting in their nice air conditioned office working full time are very good at cherry picking the good facts and leaving out the ones that matter imo..
once upon a time even a low skilled worker may have a long term job pushing a broom .
As a young buck i took the attitude i would just keep trying jobs until i found the silver bullet , for me that was a choice that was a lot born out of poor education and coming from a fairly poor broken family ,
some jobs i had for 5 years , some for far less .
if i learned anything from that experience , it taught me regardless of the type of job , if you are casual its very hard to plan for anything even if your getting a good wage .
if you get 52 weeks worth of pay for working 40 weeks , most ofthe time you sit on anything spare to cover those weeks your not working , and its much harder to buy houses/cars , etc .
unfortunately these factory type jobs that so many look down on because they are not high tech or highly skilled imo put a lot more back into the economy imo than a pack of poor bastards living week to week in casual jobs in the service industry .

As for services industry being the future , a lot of the time you have to have a full time job to pay a service provider , not every one can be a service provider .
i dont want to argue , so i will just say ....i will agree to disagree, but i think this direction is going to see us far worse off in the long run ..

[mik]

Originally Posted by Wretched

As one industry goes, another rises. Whilst we've lost major car manufacturing we are gaining in other areas and industries (services, etc). We've even gained a lot of business in smaller specialised manufacturing.

Australia is not immune to innovation and technological advances (and why would you want to be?), the flipside to this is a number of industries will transform to accommodate the changes in technology and there will be collateral from this.
Car manufacturing was going to be doomed here, Ford sold stuff all cars and couldn't justify the $$ to keep it going (if they couldn't then the government shouldn't), Holden in the same boat and well, TMCA, they just couldn't justify spending the extra $$ on the components after Ford and Holden went.

We, as a nation need to be seen as the smart country, one that can adapt and be at the forefront of this innovation revolution. Unfortunately, we're just slipping further and further behind, compromising on just about everything, trying to squeeze more and more $$ (NBN), pandering to groups that are outraged by something and in the end we lose out. We need leaders who will take the charge and put us on the front foot not for 2 - 3 years ahead but generations. Hanging on to industries that don't advance, don't change or adapt with everyone else is a risk and the impact is..well we have all seen it. Now, what are we going to do with the lessons learned from the past???

Again sorry for the leisurely time for me to respond.
i wouldnt argue with anything you have said there , except for putting up one question , and that is why did our motor manufacturing industry fall behind ? become not viable ?
we had some dam good cars come of our factorys ,
a lot of it comes back to how much it costs to make stuff here and the trade policys that favor over seas countrys , this is not just about cars , other industries are doing it tuff too .
And finally as i pointed out to XWGT , these days a big portion of the work force is casual or part time ,and that is just not acceptable , and the more we ignore this the worse off we will be imo..

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by mik

Again sorry for the leisurely time for me to respond.
i wouldnt argue with anything you have said there , except for putting up one question , and that is why did our motor manufacturing industry fall behind ? become not viable ?
we had some dam good cars come of our factorys ,
a lot of it comes back to how much it costs to make stuff here and the trade policys that favor over seas countrys , this is not just about cars , other industries are doing it tuff too .
And finally as i pointed out to XWGT , these days a big portion of the work force is casual or part time ,and that is just not acceptable , and the more we ignore this the worse off we will be imo..

I cannot be 100% sure, but my opinion would be that we limited our output of cars to a particular segment of the market (sedans, utes). We took too long to adopt to the growing market of SUVs (Territory), when we did, there was simply no innovation to follow a benchmark car, the Territory and Falcon were relatively the same car for long periods of time.

Who's fault? List is long, but it is primarily the car makers, they are the ones that need to front up the $$ for the R&D, etc. If they want to sell cars they need to out run the competition, sitting on your hands won't do that. The car makers are the ones who have the insight into product planning, market changes etc. Ford should have ditched the I6 OR made it significantly smaller for more applications.

Look at other car makers, Mazda, Kia, Hyundai, etc. All have evolved heavily over the years an sales are reflecting that.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

We still have a healthy locally produced truck manufacturing industry here with Kenworth in Melbourne and Mack (Volvo) in Brisbane.
Kenworth trucks Aust. have custom built their models since 1971 using locally sourced suppliers, cabs, glass, frame rails etc. engines of course were US imports as were Mack trucks.
Kenworth continued with the Aussie built K200 long after the yanks gave up on cabovers (due to their relaxation of length laws)

K.T.A still operate independently to their parent company Pacific Car Co.

Forgot Iveco building Acco's here.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Ford should have ditched the I6 OR made it significantly smaller for more applications.

Look at other car makers, Mazda, Kia, Hyundai, etc. All have evolved heavily over the years an sales are reflecting that.

All the effort to put the Lion V6 Diesel in the Territory, and it should have had the 2.7 Ecoboost at the same time.

For that matter Falcon should have had the same options.

The I6 kept Ford Australia different from the rest of the worlds Fords & One Ford program. surely that didn't help.

[FalconXV]

We need to do a stocktake of what's left. We got Kenworth, Volvo/Mack, Nissan parts, Toyota bullbar maker, Carbon Revolution, Deakin University's lab and Quickstep, Tomcar, the company that makes door catches, PWR, maybe one or two plastic companies that have diversified and found overseas clients, data.

Futuris but I'm pretty sure has moved their base overseas.

Denso, all the rest are packing up I'm pretty sure.

I need help with this because soon I am going to write an article exploring the possibility of (very low volume) manufacturing ever returning, 3D printing, etc.

I remember Ethan Motors was going to have a crack then they disappeared, couldn't get in touch with them.

[Vesper Martini]

Bosch still make Diodes for the Auto industry in Clayton, though a lot of it is closed. Hella are still making Lenses in Australia for now..
Continental formerly Siemens VDO are very successful in making instrument clusters for some of the big players.
There's quite a few part makers that made sure they weren't reliant on Australia's local industry.

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Nope, once upon a time there was RFW built in Chester Hill, Sydney all Australian.
no wait just googled them https://rfwtrucks.com.au/ possibly yes.

Ha we used to have an RFW built OB truck at channel 9.

GM two stroke!

I believe they also built a lot of fire engines (for NSW??)

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Wretched

I cannot be 100% sure, but my opinion would be that we limited our output of cars to a particular segment of the market (sedans, utes). We took too long to adopt to the growing market of SUVs (Territory), when we did, there was simply no innovation to follow a benchmark car, the Territory and Falcon were relatively the same car for long periods of time.

If you look at Russ' tech data on the forums, when Territory was released in 2004 it was also the moment that SUV sales overtook passenger cars. So in that sense, Ford Oz absolutely nailed it with the timing. They did it with a car that also had great points of difference - AWD/2WD, good car like handling, lots of storage options, 7 seats - all innovation that now defines that sector. Similarly, they nailed the Ranger as dual cabs took over the market, but alas that's not built here.

Agree on lack of follow up.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by FalconXV

We need to do a stocktake of what's left. We got Kenworth, Volvo/Mack, Nissan parts, Toyota bullbar maker, Carbon Revolution, Deakin University's lab and Quickstep, Tomcar, the company that makes door catches, PWR, maybe one or two plastic companies that have diversified and found overseas clients, data.

Futuris but I'm pretty sure has moved their base overseas.

Denso, all the rest are packing up I'm pretty sure.

I need help with this because soon I am going to write an article exploring the possibility of (very low volume) manufacturing ever returning, 3D printing, etc.

I remember Ethan Motors was going to have a crack then they disappeared, couldn't get in touch with them.

Good luck on that article, be sure to mention it here.
It's going to take going through the wringer of a strong recession/depression for Australians to realise they need domestic manufacturing - just as happened in 1920s/30's and resulted in John Curtin's nationalist ALP government and the establishment of domestic industry. It's all cyclical, it happens again and again.

For those who espouse the service economy as being the saviour, note US and UK trying that and now supporting domestic manufacturing strongly; and also ask yourself, how much of the money flowing through services is coming from our housing/construction bubble and historic low interest rates? What happens to these services when credit tightens? (happening now) How many services depend on the easy cash flow and the highly indebted to keep running? I say that as someone in a service industry, too.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Forgot Iveco building Acco's here.

Not much ACCO left in them now.
I wouldn't want to compare them to the ol' Butterbox.