Battery failure - how can we avoid it?

[Ken_L]

The 5 year old battery in my Magna failed suddenly today. With hardly any warning apart from a very slight amount of extra cranking to start the engine for a few weeks, the battery literally dropped dead in a shopping centre car park. It didn't even have enough power to run the radio!

The NRMA replaced the battery and off we went, but as we waited I reflected that batteries are the weakest link in a well maintained car. Just think about how carefully most keen car owners service their vehicles, to maintain the ability to just start it any time and go anywhere, no questions asked. No service centre or mechanic, however, will really be able to predict the sudden failure of the modern car battery. What if it fails at a remote spot in the boondocks, out of mobile phone range?

Has anyone out there come up with a foolproof way of preventing being dumped, anywhere, anytime, by battery failure? I guess we could simply replace it routinely every two years, but that sounds a tad expensive. Would a more expensive battery, say gel technology, be any better?

[mik]

5 years is totally awesome life for a battery, run 2 batterys is one way, change them religiousley every 2 years, dont buy cheaper batterys some super market type ones dont seem too last in my experience, bought a few from the mart they dont seem to have the staying power like some others in my opinion.

[mik]

there`s always the crank handle :

[fairmont1998]

5 years? I'd be pretty happy that now is the only time it has inconvenienced me...

[Ken_L]

Hi Mik. Yes, I agree, 5 years is very good these days. It was the original Mitsubishi battery. My "complaint" is really about the sudden death syndrome - in the old days, batteries used to give fair warning by gradually losing puff.

Speaking of old days, you're betraying age with your reference to crank handles! The last time I hand cranked a car was 40 years ago. They don't seem to fit them any more!

[roth]

You said it yourself, Ken - "slight bit of extra cranking required to start the engine for a few weeks".

If you are as old as you indicate you would have recognised the signs - especially as the battery was over two years old.

[Pedro]

This product could be of interest:- www.megapulse.net/FAB/index.htm

[351ciofgrunt]

5 years is plenty from a car battery...theres a new range of sealed batteries that are meant to be pretty good but i dont have any other info

[Bill M]

I got 8 years out of a Hitachi battery, it came in a new 1994 Nissan Bluebird.
I put the long life to checking the fluid level regularly which was easy as the case was translucent. My AUII XR6 ute still has the original battery which I will now check! I think some replacement batteries have short lives as they are not maintained by the sellers as they should be when sitting for extended periods of time prior to sale.
cheers
Bill.

[eagleaus]

I can thumbs up what Pedro posted.MegaPulse helps in getting the most life out of a battery (family members have them fitted).5 years is still damn good.My magna when i had one lasted only two years!! and its replacement 3 years.

[XR Martin]

Odyssey batteries a designed to last 10-12 years.

[ratter]

If you have the correct equipment, a battery can be checked by checking it's CCA amp rating. The CCA will slowly diminish as the battery get older although the voltage may stay consistant.

Think of the CCA as the storage capacity of the battery, as it diminish's the battery has less ability to store voltage.

[Ken_L]

Originally Posted by roth

You said it yourself, Ken - "slight bit of extra cranking required to start the engine for a few weeks".

If you are as old as you indicate you would have recognised the signs - especially as the battery was over two years old.

You're absolutely right, roth. I just assumed the battery was slightly down because of too many short trips. My only defence here is that the reluctance to turn over was very slight and only noticable first thing on a cold morning. As far as the battery age was concerned, I must confess to completely ignoring it. No excuse, not even my age!

[GASWAGON]

I just had to replace my $140 18month old battery due to two hard starting problems which did permanent damage as a result and ruined it.....After fitting the new one this week i was wondering the same things on how to prolong battery life as 2yrs is just ridiculous.....Heat and vibration are also detrimental too......After checking that MegaPulse site i'm blown away by how it basically reverses the cause of 'most' batteries lives......These should be standard fitment for obvious environmental and cost reasons.....I'm getting one tmrw to try and recoupe my old battery now!

[eagleaus]

Particularly good if your always recharging a battery.Like a battery used in a caravan, being flattened and recharged (cycled) all the time.

[whynot]

Ken,

In short, “sort of”. The only way is to test and if it falls out of specifications then replace before failure.

When I was a young electrician, drawing the short straw meant doing routine battery checks on the standby batteries. Testing hundreds (literally) of 2 V 200 A.hr standby batteries for their monthly check.

The nominal voltage for a fully charged wet lead acid battery is 2.1 volts per cell. This equates to 12.65 volts on a nominal 12 volt car battery. So, one quick check is to measure the battery voltage when the engine is not running and there is no load. It should be 12.65 volts at the terminal.

12.65V 100%
12.45V 75%
12.24V 50%
12.06V 25%
11.89V or less Discharged

The notional float charge for stationary standby batteries is 2.25 to 2.27 volts per cell. Car alternators, however, apply terminal voltage anywhere between 13.8 to 14.4 volts (2.3 to 2.4 volts per cell). This boost voltage helps recharge the battery quicker (useful for short trips) at the expense of battery life.

Many consider to the best way of assessing battery life is to do a discharge test. You will need the discharge graphs for that particular battery (internet is handy). Apply a discharge, say, 10 A/hr. Calculate from the graph the expected time down to, say, 25% (example 5.2 hours). If the battery makes the time it is good, otherwise it is replaced.

These days there is more focus on test instruments that use internal resistance and capacitance to gauge the health of the battery. Some interesting reading can be found here …

http://www.electroline.com.au/elc/fe...em_102004b.asp
http://www.cadex.ru/files/spectro.pdf

The problem is that these test devices can cost into the thousands of dollars, and a car battery is under a hundred.

One characteristic that is often noted is that towards the end of their life, water consumption increases. My personal rule is that if it needs topping more than every few months I replace it.

Heat soak is also a real killer for batteries. They should not be exposed to temperatures above 50C, but we all know how hot an engine bay can get in the middle of summer. So a life extension technique is to fit a suitable heat shield.

But five years out of a car battery is excellent.

[Ken_L]

Originally Posted by whynot

Ken,

In short, “sort of”. The only way is to test and if it falls out of specifications then replace before failure.
.....So, one quick check is to measure the battery voltage when the engine is not running and there is no load. It should be 12.65 volts at the terminal.

12.65V 100%
12.45V 75%
12.24V 50%
12.06V 25%
11.89V or less Discharged

That certainly sounds simple, whynot, and I've read about instruments called "chargicators" that use such voltage measurements to indicate the energy left in boat battery banks. I see from the NRMA battery service report that my dead battery was indicating 12.42 volts but that it had an internal short. If voltage alone was read, we should have inferred that it had, say, 70% charge, but it barely had enough power to run the digital clock in the car.

The discharge tests suggested in this thread seem to be positive proof of a sick battery. As it happens, there is a dedicated battery shop near where I live that quite cheerfully runs a CCA discharge test for you, and tells you if it's OK. Perhaps I should visit them on a regular basis.

I'll also check out Odyssey batteries and the Magnapulse. Thanks to all of you for your posts - although this has not been specific to Territorys, ANY vehicle with a lead acid battery has this achilles heel.

[ratter]

Originally Posted by Ken_L

The discharge tests suggested in this thread seem to be positive proof of a sick battery. As it happens, there is a dedicated battery shop near where I live that quite cheerfully runs a CCA discharge test for you, and tells you if it's OK. Perhaps I should visit them on a regular basis.

.

Any retailer that sells century batteries normall have a up to date battery tester that test the CCA rating.

[BPXR6T]

Sort of related, I had been told that sitting car battery on a concrete floor would cause the battery to die. I was also told that cold weather is when all the battery places do there best business. The below link seems to support that.

http://www.repairfaq.org/ELE/F_Car_B...CARBATTERY_026

[39ClevoUte]

Bottom line is most regular batteries in your "average" car last about three years. You can go back to the good old days and spend $1000 labour and parts on testing a $100 battery for it's three year life or just replace it when it fails or shows signs of failing.
About a month ago I bought a new motorcraft battery for my 2003 Ghia from ford for $100, because over the previous few weeks the cranking has been progressively slower and I knew it was comming up to that magic three years. Now it's replaced the starter seems twice as fast and staying that way, I can't believe the difference.

I still maintain though that you can waist a lot of time and energy stuffing around on what is basically a consumable these days.

[uranium_death]

The best way to avoid battery failure is to not have a battery at all...

But that would be pointless now wouldn't it?

Hmmm...maybe our battery needs a change as it starts like **** often. Ours is 6 years old and came with the car in 2000. VTII.

[ED Classic]

Its not uncommon for 10 year old Toyotas that were built in Japan to still be on their original Japenese Battery.

[woodsy109]

I have been using delkor sealed batteries for a while now and I know almost for certain that it will fail at about 2yrs and 3mths. They have a 2yr warranty and my last two have failed in the exact same month. It could be coincidence but they also both failed suddenly when one cell collasped.

My next one is not going to be delkor.

[Ken_L]

Originally Posted by 54Ghia

Bottom line is most regular batteries in your "average" car last about three years. ....l maintain though that you can waist a lot of time and energy stuffing around on what is basically a consumable these days.

Yes, I agree that batteries are a consumable, just as much as tyres or engine oil. However, my problem with batteries is their unpredictability - they can be dead in a brand new car before you even leave the showroom, or they can last 8 to 10 years. It's a bit like asking how long a light globe will last - you only find out when it snuffs out.

Even adopting a policy of replacing the battery every 2 years, for example, will not help if the damn thing decides to drop dead at any time during those 2 years. The battery is definitely the weakest link, but unfortunately we can't just throw it out. :

[39ClevoUte]

Yeah I know what you mean. There seems to be two types of failures:

1) Starts to slow down after 3 years or so and then "fails" on a hard start (which it probably created)

2) Suddenly goes "open", dead.

re point 2) I've cut open a few of these dead cell jobbies and what the real cause is the way the cells are joined. In the ones I've cut open the cells are joined together by a male female friction fit (think finger in a hole). This explains why sometimes after driving on rough roads the next start fails. All the cells test OK, sometimes you can even operate lights and instrunments, but any high load (eg starting) fails due to the "finger" being loose in the "hole", same effect as loose terminal.

[Ken_L]

Originally Posted by 54Ghia

Yeah I know what you mean. There seems to be two types of failures:

1) Starts to slow down after 3 years or so and then "fails" on a hard start (which it probably created)

2) Suddenly goes "open", dead.

re point 2) I've cut open a few of these dead cell jobbies and what the real cause is the way the cells are joined. In the ones I've cut open the cells are joined together by a male female friction fit (think finger in a hole). This explains why sometimes after driving on rough roads the next start fails. All the cells test OK, sometimes you can even operate lights and instrunments, but any high load (eg starting) fails due to the "finger" being loose in the "hole", same effect as loose terminal.

I just wish someone would make a battery the way they used to - massively heavy (almost needed a forklift to lift a 12v battery) and died gracefully slow deaths from old age. Modern ones are too light for the amp-hours they pack, plates too close and active material too thin.

By the way, are gel batteries more reliable (ie, not prone to "sudden death syndrome")?

[Cokeford]

A battery should last a good 3yrs on average. there isn't really a known sign of death... it usually craps itself when u least expected. guess u can replace the battery every 3yrs or so.