VFACTS April 2019

[ozrunner]

Originally Posted by prydey

Many people may not be aware of the work MB did and just see them as a rebadged Nissan with a fancy badge.

Yep I agree as how could people also not notice all the work that MB put into reconfiguring a 1960's dash board

[smoo]

Originally Posted by anobserver

When i was seriously looking at cars last year, i mentioned a number of options to the mechanic that looks after our current wheels. He reckoned the focus is rubbish to maintain compared to say, a mazda 3. Muttered about oil leaks and so on.

Kia and Hyundai are closely related, but keen competitors. There are persistent rumours about a Kia pickup. Now, imagine a ute with the turbo Lambda 3.3 petrol engine and a seven year warranty....

Originally Posted by Oldbugger

Last week I test drove a Focus Titanium as we are looking for a replacement for our Territory. The car is a nice car to drive if not a little harder to get in and our of having had a Territory for the past 12 years (I am getting older). The issue I have is past reputation and future resale value. This was made abundantly clear when the mechanic doing a roadworthy on the Territory asked what I was getting as a replacement. When I said possibly a Focus he burst out laughing and said you have to be joking as their transmission is rubbish and constantly breaking. I told him it's a completely different transmission but he was't convinced. This is the issue Ford faces with Focus and there current ads do nothing to show the buying public things are now different.

Are these mechanics from a dealer, and Ford dealer?
I don't know how they could confidently and comfortably write off the new Focus, considering its an all new car, engine and transmission. Poor form IMO.

Whats the story with the Mondeo, abysmal figures there. Yet superior in everyway to the horrid small SUVs that people have transitioned to from conventional sedans/wagons.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Ford Fiesta 1
Ford Focus 273
Ford Mondeo 76

How long until the fwd passenger car section is discontinued?

[anobserver]

Originally Posted by smoo

Are these mechanics from a dealer, and Ford dealer?
I don't know how they could confidently and comfortably write off the new Focus, considering its an all new car, engine and transmission. Poor form IMO.

Of course not. New Fords would be getting serviced at a dealer, and my experience is that dealership mechanics are reluctant to bag company product (at least when sober).

The opinion referred to near new cars made since the double clutch disaster. But i take your point. It could be that the only fords that went through that shop were a bit neglected by their owners and showing unusual signs of wear.

He wasnt too keen on the escape either. But based on what ive read theres not a lot wrong with them. So i try not to take what he says as gospel.

Shame the mondeo/fusion never sold well here. Seems a decent enough car. Though its demise, along with a bunch of other sedans, makes me nervous. Its a big call to cease developing product based on trend projection.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by smoo

Are these mechanics from a dealer, and Ford dealer?
I don't know how they could confidently and comfortably write off the new Focus, considering its an all new car, engine and transmission. Poor form IMO.

Whats the story with the Mondeo, abysmal figures there. Yet superior in everyway to the horrid small SUVs that people have transitioned to from conventional sedans/wagons.

Medium segment is dying. Just claimed another victim, with Hyundai axing the i40.

Originally Posted by Sprintey

How long until the fwd passenger car section is discontinued?

Fiesta ST will be released soon. Mondeo is getting a facelift which will give it another couple of years before it's probably discontinued. Focus is doing ok. They didn't plan to sell heaps of them, but it's doing enough to make it worthwhile selling it.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Medium segment is dying. Just claimed another victim, with Hyundai axing the i40.

Yeah I realise that and I also realise the market is heavily diluted but Mazda 6 sold nearly three times that of the Mondeo and Skoda Octavia twice as many despite mondeo range having a lot of choice body styles, engines etc.
It reminds me of the FG2 Falcon and Territory and it’s sliding sales, suspicion of Ford making no effort to sell and market them, seems like the same story here, or multi brand franchises steering people to other makes and models(?).

[anobserver]

Maybe our market isnt big enough to warrant Ford's marketing dollar anymore.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by hayseed

Who in their right mind would pay a heap of "Mercedes Tax" on a Nissan Navara??

This review agrees,
https://www.caradvice.com.au/647502/...nissan-navara/

The Merc offers better suspension, interior, infotainment (new word!) Safety, and full size pallet space, but also lacks some feature the Nissan has.
cost of ownership is where it really fails, simply not worth the extra coin IMO.

unless you go all out on an X350

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

This review agrees,
https://www.caradvice.com.au/647502/...nissan-navara/

The Merc offers better suspension, interior, infotainment (new word!) Safety, and full size pallet space, but also lacks some feature the Nissan has.
cost of ownership is where it really fails, simply not worth the extra coin IMO.

unless you go all out on an X350

The ironic thing is Mercedes have the know how and tech across their other models to bring something revolutionary to this over priced archaic segment.

ie. new E Class plug in hybrid with 155kw/350nm 2.0 turbo petrol which returns 2.5l/100km, through to the new 3.0 turbo 6 petrol at 270kw and 500nm.
Be good to see that with perhaps the 2.1 turbo diesel at 150kw and 510nm and their 9 speed auto with low range standard right through to the inline 6 diesels and petrol turbos in a double cab Ute.
Air bags and coils all round to improve ride quality and payload etc.
instead they brought out a half arsed attempt in a field of mediocrity.

[Oldbugger]

Originally Posted by EBSXR6

Have you considered an SUV in a similar size to the Focus?
A lot easier to get in and out.

Thanks EBSXR6. We have also taken an Escape Titanium AWD over the weekend and it appears that this is the vehicle for us. My wife had a look at a Focus Active and said it didn't appear to be that much higher off the ground but the interior was "poor man" in relation to the Focus/Escape Titanium.

[Oldbugger]

Originally Posted by smoo

Are these mechanics from a dealer, and Ford dealer?
I don't know how they could confidently and comfortably write off the new Focus, considering its an all new car, engine and transmission. Poor form IMO.

Whats the story with the Mondeo, abysmal figures there. Yet superior in everyway to the horrid small SUVs that people have transitioned to from conventional sedans/wagons.

Hi smoo. The mechanic was not associated with Ford. My point was that people in general hear the stories and have friends/relatives with older model Focus's and the current ads that are running just are not selling the fact that this is a new transmission and in no way similar to those with problems. Word of mouth is a powerful advertising tool especially if it is negative.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Oldbugger

Hi smoo. The mechanic was not associated with Ford. My point was that people in general hear the stories and have friends/relatives with older model Focus's and the current ads that are running just are not selling the fact that this is a new transmission and in no way similar to those with problems. Word of mouth is a powerful advertising tool especially if it is negative.

and that's where we come in, just tell the truth that Powershift was that bad,
Ford was forced to get rid of it and go with a Ford/GM co-developed torque converter automatics..

The skinny version,
1.5 EB 8F15 8-speed auto is Ford's evolution of Ford/GM 6-speed auto co-development (2006-)

2.0 EB 8F35 8-speed auto co-developed with GM 9T50 9-speed auto but with 4th gear eliminated.

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by smoo

Yeah I realise that and I also realise the market is heavily diluted but Mazda 6 sold nearly three times that of the Mondeo and Skoda Octavia twice as many despite mondeo range having a lot of choice body styles, engines etc.
It reminds me of the FG2 Falcon and Territory and it’s sliding sales, suspicion of Ford making no effort to sell and market them, seems like the same story here, or multi brand franchises steering people to other makes and models(?).

I guess it's partly because Mazda 6 has just recently been updated, and the best seller in the class - the Camry - had an all new model about 18 months ago. Mondeo is aging, although it's still a great car, and still (to my eyes at least) very pretty.

It's sad seeing Ford so far adrift like that.

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by jpd80

and that's where we come in, just tell the truth

While I don't agree that Powershift was that bad, this is exactly right. That is why I will continue to drive and buy Fords, because I believe they make great products, especially those sourced from Europe.

[au2000]

Originally Posted by jpd80

and that's where we come in, just tell the truth that Powershift was that bad,
Ford was forced to get rid of it and go with a Ford/GM co-developed torque converter automatics..

The skinny version,
1.5 EB 8F15 8-speed auto is Ford's evolution of Ford/GM 6-speed auto co-development (2006-)

2.0 EB 8F35 8-speed auto co-developed with GM 9T50 9-speed auto but with 4th gear eliminated.

I think its more than just the powershift auto itself... it's fords behaviour to its customers over it that's left the bad taste in peoples mouths... just look at the comments on Ford's Facebook page whenever there is a comment re focus & powershift (I prefer to call it power****)

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by au2000

I think its more than just the powershift auto itself... it's fords behaviour to its customers over it that's left the bad taste in peoples mouths... just look at the comments on Ford's Facebook page whenever there is a comment re focus & powershift (I prefer to call it power****)

Exactly, they tried to be smart with customers and avoided doing the right
thing until forced to do so. As far as I know they have never really admitted
that there was no permanent fix for powershift, they can make it better for
longer but eventually it will cause trouble again...

For all of that, I believe the market is fairly forgiving, just start delivering great
vehicles and treat customers with respect an most of that" bad air" will stay in
the past thanks to moving to a proper 6AT in the Focus back in 2015,
I think Fiesta with 1.5 had powershift too but the 1.0 EB has the 6F15 auto.

We are pretty much stuck with meh products until Ford reconfigures products
coming out of Europe which is pretty much the home room for most global
products - I like the look of new Escape and the Puma is a knock off of CX-3.

The other issue of course is Ford's pricing, great to have premium products but
don't expect sales to be al that good.. dealers must be wondering if they are
ever going to get anything they can sell in decent numbers.....

Ranger was really needed for our market and that's why Ford Aust had so
much say in what they wanted for our market back in 2011 but what they
need to do now is take that knowledge and apply it to Europe's coming
vehicles before they get here.

[whales]

Originally Posted by Oldbugger

Last week I test drove a Focus Titanium as we are looking for a replacement for our Territory. The car is a nice car to drive if not a little harder to get in and our of having had a Territory for the past 12 years (I am getting older). The issue I have is past reputation and future resale value. This was made abundantly clear when the mechanic doing a roadworthy on the Territory asked what I was getting as a replacement. When I said possibly a Focus he burst out laughing and said you have to be joking as their transmission is rubbish and constantly breaking. I told him it's a completely different transmission but he was't convinced. This is the issue Ford faces with Focus and there current ads do nothing to show the buying public things are now different.

I went from an 2013 Focus with it's rubbish transmission to a new STline fully optioned up and it is a ripper of a car. The only criticism is the engine noise when accelerating is a touch loud but once cruising its a dream to drive.
Fantastic car

[jpd80]

Medium car segment is interesting as some of the players have been been relocated
to other segments due to engine capacity or premium pricing but if were to ignore
those differences and just focus on actual car size the sales peck order would be

1. Toyota Camry...........1274
2. Holden Commodore.....629
3. Mercedes C-Class..371
4. Mazda 6..............205
5. BMW 3 Series.......192
6. Kia Stinger...........160
7. Skoda Octavia......154
8. Audi A4...............129
9. Hyundai Sonata......82
10.Lexus ES...............82
11.Ford Mondeo..........76

There's a quick half life going on with those sales, from 1st to 4th place,
the sales drop quickly from 1274 to 205 just like that, the next four places
sees sales drop from 192 to 129 and then the sub 100 club, Mondeo doesn't
even make it into the top 10.

[4stanger]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Medium car segment is interesting as some of the players have been been relocated
to other segments due to engine capacity or premium pricing but if were to ignore
those differences and just focus on actual car size the sales peck order would be

1. Toyota Camry...........1274
2. Holden Commodore.....629
3. Mercedes C-Class..371
4. Mazda 6..............205
5. BMW 3 Series.......192
6. Kia Stinger...........160
7. Skoda Octavia......154
8. Audi A4...............129
9. Hyundai Sonata......82
10.Lexus ES...............82
11.Ford Mondeo..........76

There's a quick half life going on with those sales, from 1st to 4th place,
the sales drop quickly from 1274 to 205 just like that, the next four places
sees sales drop from 192 to 129 and then the sub 100 club, Mondeo doesn't
even make it into the top 10.

I would imagine, not too many fleet sales going to the Euro & Lexus models in that list, more likely for the top 2 though.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by 4stanger

I would imagine, not too many fleet sales going to the Euro & Lexus models in that list, more likely for the top 2 though.

C class is Mercedes fleet of choice at head office.