New Ford Boss V8 800nm torque!!!!

sleekism · 26-09-2007, 11:47 AM

Has anybody else heard about Ford developing a twin turbo version of the new Hurricane V8. It's rumoured to be DOHC 6.2L with a big fat turbo per cylinder bank and a healthy 800nm plus of torque.

Why is it that we are the ones with the large rear wheel drive platform with enough bonnet space to take any engine in the Ford lineup yet are still persevering with the same na 290kw V8 from 2003.

Hopefully if Ford gets an export deal to the US they will HAVE to have the best engines so as not to have the Falcon royally rogered by the Mustang in performance.

Powdered Toast Man · 26-09-2007, 12:01 PM

Why would Ford care if the Mustang is more powerful than the Falcon? They are made by the same company. In fact that's the way it should be.

The Falcon needs to be sold as a mass market family saloon in the US, not just a performance sedan. That's a more aussie tradition anyway.

fou_bleu · 26-09-2007, 12:10 PM

Well, if we can make both a family sedans and high performance sedans, it proves what talant FoA has! :P

sleekism · 26-09-2007, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man

Why would Ford care if the Mustang is more powerful than the Falcon? They are made by the same company. In fact that's the way it should be.

The Falcon needs to be sold as a mass market family saloon in the US, not just a performance sedan. That's a more aussie tradition anyway.

The money is in sports and luxury sedans not taxis.

Besides I thought it was traditionally common practice to offer every V8 across the range. eg. the FE family big blocks were offered across the range in U.S. in Torino etc. The Mustang is a pony car not a muscle car. The fire breathing V8's should be offered in the big, boofy, rear drive cars for strip duties as traditionally was the case.

billsta · 26-09-2007, 01:25 PM

For starters with that much torque, there's alot to consider eg; driveline and tyres.
That's alot of torque, any approx KW figures to match?
Where does it make peak torque and how widespread is it across the rev range?

Powdered Toast Man · 26-09-2007, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

The money is in sports and luxury sedans not taxis.

Besides I thought it was traditionally common practice to offer every V8 across the range. eg. the FE family big blocks were offered across the range in U.S. in Torino etc. The Mustang is a pony car not a muscle car. The fire breathing V8's should be offered in the big, boofy, rear drive cars for strip duties as traditionally was the case.

Not since the 70's though. The most powerful V8 Ford sedan you can get nowadays is a 4.6L powered Crown Vic. But big powerful sedans are coming back into fashion in the US with the Charger (large hemi powered 4 door sedan), 300C and Pontiac G8 (Commodore SS) leading the charge.

My point was the Mustang, while only a pony car, should be the Ford performance pinnacle for the average American Joe IMO (ie cant afford a Ford GT). That's my impression of the way American Ford fans think anyway. Not a muscle car? Tell that to an owner of a 428CJ or 429 powered 'stang. Other "pony" cars include the 400 cube Trans Ams and 440 Hemi powered 'Cudas and Challengers. There's probably a lot more. :eclipsee_

And the money isn't in sports and luxury, it is in taxis. Falcon used to be the biggest selling car in Australia because of fleet sales of "taxi pack" spec cars, and Holden are now doing the same.

Truth be told there isn't all that much money in large sedans at all any more.

sleekism · 26-09-2007, 01:47 PM

Heres an extract from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Boss_engine

Later high-performance versions will be equipped with DOHC 4-valve heads and Gasoline direct injection (GDI). A "TwinForce" 6.2 L DOHC 4-valve, twin-turbo, GDI version of the Boss is currently being developed and has reportedly produced over 650 ft·lbf (881 N·m) in initial testing.

Make that 900nm of torque

FordFella · 26-09-2007, 03:34 PM

If that torque is made at 2000rpm (which is roughly when most turboed big engined cars torque peaks), it would be making roughly 300 kws. And remember that is just at 2000rpm! If the car were making that torque at 4500rpm (which certainly isn't unreasonable - look at the typhoon), the car would be pounding out over 600kw! Perhaps the GTHO being the fastest sedan in the world isn't impossible.
That said, it is highly unlikely that this engine will make it in its current form. Emission regs, longetivity and fuel will bring it down. However, in production it would probably still be ~450kw - it has to be in order to compete with the rumoured supercharged LSwhatever engines.

billsta · 26-09-2007, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

Heres an extract from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Boss_engine

Later high-performance versions will be equipped with DOHC 4-valve heads and Gasoline direct injection (GDI). A "TwinForce" 6.2 L DOHC 4-valve, twin-turbo, GDI version of the Boss is currently being developed and has reportedly produced over 650 ft·lbf (881 N·m) in initial testing.

Make that 900nm of torque

Damn the TwinForce 6.2L sounds awesome...definately an engine worthy of a HO or a newly named supercar killer from fpv......

Perana · 26-09-2007, 04:07 PM

Good luck to the chassis coping...

BTW you won't see it in a Falcon.. can guarantee that.

Also If the bare engine has similar dimensions to the current 5.4 Modular engine theres no way it will fit. The 5.4 only just fits as it is, add 2x Turbos to that and no hope in an OEM installation at least.

fou_bleu · 26-09-2007, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billsta

Damn the TwinForce 6.2L sounds awesome...definately an engine worthy of a HO or a newly named supercar killer from fpv......

Question is... are they gutsy enough to do it?

billsta · 26-09-2007, 05:22 PM

probably not, again that depends on what HSV do and if FPV can respond especially if there is a GTS-R announced at the Sydney Motor Show.
I think they should bring out a Super Typhoon, that would send a cold chill down HSV's backside.....

**ebxr8240** · 26-09-2007, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

Good luck to the chassis coping...

BTW you won't see it in a Falcon.. can guarantee that.

Also If the bare engine has similar dimensions to the current 5.4 Modular engine theres no way it will fit. The 5.4 only just fits as it is, add 2x Turbos to that and no hope in an OEM installation at least.

The chassis will take it !!!
It will no doubt have traction / stability control etc...
Naturally suspension and drivline will need some thought..
Thinking C.V joints...

Van D · 26-09-2007, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

The money is in sports and luxury sedans not taxis.

Since when??

V8 supercars would net Ford barely anything i'd think, I heard rumours they were thinking of pulling out though I don't believe it.

And if it's in luxury sedans, why have the LWB's been cut?

Molloy · 26-09-2007, 07:41 PM

Droolz............

metalmania · 26-09-2007, 08:03 PM

ford are soft c...s , they won't build it.

Jason[98.EL] · 26-09-2007, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by metalmania

ford are soft c...s , they won't build it.

agreed

Bent8 · 26-09-2007, 08:36 PM

881Nm is way too much torque for a performance car...look at the Brabus S Roadster (6.3L V12 TT). They had to reduce torque from 1000 to 811Nm because it was too much for the chassis and the TC couldn't handle it...apparently it's still too much.

We don't need a Twin turbo 6.2L V8 to compete with HSV...just dropping the new 6.2L into the new Falcons would be enough to easily take on the General's 6.0L LS2's.

Wikipedia says the 6.2L 'BOSS' motors will make 317kW & 576Nm (very conservative)...with a mild tune and decent headers, they should make 350kW & 600Nm no problem.

That's more than enough to take on the current VE GTS (307kW/550Nm) and probably even the 7.0L LS7's if HSV ever introduce those to an Aussie model...

RIPGMH · 26-09-2007, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

The chassis will take it !!!
It will no doubt have traction / stability control etc...
Naturally suspension and drivline will need some thought..
Thinking C.V joints...

Agreed, I think the chassis is the least of their worries.

FPV8U · 26-09-2007, 08:44 PM

With an enginbe like that they will have to build a decent drivetrain for a change, so that rules that out.

Ruger · 26-09-2007, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV8U

With an enginbe like that they will have to build a decent drivetrain for a change, so that rules that out.

agreed their last strong driveline was top loader/fmx and 9" combo. now we have zf and irs spaghetty driveline rear end

**ebxr8240** · 26-09-2007, 10:49 PM

If an E.B can ? I'm sure the new chassis will???
I'm separating suspension and driveline though...
Like I said most cars in this category are ecu torque limited...

sleekism · 27-09-2007, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van D

Since when??

V8 supercars would net Ford barely anything i'd think, I heard rumours they were thinking of pulling out though I don't believe it.

And if it's in luxury sedans, why have the LWB's been cut?

Go have a look at the options pricing for a Porsche and you will see how much profit is in luxury cars ($5000 dollar floor mats).

All fleet sales do to the Falcon is destroy resale and brand image where the Falcon is seen as a taxi. In reality a BWW doesn't cost anymore to build than a Falcon but people are willing to pay a lot more for a BMW.

Also the performance market is very lucrative.
In the past 5 years (during a fuel crisis) the number of V8's sold in Australia has doubled!

Ford dropped the LWB models because they didn't invest enough in them so were buried by Holden in sales.

Taxis give the volume.
XR's give the profit.

gtfpv · 27-09-2007, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bent8

881Nm is way too much torque for a performance car...look at the Brabus S Roadster (6.3L V12 TT). They had to reduce torque from 1000 to 811Nm because it was too much for the chassis and the TC couldn't handle it...apparently it's still too much.

We don't need a Twin turbo 6.2L V8 to compete with HSV...just dropping the new 6.2L into the new Falcons would be enough to easily take on the General's 6.0L LS2's.

Wikipedia says the 6.2L 'BOSS' motors will make 317kW & 576Nm (very conservative)...with a mild tune and decent headers, they should make 350kW & 600Nm no problem.

That's more than enough to take on the current VE GTS (307kW/550Nm) and probably even the 7.0L LS7's if HSV ever introduce those to an Aussie model...

man i am so sick of hearing this argument . most people know that the boss 290 does take on the currant 6L ls2.. they are within a poofteenth of each other.

Powdered Toast Man · 28-09-2007, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

Go have a look at the options pricing for a Porsche and you will see how much profit is in luxury cars ($5000 dollar floor mats).

All fleet sales do to the Falcon is destroy resale and brand image where the Falcon is seen as a taxi. In reality a BWW doesn't cost anymore to build than a Falcon but people are willing to pay a lot more for a BMW.

Also the performance market is very lucrative.
In the past 5 years (during a fuel crisis) the number of V8's sold in Australia has doubled!

Ford dropped the LWB models because they didn't invest enough in them so were buried by Holden in sales.

Taxis give the volume.
XR's give the profit.

You will find that Holden would have to drop the Statesman if they didnt export it. They dont sell enough LWB cars here either; but true they did sell more than Ford. Now if Ford US had actually let Oz export the Fairlane as a Crown Vic replacement.....

The luxury car argument only works if people thought of them as luxury cars. BMW and Mercedes have excellent build and quality reputaions as well as having the newest technology. Ford are considered cheap and reasonable quality and built that way, so much would have to change in thinking for Ford to be able to sell enough luxury and sports models to balance the books.

I assume you do realise that BMWs are used as taxis and are available as stripped out povity packs in europe? BMWs and Mercs are the Holdens and Fords of Germany. It's just we get well optioned models here because they are marketed as luxury cars.

Not picking on your thinking because obviously technically you are correct. But I dont think it's as easy as mearly selling up spec versions and reaping the benefits.

Van D · 28-09-2007, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

Go have a look at the options pricing for a Porsche and you will see how much profit is in luxury cars ($5000 dollar floor mats).

All fleet sales do to the Falcon is destroy resale and brand image where the Falcon is seen as a taxi. In reality a BWW doesn't cost anymore to build than a Falcon but people are willing to pay a lot more for a BMW.

Also the performance market is very lucrative.
In the past 5 years (during a fuel crisis) the number of V8's sold in Australia has doubled!

Ford dropped the LWB models because they didn't invest enough in them so were buried by Holden in sales.

Taxis give the volume.
XR's give the profit.

Yes, but Ford isn't Porsche. Porsche's are built to a much higher standard then our domestics, and Ford doesn't have the money (nor the market) to just build a luxury performance car that will sell.