New Civic Type R - FWD Nurburgring lap record

[jpblue1000]

I'm certain Honda know that the fastest way around the ring is with a RWD. Though judging by their F1 effort...?
But last time I looked (never) Honda doesn't make a RWD car. Going to the ring and putting down a competitive time is a marketing ploy to demonstrate how good their FWD car is. And this one is I the top 100 of manufacturer cars. Not bad given the sheer number of cars that have tried.
Its not as fast as plenty of cars, but for a consumer hatch I think Honda has demonstrated its competence. Add a few mods and it would scare plenty of much more expensive 'performance' cars. I've personally done a sub 8 minute lap in a modified Suzuki swift...gate to gantry!
JP

[XR6Runner]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

But last time I looked (never) Honda doesn't make a RWD car.
JP

Just to quickly point out, they made the NSX which was RWD, and now the new one which is AWD.

[Sioso]

These are the sort of cars it is keeping company with at 7m:43s, not bad for a $50K FWD hatch.
And yes some of them are a few years old now but it is still impressive.

62. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 7:42.90 Onboard N/A ’05
63. Porsche 911 GT3 RS 7:43.00 Onboard N/A ’03
64. Honda Civic Type-R 7:43.80 Watch Onboard '17
65. Pagani Zonda C12 S 7:44.00 Onboard N/A ’02
66. Audi R8 V10 5.2 FSI 7:44.00 Onboard N/A ’09
67. Mercedes CLK 63 Black Series 7:45.00 Onboard N/A ’07
68. Gardner Douglas GD T70 Spyder 7:45.00 Onboard N/A ’10
69. Mercedes C 63 AMG Coupe Black Series 7:45.00 Onboard N/A ’11
70. Porsche 911 GT2 7:46.00 Onboard N/A ’00
71. Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera 7:46.00 Onboard N/A ’07
72. Jaguar XJ220 7:46.37 Watch Onboard ’92
73. Lamborghini Murcielago LP-640 E-gear 7:47.00 Watch Onboard ’07
74. Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano 7:47.00 Onboard N/A ’06
75. Wiesmann GT MF5 7:47.00 Onboard N/A ’08
76. Porsche 911 Turbo 7:47.00 Onboard N/A ’09
77. Golf GTI Clubsport S 7:47.19 Watch Onboard ’16
78. Porsche 911 GT3 RS 7:48.00 Onboard N/A ’06
79. BMW M3 GTS 7:48.00 Onboard N/A ’10
80. Alpina B3 GT3 7:49.00 Onboard N/A ’10
81. Lamborghini Murcielago 7:50.00 Onboard N/A ’02
82. BMW M3 CSL 7:50.00 Onboard N/A ’03
83. Porsche 911 Carrera S 7:50.00 Onboard N/A ’08

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by XR6Runner

Just to quickly point out, they made the NSX which was RWD, and now the new one which is AWD.

Honda currently make the S660, a mid engined rwd car...for the "Kei" micro car catagory in Japan.

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Because of the front weight bias, torque steer and the issues having one end power the car and steer it at the same time.



So if I have a different opinion I shouldn't comment. Now who's the ignorant one

FWD cars have their place, the Renaultsports and ST's are brilliant. But if manufacturers want to make a car to run seriously quick times at the nurburgring they sure as hell ain't doing it in a bum dragger.

And don't tell me the guys using those cars at the Nurburgring would be using them if they could afford a good rwd or awd car like a 911, GT-R etc for example.



Cars as big as Falcons ain't exactly the best examples of handling. Especially stock. Hardly relevant. Try that same corner in a proper RWD sports car and see what the result is.

Boss XR8- I agree with you- ultimate performance, front wheel drive is not the way to go.

But I think you are missing the point,

For me- I wanted to get that massive pull that a C63 sports pack gave- but could not afford the $150,000 odd. Thank you Ford Australia- you gave me the FGX XR8 which brings you that head speed rush- for $58,000 on the road.

Now- I also like the Porsche Cayman GT/Boxster S handling round tight stuff- go kart. But guess what -I cannot afford the $160,000 odd.

And it seems that this Honda may bring that body flinging G force throwabout round corners sensation for some $50,000 odd on the road.

See what I am saying, if you are a guy like me who works bluddy hard for the dime, with wife, kids, this sort of machinery allows us non sliver spooned toffs a look into the joys of different elements of motoring performance.

[FPV+fteT3]

Just how much of the lap did the Honda do? If it only did the bridge to gantry lap its a much shorter lap, that aside its still an impressive time from a hatch ....

FYI
There are three main lap timing methods employed by drivers and manufacturers:
Full Lap – This is a full run of the Nordschleife track, a total of 20.8km. This bypasses the more modern portion of the GP track. Also, the end is shortened by 200 metres in order to allow for safe finishing times.
Sport Auto Lap – For manufacturers wishing to test their supercars, speed limits are added to allow for safe entry and exit of the course near the Tribune 13 grandstand. This Sport Auto supertest thus has a 7-second shortened lap time. There are 5 sections on the 20,600 m long Supertest-Nordschleife, detailed as follows:
The first is 3,850 m
The second is 4,235 m
The third is 4,825 m
The fourth is 4,846 m
The fifth is 2,844 m
The total is 20,600 m
Bridge to Gantry lap, a distance of just 19.1km. This is the one most tourists use on their lap and some manufacturers use this lap for 1.5km of obvious reasons

[Sioso]

Originally Posted by FPV+fteT3

Just how much of the lap did the Honda do? If it only did the bridge to gantry lap its a much shorter lap, that aside its still an impressive time from a hatch ....

FYI
There are three main lap timing methods employed by drivers and manufacturers:
Full Lap – This is a full run of the Nordschleife track, a total of 20.8km. This bypasses the more modern portion of the GP track. Also, the end is shortened by 200 metres in order to allow for safe finishing times.
Sport Auto Lap – For manufacturers wishing to test their supercars, speed limits are added to allow for safe entry and exit of the course near the Tribune 13 grandstand. This Sport Auto supertest thus has a 7-second shortened lap time. There are 5 sections on the 20,600 m long Supertest-Nordschleife, detailed as follows:
The first is 3,850 m
The second is 4,235 m
The third is 4,825 m
The fourth is 4,846 m
The fifth is 2,844 m
The total is 20,600 m
Bridge to Gantry lap, a distance of just 19.1km. This is the one most tourists use on their lap and some manufacturers use this lap for 1.5km of obvious reasons

It was a full lap, not BTG.

[MITCHAY]

If they can get it $50k or thereabouts than the FWD vs AWD argument matters not as much because it will be pretty cheap.

But if you're asking Focus RS, Golf R/S3 or STi money then that's another thing altogether. All of those cars are really good.

[FPV+fteT3]

Originally Posted by Sioso

It was a full lap, not BTG.

Your source for this? or were you driving? or just guessing?

[tranquilized]

I thought the manufacturers would always book the whole track for private sessions. The track isn't open to the public every day because of this. As a tourist you need to check which days it's open. So every "offical" lap time quoted by a manufacturer is always a full lap, never a BTG. The whole BTG arrangement is only in place to safeguard unskilled public. That's what I gathered when I visited the track in 2006 anyway, could be wrong or things may have changed since then.

[bdave351]

Apparently the time is fairly questionable.

Its a 'pre production testing model' which roughly means they can do whatever.

So talk is it was stripped for weight and running more HP than the production model will have.
Not surprised.

Some discussion here

http://fastestlaps.com/articles/is-t...e-record-legit

[XR6Runner]

Originally Posted by FPV+fteT3

Your source for this? or were you driving? or just guessing?

The youtube clip? Did you watch it lol?

[zipping]

Originally Posted by bdave351

Apparently the time is fairly questionable.

Its a 'pre production testing model' which roughly means they can do whatever.

So talk is it was stripped for weight and running more HP than the production model will have.
Not surprised.

Some discussion here

http://fastestlaps.com/articles/is-t...e-record-legit

I immediately caught that it was a development car and there was no info on tyres just track focused street legal tyres. Well you can make up enormous times with the right tyres plus stiffer suspension and a track focused camber/castor set up.

Pretty quick lap though.

[383hq]

I read that whilst it had a cage for safety that added weight, the only weight they removed was to keep it at production weight - spare tyre, radio. You get the idea

Regardless, the thing is as fast as my old porsche turbo. and that, is impressive.

Aussie culture is so predictable, knocking anyone that does any good.

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by 383hq

I read that whilst it had a cage for safety that added weight, the only weight they removed was to keep it at production weight - spare tyre, radio. You get the idea

Regardless, the thing is as fast as my old porsche turbo. and that, is impressive.

Aussie culture is so predictable, knocking anyone that does any good.

Yes- a roll cage for "safety" :0 that roll cage had nothing to do with added chassis stiffness and ultimate handling eh.

So, it is not the car you will buy on road, and the tyres were semi slick variety, but it does show that if you buy one and tinker with tyres etc you will have one quick machine that will be a blast round the local remote twisties.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Fastest FWD car is like saying hottest chick without a head. No one really cares.

I'm not too concerned with their heads

[bdave351]

Originally Posted by 383hq

I read that whilst it had a cage for safety that added weight, the only weight they removed was to keep it at production weight - spare tyre, radio. You get the idea

Regardless, the thing is as fast as my old porsche turbo. and that, is impressive.

Aussie culture is so predictable, knocking anyone that does any good.

Yeah cause removing things like you know... seats make it production.

And adding power....cause you know thats only fair I mean there is long straights. Doesnt matter its not production, after all cause its like...quicker!

Aussie culture is predictable, you cheat you get called **** for not doing it the right way.

[383hq]

To Pull a seat out ? 4 bolts.
Half cage and structural rigidity? doubt the FEA would show material change there.
Change some tyres for the race track ?16-20 wheel nuts

Power adders, Nah, that's not allowed. Huh? Half this forum is based on posts from people looking to make more power.

You guys are kidding yourselves, Anyone that's cut laps would do all of the above as basic track prep in an hour.
That is, Unless you are in Victoria, then it's all illegal, and your car should be impounded immediately, the law is the law, no one's ever made mods in Vic to benefit in motorsport....

It's a quick car.

end of story

[malazn mafia]

Good performance, but will always be a farting Hongda with no street cred and no respect, much like a Toyota Camry will always be grandpa's car no matter who is driving it, what sort of wheels or bodykit it is wearing or even if it's being driven around Mt Panorama.

[tranquilized]

FWD vs RWD vs AWD is irrelevant at this point. Look how ugly the thing is!!

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by asagaai

But, there is a figure 8 double lane roadway, and driving my manual Honda Euro front drive 2.4 vtec through that- no other traffic, taking a certain line in second, snicking into 3rd, and hitting the limiter both gears - was an orgasmic experience- that is the sound of the vtec from 6,750 to over 7,300 hitting the limiter and bouncing on it- getting a conservative thing to get down and dirty. The car sat flat and I 4 wheel drift slided through it.

I could imagine this paragraph fitting well into a homoerotic novel

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

I could imagine this paragraph fitting well into a homoerotic novel

Ouch.

Yes- had a red too many when I wrote that crap.

But sometimes I do miss that go kart feeling around corners that my FGX XR8 does not give me.