Do you think Elon is sinking Tesla?

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

Hardly irrelevant, its still a cost that gets passed onto the consumer, and consider the scarcity of facilities to recycle the materials. My nearest solar panel recycling depot is ~300km away, and I know my local council doesnt send the panels they recieve there.



The solar installation at my house lasted 8 years before the inverter died, no solar installer I've spoken with will replace *just* the inverter, they all want to replace the panels too.



As I said, only 1 electricity provider in the area.

The cost of recycling isn't driving prices up for anyone. Let that go. It's not a problem at all to worry about especially given panel life and the newer wind blades are much better than Gen 1 (just like coal plants have become more efficient over the years).

Plenty of inverters you can buy second hand as well. Lot of people are selling their inverters cheap that are upgrading to Powerwall 3 given it has an inbuilt inverter.

Maybe you can upgrade to Powerwall 3 with the rebates? Many are offering free panels up to the size of the Powerwall (11kw)

A failed inverter shouldn't make you question the entire industry... But if that works for you, I'm not going to tell you how to live.

[Travesty]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

The solar installation at my house lasted 8 years before the inverter died, no solar installer I've spoken with will replace *just* the inverter, they all want to replace the panels too.

Most solar installers are crooks in that respect; there's not enough meat on the bone when they're just replacing an inverter. They'll sell it by way of scaring the customer into thinking the new inverters are incompatible with the old PV's.

[Captain Stubing]

Alright, the question is whether you think Elon is sinking Tesla.
The title of the discussion is very limited, and the topic drifting away so quick has shown this, maybe it should be a Yes/No poll.

There are threads dedicated to solar power, batteries etc for those discussions, as well as alternate energy vehicles.


Resume the discussion on the rise or fall of Tesla.
Overt references to politics will be simply deleted.

[Travesty]

Originally Posted by Captain Stubing

Alright, the question is whether you think Elon is sinking Tesla. Resume the discussion on the rise or fall of Tesla.Overt references to politics will be simply deleted.

That's the thing, his fortunes (and that of Tesla LLC) are based on the colour of the wagon he's hitched to.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Travesty

That's the thing, his fortunes (and that of Tesla LLC) are based on the colour of the wagon he's hitched to.

Not really. He pledged his allegiance early, Tesla was going great guns during the campaign, share price was rising, and hit a record high AFTER the election results. That would suggest it has very little to do with the colour he chose.

If you really want to understand why the backlash, go have a read of his tweets from about January onwards. And look at his actions. He has done a lot of damage not just at home, but possibly abroad.

And I say this as a former Elon fan boy :P

Originally Posted by kypez

Maybe you can upgrade to Powerwall 3 with the rebates? Many are offering free panels up to the size of the Powerwall (11kw)

Looks like its not just the vehicles being affected....

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2025/04/...t-toward-musk/


At the end of the day, money talks. If Tesla can show value, pay a good dividend, the stock will go back up and the Tesla brand will be restored. Though directors selling isn't a positive sign.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by kypez

not necessarily smoo. There was a lot of anti EV sentiment when he was aligned with the Dems. Both sides virtue signal in their respective ways.

Elon and Tesla have been the only consistent punching bag for both sides.

Difference is the diaspora bought the product in larger numbers vs the ones now that won't.

Elon aligned himself with Trump to squash the competition especially from China. Only 1 profitable EV company exists in the USA without handouts that the Biden administration were giving. I don't think even he calculated the fallout would've been as bad as it has been. The market read this and it was why the price jumped when Trump got in. No one saw this fallout.

The whole targeting of Musk is purely down to him aligning with the wrong side of politics. Nothing more or less.



Any proof to say Trump wasn’t going to protect the US auto industry from china without Musks influence… Unlike say suicidal Germany, who voted against Chinese vehicle tariffs and happy to throw their auto industry to the dogs.
I actually listened to Musk interview on Joe Rogans podcast from the start of Feb yesterday, and he laid it out pretty clear his motivation for getting behind Trump.
Unfettered illegal immigration into swing states that will guarantee power to the Dems every election going forward.
The fact the country is broke and cannot continue down its current path.


Perhaps if Musk put the R and D money from that hideous cyber truck towards a usable Ranger - F150 alternative, and maybe a small cheap Corolla alternative, the brand would be able to withstand the Chinese onslaught a bit better.

[FG50T]

I don’t think Elon is sinking Tesla, I think the media is.

Not a day has gone by for over a month where a repetitive Tesla/Elon has appeared on my screen. It’s the media’s hottest clickbait since Trump got elected. Naturally it’s stirred up the angst in the Americans who latch on to a political outcry like no one else can. The news cycle repeats.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by smoo

The whole targeting of Musk is purely down to him aligning with the wrong side of politics. Nothing more or less.







Any proof to say Trump wasn’t going to protect the US auto industry from china without Musks influence… Unlike say suicidal Germany, who voted against Chinese vehicle tariffs and happy to throw their auto industry to the dogs.

I actually listened to Musk interview on Joe Rogans podcast from the start of Feb yesterday, and he laid it out pretty clear his motivation for getting behind Trump.

Unfettered illegal immigration into swing states that will guarantee power to the Dems every election going forward.

The fact the country is broke and cannot continue down its current path.





Perhaps if Musk put the R and D money from that hideous cyber truck towards a usable Ranger - F150 alternative, and maybe a small cheap Corolla alternative, the brand would be able to withstand the Chinese onslaught a bit better.

That's the current state, yes. But he and Tesla have been targets for years.

The Chinese tariffs might've always come through but the dismantling of the EV policy in North America was more from Musk joining in. Also getting an inside line into how the Chinese tariffs would look helped Tesla USA; they switched their production almost overnight to US sourced battery packs for the base model cars and stopped using the Chinese LFP varieties ahead of any other manufacturer. They didn't take contractual hits either as the packs were moved to supply Chinese built cars, again reducing Teslas exposure. The scope of this was also interesting that in isn't limited to Chinese brands only but to any component supplied from China. You could call it a coincidence but as they say if it quacks like a duck...

The smaller Model 2/Q is coming. They have put the profits from the other models into that. Covers should come off this year as test mules are already doing the rounds.

[Sprintey]

It's been a great discussion so far, thank you for the replies.

I'd expected the thread to be locked by now to be honest.

The part to focus on was about people's perceptions of self and the cars, and it's true that some do not care about this (me included: would have far fewer and newer cars if I did lol)

Also: there have been stories that the people damaging the Teslas and protesting have actually been put up to it by certain organisations - Elon has claimed this. Ie rent a crowd/rent a riot

[Cav]

Wasn't it Elon who saved that bloke from having to look at his co-astronaut for another how many months?

[Rastas]

Elon has 3 problems
1. He is not very relatable to the vast majority.
2. The western media has for so long now been very pro Dem so he is now a top 3 target of theirs.
3. His biggest problem is about a dozen Chinese brands are nipping at Tesla's heels and one has streaked past them and rapidly pulling away..... The World has alternatives to Tesla now so expect their market to keep shrinking even if most the greeny nerds still thought Elon was the second coming.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Rastas

Elon has 3 problems
1. He is not very relatable to the vast majority.
2. The western media has for so long now been very pro Dem so he is now a top 3 target of theirs.
3. His biggest problem is about a dozen Chinese brands are nipping at Tesla's heels and one has streaked past them and rapidly pulling away..... The World has alternatives to Tesla now so expect their market to keep shrinking even if most the greeny nerds still thought Elon was the second coming.

1. Agree but he was to his buyers (previously)

2. Western media has been anti EV more than pro Dem

3. Sales figures in China for March saw Tesla be the highest selling car in China. They beat the Chinese at home so not sure about number 3.

[Travesty]

Originally Posted by kypez

1. Agree but he was to his buyers (previously) 2. Western media has been anti EV more than pro Dem3. Sales figures in China for March saw Tesla be the highest selling car in China. They beat the Chinese at home so not sure about number 3.

I'd make one clarification/qualifier. The western media have been left leaning progressive mouthpieces, sadly the Dims fall into that category.

[Rastas]

Originally Posted by kypez

1. Agree but he was to his buyers (previously)

2. Western media has been anti EV more than pro Dem

3. Sales figures in China for March saw Tesla be the highest selling car in China. They beat the Chinese at home so not sure about number 3.

Your cherry picking here a bit , yes the model Y sold well but for brands it was Tesla sold 78k and BYD sold over 300k in the China market in March ,with year on year tracking Tesla sales notably down and BYD up - now imagine for a second if China starts acting like good ole US of A and removes Tesla from their market - ouchi .

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Rastas

Your cherry picking here a bit , yes the model Y sold well but for brands it was Tesla sold 78k and BYD sold over 300k in the China market in March ,with year on year tracking Tesla sales notably down and BYD up - now imagine for a second if China starts acting like good ole US of A and removes Tesla from their market - ouchi .

Tesla manufacture there so won't be affected by tariffs. No manufacturers in the US that make cars there are affected (unless they have components coming from overseas).

Not cherry picking. Just calling out that March was really good for them now that the new model Y is ramped there.

[Rastas]

Originally Posted by kypez

Tesla manufacture there so won't be affected by tariffs. No manufacturers in the US that make cars there are affected (unless they have components coming from overseas).

Not cherry picking. Just calling out that March was really good for them now that the new model Y is ramped there.

Yes it was for them (though down 11.5% from last march) but understand Tesla has dominated that market (EV's) for over a decade and it has only been about 2 n a half years now that their locals have started to pump out decent cars with newer improvements like every 2nd month ...... going forward it's not hard to predict where Chinas Tesla sales will be heading.

Oh and I was not meaning Tariffs - I was more thinking about Xi's patience on how much longer he puts up with the US led anti China stance before he tells everything USA to pack their bags and leave.
Tesla and Apple the biggest casualties.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Cav

Wasn't it Elon who saved that bloke from having to look at his co-astronaut for another how many months?

image

Bloke spends 9 months up there only to return to earth and see this.

[Sprintey]

Wolf Street dissected world and Californian sales and reckons Elon has damaged the brand, and had it on the nose in Cali since mid 2023:

https://wolfstreet.com/2025/04/02/oh...nsumer-brands/

"Musk is crushing one of the best-known consumer brands ever, after so successfully bringing it to the top. We watched this peculiar phenomenon beginning to unfold in California starting in 2023. The state is Tesla’s largest market in the US. Californians were huge fans of Tesla, a company founded in California, and the only automaker to have an assembly plant in California.

We get vehicle registrations data in California on a quarterly basis, so we can look at the gory details. Mid-2023 was when Tesla’s potential customers in California turned sour on Musk, and therefore on Tesla, after the BS he’d been piling on them, and they bought other EVs. Then in Q2 2024, Tesla sales plunged 24% year-over-year, while non-Tesla EV sales soared 45%. And we wondered at the time in the headline: People Have Had it with Musk’s Bullshit about California and San Francisco?

Then in Q4 2024, as Tesla sales plunged and non-Tesla EV sales continued to soar, Tesla was surpassed by non-Tesla EVs."

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Wolf Street dissected world and Californian sales and reckons Elon has damaged the brand, and had it on the nose in Cali since mid 2023

You cant really consider what happens in california as being any real measure of what happens in the rest of the world..... californians are kinda..... Special

[Travesty]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

You cant really consider what happens in california as being any real measure of what happens in the rest of the world..... californians are kinda..... Special

This. It's a concentrated microcosm of insanity and cognitive dissonance.

[Sprintey]

It's a bowl of fruit loops with extra flavours.

Here, Elon himself reckons his work at DOGE has damaged Tesla's stock price:

https://www.theepochtimes.com/us/mus...-stock-5834387

[b0son]

Originally Posted by kypez

They are still ahead of everyone when you break down the tech.

How many buyers shop on tech? Most shop on a basis of features, looks and price. If you dont like Tesla's bland styling (inside and out), you look elsewhere. Tesla isnt even on my radar. I think they're ugly with weird proportions, and while the Model S should be on my wish list, when I see them, I still see the car that was released initially all those years ago now. And when a car looks largely like it did nearly a decade ago, it's hard to get excited about whatever new tech is under the skin. It's superficial, but it is what it is.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by b0son

How many buyers shop on tech? Most shop on a basis of features, looks and price. If you dont like Tesla's bland styling (inside and out), you look elsewhere. Tesla isnt even on my radar. I think they're ugly with weird proportions, and while the Model S should be on my wish list, when I see them, I still see the car that was released initially all those years ago now. And when a car looks largely like it did nearly a decade ago, it's hard to get excited about whatever new tech is under the skin. It's superficial, but it is what it is.

It's how that tech is represented though. When it's represented as features, efficiency and reduced cost, they buy it.

Simple things like the having profiles linked to seat and steering wheel adjustments (our Falcons had this years ago but without the steering wheel adjustment). Being able to walk up to the car and the AC, music stations, Spotify accounts, etc all synced to your settings is awesome. Having a neutral position to help both tall and short people get into the car (customisable by you) is awesome as well.

Better range on their cars and plenty of performance (all tech).

7 years later, and I still get software updates to our car. Map updates, new features, all for free month after month over the air. No going to a dealer to flash the system.

So yeah, a lot of people come to the brand due to this. The others aren't there yet. Sync 4 has seen Sync 3 improvements disappear. That isn't the case here.

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by kypez

Being able to walk up to the car and the AC, music stations, Spotify accounts, etc all synced to your settings is awesome.

Nothing alarms me more, as I prefer to be focused on my desire to travel safely, efficiently. If I want comfortable entertainment that doesn’t frighten the horses, I’ll lie on the floor and watch YT.

And I still believe the antics of Mr M are likely hurting the long term prospects of Tesla - but I also believe that he basically doesn’t care about it a whole lot.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Nothing alarms me more, as I prefer to be focused on my desire to travel safely, efficiently. If I want comfortable entertainment that doesn’t frighten the horses, I’ll lie on the floor and watch YT.



And I still believe the antics of Mr M are likely hurting the long term prospects of Tesla - but I also believe that he basically doesn’t care about it a whole lot.

It's voice driven and you can't use YT, etc when you're in motion (though the new rear screen allows you to do that).

These are why people came to the brand and the good that Elon did do. He reduced waste (when CCS came out as the standard, BMW simply said you need to buy the new model; Tesla retrofitted it for a few hundred dollars).

Got to remember that he opened all patents as well (as was the tradition of Nikola who never enforced a patent).

It's a shame he has gone off the deep end now.

[Cav]

Largest selling car in the world and how quickly people write him off

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by kypez

It's only interesting if you have never changed your opinion about something in your life which is sad in itself. This isn't a religion.

Heck, I said I'd never own an EV in my life and would only drive V8's.

It's good to have your beliefs challenged and to change your opinions when presented with new information.

ROFL

Yeah, but it's NOT good to change your beliefs about, say the taste of Vegemite, because you see a man in Sweden wearing a pink bow-tie.

So changing your opinion about EVs, because one person associated with them supports a politician, in a foreign country, is ridiculous

The Irony is that the Hippies SHOULD be LOVING Musk.

The Biggest challenge to EV adoption (and batteries, etc) was going to be convincing the Rednecks. Now one of the biggest advocates, is a hero to the Rednecks.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

ROFL



Yeah, but it's NOT good to change your beliefs about, say the taste of Vegemite, because you see a man in Sweden wearing a pink bow-tie.



So changing your opinion about EVs, because one person associated with them supports a politician, in a foreign country, is ridiculous



The Irony is that the Hippies SHOULD be LOVING Musk.



The Biggest challenge to EV adoption (and batteries, etc) was going to be convincing the Rednecks. Now one of the biggest advocates, is a hero to the Rednecks.

Don't people get tired of misquoting others or conveniently excluding context?!

Hippies don't want you driving any cars. They want us in buses, bicycles and trains.

This is the problem with incorrect beliefs that far left people bought EVs. It was always the moderates.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

You cant really consider what happens in california as being any real measure of what happens in the rest of the world..... californians are kinda..... Special

5th Largest economy in the World if it were a country though.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

5th Largest economy in the World if it were a country though.

Was going to say they've only given us smartphones, tablets, social media, almost all tech you can think of but I was worried it sounded political/off topic.