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12-08-2009, 07:36 AM | #61 | |||
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12-08-2009, 10:12 AM | #62 | ||
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Ignoring any potential climate change issue, the reality is that oil is a finite resource and will run out eventually. Many may not realise it but oil is the lifeblood of modern society - even ignoring transportation and fuels - oil is used in the production of almost everything from electronics to fertilisers (without which industrial-scale farming would not be possible).
If you ignore the doomsday dramatics, http://lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/ is a very sobering read. Anything we can do to reduce our reliance on oil is a good thing. If we can find an alternative for transportation, then what's left will last a lot longer for all the other things oil is required for. |
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12-08-2009, 10:19 AM | #63 | |||
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12-08-2009, 11:22 AM | #64 | ||
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Chemistry is an exact science and measurements of past and present C02 levels can be obtained and are numerous and accurate enough that these measurements are not disputed within the scientific community.
So it is scientific fact that C02 levels in our atmosphere are far above normal compared to the previous 50,000 years at least. What this will cause exactly is what this entire debate is over. Global climate systems are so incredibly complex and intricate with such a staggering number of factors involved that there are thousands of theories, models and opinions (from the extremely positive to the extremely negative) on what the effect of all this extra C02 will have. But IMO this is where the debate has become unproductive and unhelpful. It should be assumed that such a change in the composition of the atmosphere will affect it adversely.
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12-08-2009, 12:31 PM | #65 | |||
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12-08-2009, 01:41 PM | #66 | |||
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I'll just assume all those who believe whole heartedly, are nieve and gullible. Watch out chicken little, the sky is falling. Very few people dispute ' climate change '... ' global warming ' however, and that its caused primarily by human influence maybe. In fact, I dare say 90% of people here are all for greener initiatives and the development of greener, safer and cleaner infrustrature. Shock Docs, guilt trips, flashing lingo adopted by MTV and indie rock bands.. at the end of the day, average joe arguing about it with Billy from down the street isnt going to change a thing, the goverments, the corporations are the ones with the power to make real change... but then again, climate change must be so high on their list of things to tackle, because in 5 or so years since the debate, no pun intended.. heated up thanks to a little doco.. no body has done anything outside of entertain the idea and use urbandictionary.com to make sure Gen Y is listening. |
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12-08-2009, 04:10 PM | #67 | ||
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The facts of the matter , are quite simple if its real or not australian's cant do a thing unless a aussie convinces india,china and the u.s.a to do there part.
The whole point is to make the planet a better place for future generations now if we go ahead with this carbon trading scheme future generations daily commute to work maybe to china,india or over countries that did nothing and we will still feel the effects of what ever whether that we will have . Personally i dont want to suffer just because some pollie can feel special. The carbon trading scheme will destroy australia and or way of life and will not change a thing for the planet - That is a fact Good article in the paper today http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sto...000117,00.html |
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12-08-2009, 05:39 PM | #68 | |||
Za Dom spremni
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Gotta love you leftwingers, you warned me about doing research did you,? So you point me to a left wing blog as youre "gotcha" ? wow slam dunk !!! LMAO. Meanwhile my link was to a U.S senate commite on Environment and public works web site. Hey it works both ways doesnt it. ........and if Im a redneck with my head in the sand I guess youre a sheeple and part of the head in the clouds brigade. No comment on the Mars story either ? no...? whatever, you believe what you want to believe, Im glad there are enough people questioning it to cause a debate. ..and for the record I still have an open mind on the matter and in actual fact I am more of a fence sitter.
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12-08-2009, 05:58 PM | #69 | ||
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I've read lots from both sides of the coin & still don't believe humans have any significant control of the weather.
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12-08-2009, 07:38 PM | #70 | |||
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What are Ian Pilmer's ulterior motives, business as usual in the mining industry, whether it be coal, bauxite....whatever, did he reveal his share portfolio in his book?. Governments rolling with GW to make money? Yeh, like ours and the US? they have done everything to deny it up to the past year or so. That is why johnny howard ignored the CSIRO advice to act on GW. Get real, GW is the last thing western governments want to tackle, all the nonsense atm in our parliament, just a smoke screen to do nothing. Last edited by torbirdie; 12-08-2009 at 07:46 PM. |
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12-08-2009, 07:44 PM | #71 | ||
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...nge-scepticism
Professor Ian Plimer has agreed to answer specific criticisms of his book. This will be interesting for both sides of the debate.
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12-08-2009, 08:00 PM | #72 | |||
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Wasn't al gore sued because his movie was proven false
(edit) type this in to google an pick the article you wish to read al gore sued by over 30.000 scientists for fraud Quote:
Last edited by snappy84; 12-08-2009 at 08:05 PM. |
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12-08-2009, 08:10 PM | #73 | |||
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfHW7KR33IQ
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12-08-2009, 08:26 PM | #74 | |||
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those that debate the issue based on what the believe Al Gore says? Tells us how much they have bothered to do serious research on the issue. Start reading scientific publications journals etc, yes, they are available at any public library. CO2s role in trapping and redirecting the energy from infra red radiation is not theory(greenhouse effect), its fact as is the increased energy that is trappped when the CO2 levels are increased, this was established ~30 years ago. Last edited by torbirdie; 12-08-2009 at 08:33 PM. |
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12-08-2009, 08:39 PM | #75 | |||
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still no retort on the nat geo article about mars heating up .... just a coincidence right ?
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12-08-2009, 08:41 PM | #76 | |||
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I dont know what to think . Im not sure if global warming is true or false . I just know if the carbon trading scheme will cripple the country anyway. An the other thing that bothers me is the year green party got so large was the same year they said they would legalise pot and eccies . Hard to believe when one minute it was global warming - then proof the world is cooling , all of a sudden it now called climate change . Oh and we are going to tax you for it. But we are not actually going to do anything to stop it we are just going to charge you more so it will make you think twice about turning on the light switch. An the majority of people are all for it . the ignorance is over welming. Future generations are going to look back at us and laugh . |
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12-08-2009, 09:02 PM | #77 | ||
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I personally don't believe in global warming. I think its a massive scam so that someone can make a crap load of money.
All you have to do is look at past temps, and you can see that it appears to be a natural cycle. Also, isn't it true that the earth does not rotate in the same spot years after years, and the distance between the earth and sun is always changing - hence the change in temps. I've seen alot of diagrams and pictures with good stats on them that show CO is not having the impact that al gore makes it out to. I'll see if I can find them and post em up. Cheers |
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12-08-2009, 09:19 PM | #78 | |||
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I came a little late to read all of this but I read the first page anyways.
Between the 1500's and 1700's were three Little Ice Ages. I capitalize the words Little Ice Ages because that is how it is in history books. Man did not cause these. The Earth warmed again as well. Man didn't cause that then either. Some co-workers told me about learning of Global Cooling when they were in college in the 1970's. Man-made Global Cooling was going to shorten the growing seasons around the world creating a food shortage, blah, blah, blah and the evidence of Global Cooling was overwhelming. By 1990 things would be really bad. Here is an article from a very popular and respected magazine, Newsweek, from April of 1975 about Global Cooling... http://www.denisdutton.com/cooling_world.htm Quote:
At minimum, it shows a possibility that the "experts" can be wrong. At maximum it shows that this crap has been perpetuated before. Last year I was only able to go swimming in my pool 3 times because the weather did not warrant it, nor warm my pool enough, to do so. Back in 1998-99 (can't remember) when we got the pool our temperature here in Ohio shot up into the 90's (F) in MAY!! This is usually still our Spring time. It was like someone flipped a switch and turned on summer. Ninety degree temps are not unusual for this area. They are normal, just not in May. This summer we got our first 90 degree day on this past Sunday, August 9. THIS is unusual. July was a record low with temperatures in the 60's and 70's, with 50's overnight. It was the coolest July I ever remember (I'm 45). Meteorologists in the area stated we were in a Spring/Fall weather pattern in the middle of Summer. Is there pollution? Of course. Does this mostly ground level pollution affect the global climate as it is being perpetuated? I really do NOT believe so. We are told the ice caps are melting. Recent articles show that while the eastern ice shelf in Antarctica has decreased in size the western shelf has grown. Is the ice in Antarctica the same now as it was 150 years ago? No. Was it the same 50 years ago as it was 150 years ago? No. So why does anyone expect it to stay the same? It is an ever changing region, just like the rest of the world. We are told Polar Bears are endangered because of the Arctic ice melting away. The WWF shows a video of a mother bear and her cub on a small piece of ice and then swimming off in the water to try to illustrate that there isn't enough ice for them. The footage that was used was shot in August which would be about the warmest period for the region. There are 9 groups of bears and only 2 are in decline in numbers, according to a scientist that had been studying Polar Bears for 30 years, who was incidently barred from a meeting of scientists which he had attended for 27 years because he was told his findings were "counter productive" to the bear's plight. Yeah, can't let facts get in the way of the ruse. By the way, the polar ice was the thickest it had been in years this past winter. The Earth has never stayed the same, why does anyone expect it to stay the same now? I am going to capitalize on this. I am going to buy a building, big one, and get a license for a foundry business. That is pretty dirty and so that I can produce products that will help improve the economy I would be alloted a good amount of carbon emmissions. So I will NOT make a thing. I will leave my building empty, and with my Foundry License I will instead SELL MY CARBON CREDITS to companies that need to put more pollution into the air. The fact that my credits will be unused (I am not making pollution) means I can sell every credit and amount of volume I am permitted to emit to companies that really are emitting a lot of pollution. This way they get to keep polluting, I make LOTS OF MONEY for doing nothing, and the world becomes a better place.......isn't that how that goes? Cabon credits, not worth the paper they are written on. It is only an "idea". Now, carbon dioxide, a NATURALLY OCCURING ELEMENT, has been deemed in the US as a "Pollutant!" Everyone needs a license to breathe now, I guess. Want to read something funny? Find out how much carbon dioxide is emitted from belching when drinking soda pop/carbonated drinks. On a country-wide or global scale it is emmense!!!!!! But that is ok too. If there was a real concern they would stop the production of soda-pop. Hasn't happened so there must be no real concern. 3 or 4 years ago we had about 10 hurricanes make land in the US (usually have 3-4). The Global Warming people went nuts!!!! "SEE THAT!!! IT'S GLOBAL WARMING!" The following year there was 1, I think, if any. The silence from the Global Warming crowd was deafening. In the end, those that promote Climate Change (since the Global Warming thing isn't working out anymore) the most and are the most concerned about it should stop breathing and exhaling carbon dioxide, which is destroying the Earth, so that the rest of us can go on with our lives. Steve
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12-08-2009, 09:26 PM | #79 | |||||
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12-08-2009, 09:39 PM | #80 | ||
Za Dom spremni
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you offer nothing but attacks on people that disagree with you... its people like you that make me more skeptical
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12-08-2009, 09:45 PM | #81 | |||
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The sun's sunspot activity has 11 year cycles of increasing and decreasing. Look into it right now. Last year had the least number of sunspots in a loonng time. This year is on record of being the same or even less. It is measured in days with or without sunspot activity. Sunspots are the cause of solar flares and the amount of radiation spewed into the solar system. With the reduced activity of the last two years particularly the scientists that study them are hesitant to say that this is the reason for the cooling of the Earth now, probably due to ridicule and not being "on the bandwagon" if they were to say so. As far as the Earth's elliptical travel around the sun (increasing/decreasing distance), perhaps that is why the Earth's climate always changes as well through out history, or at least has some affect? I don't know but I am sure it is at least as possible as cow belching having an affect on climate change. Personally, when it is a hotter year than the year or years before I say it is hot. When it is cooler than the years before (like last year and this year) I say it is cooler. I admit the temperature has been higher, and I am saying right now that it IS cooler.......only a couple days in July with 80 degree temps, no 90's, and a lot of 70's.....REALLY cool for summer in Ohio. Do I think this means that the Earth's climate has forever detrimentally changed by man? No. I say this with conviction, no doubt as to whether I belive in the former Global Warming/now more convenient Climate Change when the first idea didn't work out because temperatures reversed and not enough money was made off of it yet. Steve
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12-08-2009, 10:05 PM | #82 | ||
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Steve, your example of the "global cooling" has got me wondering........
Is it possible that people are riding on the back of global warming for their own ends? Daniel |
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12-08-2009, 10:09 PM | #83 | ||||
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Perhaps being on the board of directors of several mining companies? or did you miss that one? |
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12-08-2009, 10:24 PM | #84 | ||
Za Dom spremni
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does that disqualify him of presenting facts...?
do we all have to be members of the green party do we ? Even if he was count Dracula it still doesnt change any of the facts does it. After all, it is about the facts . Discredit the facts... Seriously....its the usual left wing style, go after someone and discredit them instead of countering his arguments. and for the 4th time, the nat geo article ? from here on in I think I will defer to ohioXb as he seems to be able to articulate it more clearly if you're willing to listen.
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12-08-2009, 10:55 PM | #85 | |||
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he has just presented his opinion with nothing to back it up. I dont have to discredit "his facts" because as I understand it he hasnt presented any. Why not read this link presented earlier:http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...nge-scepticism he has been already taken to task on the errors/lies in his book and he has failed to respond. i did warn people to carefully check out the background of any gw skeptic they want to ride with, but you ignored that advice and now you are crying foul that you're being exposed for backing a dud. Get over it! Last edited by torbirdie; 12-08-2009 at 11:13 PM. |
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12-08-2009, 11:22 PM | #86 | ||
Za Dom spremni
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Wow what a surprise, another BLOG !! and a journalist no less asking questions of him, a scientist. The same scientist that you so quickly dismiss but a journalist, no he has more credibility.
Fair enough, why did you forget to mention he doesnt want to debate him until his questions are answered first, why not just debate him face to face ? Oh thats right he needs his google search enging to find a counter fact. Have you watched any of the Pilmer videos.. is it all 100% lies ? This means nothing, its just a journalist with obvious leanings but of course to you this is slam dunk. and yes I would be interested in him answering some of those questions too, because I am open minded !!! but id imagine even if he did have answers it still wouldnt be enough for you. edit...and this guy is credible is he. He's a friggin far left nitwit http://www.monbiot.com/archives/category/war-afghanistan/
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2017 red mustang GT manual XB coupe 351 4spd sunroof onyx black XBGT 4 door Sunroof apollo blue AU III XR8 red ute Last edited by anto; 12-08-2009 at 11:36 PM. |
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12-08-2009, 11:55 PM | #87 | ||
Za Dom spremni
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wow and hes making money out of a book too,..go figure
Monbiot purchased a Renault Clio (diesel) after moving to a small town in mid-Wales in 2007, leading to charges of hypocrisy.[29] Similarly he has also travelled through Canada and the United States, campaigning on climate change and promoting his book. He contends that this travel was justifiable as it sought to boost the case for much greater carbon cuts there.[30][31]
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13-08-2009, 01:11 AM | #88 | |||
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..................... Actually for all the people that believe we are causing climate change. Would people agree to changing our dirty coal power station (50% of Australia's emissions or about 0.8% of the worlds) to Nuclear power, remember Australia stores other countries waste so that isn't a problem?
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13-08-2009, 06:57 AM | #89 | |||
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As far as I know, the journalist isnt the one making claims. His credibility isnt the question here, he has asked very straight forward questions(which you can view) to which he has not got any answers. Pilmer's obvious tactics are to create a confrontation, an area where he excels(he is a first class public speaker) and create other distortions, that will stop disguise his dodging of the issues. That is why the journalist insists on receiving answers to the questions first. He, like myself, likes to see the cold hard issues in writing, rather than the theatrical abilities of people in debating, where some people can convince others and belittle the opposing speaker no matter how pathetic their won case is, ie Paul Keating style. If Pilmer thinks the journalist is being deceptive, hiding something, he can ask for a list of questions to be answered too. Would you have any trouble with a doctor who is a member of the board of a cigarette company writing a book telling us how smoking can not cause cancer? But You seem intent on backing this guy to the end of the earth? Last edited by torbirdie; 13-08-2009 at 07:11 AM. |
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13-08-2009, 07:32 AM | #90 | |||
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Once upon a time, doctors thought there was medicinal benefit in people smoking, do you want to hang on to that idea too? Or you dont wont to believe anything modern medicine now tells you and completely disregard the medical advice given today based on how someone didnt get it completely right 50 years ago, why should I believe them today logic. |
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