Whats legal:re: ambo with flashing lights

Jack91 · 17-10-2008, 05:55 PM

Ok,

So say you're sitting at a red light on a 2 lane road and an ambulance comes up behind you with lights and sirens, do you run the red and move over to let him through? Can I get booked? If someone slams into me what happens?

Note; this has never happened to me but I think Id move forward, let him through and reverse back.

**Peuty** · 17-10-2008, 05:56 PM

Good question. I for one will do anything that is safely possible to get out of their way.

uranium_death · 17-10-2008, 06:04 PM

I would move and let the ambulance through. If I am ticketed via camera, I would hope that the ambulance is on camera.

MITCHAY · 17-10-2008, 06:12 PM

Move if it's safe to do so, otherwise they will find a way around you. That's the whole point of them having sirens and lights.

DoreSlamR · 17-10-2008, 06:12 PM

I've had to do this before. I was the only car in the right turning lane and the other two lanes going straight were full. I could see the ambo in the rear view mirror approaching and choose my lane, for obvious reasons. So I pulled forward enough to let them pass. I also believe they have the ability to turn all traffic lights red too, because no one was moving in either direction so they have a clear run through the intersection.

Jack91 · 17-10-2008, 06:23 PM

Really? They can change them red? I never knew that, because everytime Ive seen them going through an intersection its at a crawl with cars all around them.

Rodp · 17-10-2008, 06:23 PM

I've had an instance where I've crept into an intersection that was aware that an ambo was behind me to let him through against a red. Once he had gone past, I reversed back into position.

I guess you'd have to read the situation. I wouldn't have blindly moved into an intersection had it not been safe to do so. I would hope that if I had done it on an intersection with a red light camera that explaining it to the authorities would get it waived.

I have noticed on a number of occassions when an ambo is trapped with no reasonable means of getting around traffic, they'll turn off their siren. IMO, that's a smart move. As soon as traffic started moving again, on went the siren.

Rob's 76 Effy · 17-10-2008, 06:36 PM

They have no ability to change lights, thats why Ambo's, Police and Firey's slow down at intersections and never flat stick it through, my god how do they know what is coming through the lights, it would be another accident waiting to happen if they did, they will find the safest way around even crossing to the wrong side of the road if need be. Funny thing about sirens you hear them long before you see the vechile coming and most ppl reactions are to automaticly slow down, but there is always some numb nut out there that thinks they have right of way and wont move over

Walkinshaw · 17-10-2008, 06:45 PM

The only areas emerg services controll lights in Adelaide is the lights on KWS in the CBD for the CBD Metro MFS

fiery · 17-10-2008, 06:50 PM

It would make sense to move out of the way as safely as possible. Doesn't mean to floor it through the intersection with hope that the traffic coming the other way has noticed the ambulance, it means move off (or to the side at least) and keep watch of all traffic around you.
If you received a ticket from a red light camera I would think that the ambulance would also be shown (or photographed a few seconds after you) therefore the ticket would either never reach you or you could write a letter of explanation of the situation (if not attending court).

I have had to move into the path of traffic before whilst sitting at a red light and never had anyone hit me as they see you and hear sirens so most the time have had the sense to stop mid way through the intersection themselves. Then once the emergency vehicle has gone through I have either continued through that intersection or gone around the corner or just moved enough to let the 'right of way' traffic continue.

Just remember every time you see an emergency vehicle they could be heading to help one of your loved ones or friends.
How would you feel knowing that if you didn't get out of the way as quickly as possible that person may have died because the ambo's couldn't get there in enough time. Or the house burnt down with them in it because the fire crew didn't make it, etc.

DoreSlamR · 17-10-2008, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Explorer_Me

They have no ability to change lights, thats why Ambo's, Police and Firey's slow down at intersections and never flat stick it through, my god how do they know what is coming through the lights, it would be another accident waiting to happen if they did, they will find the safest way around even crossing to the wrong side of the road if need be. Funny thing about sirens you hear them long before you see the vechile coming and most ppl reactions are to automaticly slow down, but there is always some numb nut out there that thinks they have right of way and wont move over

Hmm maybe I am wrong, I forget where I got the information from but I do remember that particular instance that all the traffic was stopped at the lights as if they were red.

Speaking of ambulances, I remember one screaming past me in the Graham Farmer tunnel, scared the bejesus out of me

geckoGT · 17-10-2008, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodp

I've had an instance where I've crept into an intersection that was aware that an ambo was behind me to let him through against a red. Once he had gone past, I reversed back into position.

I guess you'd have to read the situation. I wouldn't have blindly moved into an intersection had it not been safe to do so. I would hope that if I had done it on an intersection with a red light camera that explaining it to the authorities would get it waived.

I have noticed on a number of occassions when an ambo is trapped with no reasonable means of getting around traffic, they'll turn off their siren. IMO, that's a smart move. As soon as traffic started moving again, on went the siren.

Well done! There it is folks, I don't have to answer now.

But I will because I can not help myself.

First off you will notice that at traffic lights the white line that you are meant to stop behind (your bumper not your wheels) is quite a distance away from the other traffic. This is on purpose.

This couple of metres will allow you to roll forward and to the side in absolute safety to allow an emergency vehicle through, no problem. If you have stopped too far forward and can't move safely, don't panic because we can see that and we do not want you hurt under any circumstances. For one if you do get hit, we have to stop and render assistance which does not help the person we were going to one bit. We will work out a way around you. Now on multi lane intersections, if you are in the left lane, move forward and to the left, if you are on the right move forward and to the right, we will go down the middle (don't worry we can drive these things in spaces with millimetres to spare, we won't scratch your baby). Now comes the tricky bit, if the is a line up of traffic and you are up the front, set the trend the moment you notice the emergency vehicle so everyone behind you has room to move. Once the vehicle is past, ensure there is not a second vehicle coming, its often smaller (police or ambulance sedan) before you straighten up and close the gap. Pretty simple really, just a case of knowing how and being taught. The sad thing is almost no driving instructors each this.

Do not, I repeat do not run the red light. You are not legally allowed to do this and you can cop a ticket. It is unsafe and an action that even for us with all our sirens and flashing lights that has potential risks, you do not have these warning devices and because other drivers may be distracted by our siren/lights, may not notice you in the middle of the intersection, bang!!!!!! I cringe every time I see some idiot do this.

Moving forward a couple of metres to let us though will not trigger a red light camera, you have to be a fair way into the intersection for the two photos that are required to be taken. Anyway at last one will have us in with the christmas tree going.

I hope all that makes sense, hint at lights still check your mirror every 30secs and they way you will see us with lots of warning.

When we are going through red lights we will slow right down to a crawl, don't get impatient and think you can go because we are not moving. We are making sure all traffic has stopped before we proceed, sometimes this takes a little time but it is worth the wait. I have seen an incident when someone got impatient just as the ambo's decided it was clear, end result was a collision and ambulance damaged and unable to proceed. The motorist copped a fine as they failed to give way and there was no shortage of witnesses. We go when we are satisfied it is safe, not when the motorist believes it is so please be patient and we will often give a wave and smile.

Yes we do turn the siren off (lights still going) if the traffic is locked. Leaving the siren on makes people panic and do stupid things to get out of our way. Our primary aim in any code 1 response is to get to the patient in the quickest time possible without causing damage to person or property on the way.

Another do not is do not follow the emergency vehicle through the traffic that has moved out of the way, tow truck drivers are bad for this but I have seen other motorists (including bikes) do this, not only is it illegal, it is plain dangerous. The chance of an accident is very high as often the traffic will try to straighten up without seeing there is another vehicle coming, bang!!! It actually presents a situation where I now no longer have in front and to the side to worry about, I now have to worry about behind. I always take a plate/description and pass this onto the police for them to deal with. I don't really believe anyone here would do that but it is worth pointing it out.

Thanks for listening and happy motoring, schools out!

:

geckoGT · 17-10-2008, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walkinshaw

The only areas emerg services controll lights in Adelaide is the lights on KWS in the CBD for the CBD Metro MFS

No QLD vehicles have this ability, we do in ambulance stations (when lights are just outside) but to be honest we don't use them because they take too long to activate.

London Ambulance trialled a system where vehicles were fitted with transponders that trigger green lights as the pass them but it did not work well because of cross talk between transponders and was expensive. Maybe when technology improves we may get something like this.

Rob's 76 Effy · 17-10-2008, 07:14 PM

Well in Sydney the only ppl that can change light settings is the RTA traffic monitors and mainly only in peak hour to keep the unhappy traffic flowing, other than that they are set off by sensors on the grid at traffic lights. But have never heard of the services having light changing methods

prydey · 17-10-2008, 07:27 PM

there was a story on one of those ultra reliable current affairs (aca) programs not that long ago where a driver was pinged for running a red (red light camera) for moving into the intersection to allow the vehicle through. long story short, he got his money refunded but the 3 points stood. depending on how much truth was in the story, that pretty much sums up our court/policing system.

i wouldn't ever let the threat of a fine or points stop me from trying my best to get out of the way of an emergency vehicle though. one day that could be me they are coming to help and i'd like them to get there as quick as possible.

as mentioned in another thread, it is extremely frustrating to see the lack of response to emergency vehicles by some road users, driving along oblivious to their surroundings.

one issue i find is that modern cars are much more insulated these days and if you have the windows all up and a little bit of music (quiet enough so that only the occupants of the car can hear it, not the next two suburbs), it can become quite difficult to hear a siren until it is only 50 or so metres away.

also another thing, if you do hear a siren, make sure you try to find out exactly where its coming from. it may be from a side street or cross road trying to enter your road so just because it isn't directly in your line of sight you still need to be aware.

geckoGT · 17-10-2008, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

there was a story on one of those ultra reliable current affairs (aca) programs not that long ago where a driver was pinged for running a red (red light camera) for moving into the intersection to allow the vehicle through. long story short, he got his money refunded but the 3 points stood. depending on how much truth was in the story, that pretty much sums up our court/policing system.

i wouldn't ever let the threat of a fine or points stop me from trying my best to get out of the way of an emergency vehicle though. one day that could be me they are coming to help and i'd like them to get there as quick as possible.

as mentioned in another thread, it is extremely frustrating to see the lack of response to emergency vehicles by some road users, driving along oblivious to their surroundings.

one issue i find is that modern cars are much more insulated these days and if you have the windows all up and a little bit of music (quiet enough so that only the occupants of the car can hear it, not the next two suburbs), it can become quite difficult to hear a siren until it is only 50 or so metres away.

also another thing, if you do hear a siren, make sure you try to find out exactly where its coming from. it may be from a side street or cross road trying to enter your road so just because it isn't directly in your line of sight you still need to be aware.

Mostly good points but don't run the lights it is too dangerous and can actually slow us down, keep safe!

**Peuty** · 17-10-2008, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Mostly good points but don't run the lights it is too dangerous and can actually slow us down, keep safe!

I used to work on Milton Road and almost every day I would see a paramedic going down the wrong side of the road to clear traffic. What are you guys taught regarding this? Is it done at the drivers discretion?

68XTFairmont · 17-10-2008, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walkinshaw

The only areas emerg services controll lights in Adelaide is the lights on KWS in the CBD for the CBD Metro MFS

The Elizabeth MFS also changes the lights near their station heading onto main north rd which seems to work well for them.

Also there must be some sort of system in place for mobile police units to change light sequences on most sets of lights out of adelaide. I say this because people I know were involved in a blanket run held by a "motorcycle club", They were escorted out of the CBD at the start of the run by Sapol who had changed all lights from the heart of the city to Cavan where they were left to continue their ride. There were 2 sets of lights that were not able to be controlled which were manned by motorcycle police to control the traffic.

back to Ambo's

You are required by law to move out of the way of emergency vehicles as soon as it is safe to do so, So unless you are sure it is 100% safe don't do it.

jasjul · 17-10-2008, 08:08 PM

In Victoria you can edge through a red light to get out of the way of an emergency services vehicle. Unfortunately, not all police know this, it's an obscure, but current law, so if you do get booked you have a defence.

Bobman · 17-10-2008, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Explorer_Me

Well in Sydney the only ppl that can change light settings is the RTA traffic monitors and mainly only in peak hour to keep the unhappy traffic flowing, other than that they are set off by sensors on the grid at traffic lights. But have never heard of the services having light changing methods

That's in Sydney. In great 'ol Melbourne a fair few emergency vehicles have traffic light changers called 'TOMAR'.

Not all vehicles have them, but many do. They don't change every intersection, but there are a few main ones that have the transponders installed.

IIRC The TOMAR unit sends out a signal as the emergency vehicle is approaching an intersection and changes all other lights to red, but leaves the light they're approaching to green.

More here: http://mith.com.au/wordpress/?page_id=14

Picture attached, taken by me shows a MAS AGP Sprinter with the unit circled in red and an MFB Ultra Large Pumper with the unit also circled in red.

**Jastel** · 17-10-2008, 08:29 PM

They are currently trialing a lights changing system for emergency vehicles in Queensland, in Mackay I think.
As the "smart lights" detect emergency vehicles they change to give them priority.

boss-290 · 17-10-2008, 08:30 PM

On the way home from work the other day driving down Cheltenham road, and I was following an ambulance. It wasn't in emergency mode.

I ended up over taking it, and traffic started to build up a little bit. It then started to have its sirens and light going off, so all the cars started to give it way.

It then turned down another road toward Dandenong Bypass.

I turn down the road that goes past Dandenong Bypass (near Keysborough Maccas) and met with it and it no longer had its lights flashing or siren going.

It seems that they abused their power.

Thought I'd share that with you all

Bobman · 17-10-2008, 08:42 PM

In Melbourne, whenever you see an ambulance do that, it usually means they have a 'Code 2' call, which means it's a semi-urgent job, but does not require lights and sirens at all times.

You'll see Police do this sometimes as well. I don't doubt that there have been times where it's happened just for the sake of it

aye you · 17-10-2008, 11:42 PM

you will also find that sometimes the emergency services will turn the sirens off when they are not required. i'm forever seeing ambulances coming the other way with only the lights

Conrad · 18-10-2008, 12:29 AM

if an ambulance is going through a red light wont traffic crossing that light stop for it and therefore be a clear path?

poolkeeper · 18-10-2008, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boss-290

On the way home from work the other day driving down Cheltenham road, and I was following an ambulance. It wasn't in emergency mode.

I ended up over taking it, and traffic started to build up a little bit. It then started to have its sirens and light going off, so all the cars started to give it way.

It then turned down another road toward Dandenong Bypass.

I turn down the road that goes past Dandenong Bypass (near Keysborough Maccas) and met with it and it no longer had its lights flashing or siren going.

It seems that they abused their power.

Thought I'd share that with you all

Happens all the time hey
Ive seen all 3 abuse their powers, going to the bank is on the top of the list.

But back on topic...

Buzz Box · 18-10-2008, 09:38 AM

they turn their lights and sirens off when not needed because could you imagine someone at your work desk with an airhorn non-stop it would give you the shits SOOOOOOOOO FAST!!!

Also people believe that the strobe effect of the lights or some affects the lights and thats why you see some people flash their high beams at traffic lights because they believe theirs a little lepricorn sitting in the lights waiting for a flash of bright light to change them.........

Additionally they are TRIALING the light changing system thing in QLD and if successful VIC said they would be the first to install them for the entire fleet.

And I'll repeat what someone else said above - It could be your mother/brother/sister/husband etc that they are attending to so give them right of way, don't be stupid and let them past!!!!

GS608 · 18-10-2008, 09:46 AM

on the topic of ambulances how awesome do the new QAS ambos look!

http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/...23/2371818.htm
theres a story on the transponder that changes the lights

bigev · 18-10-2008, 10:29 AM

My understanding is that you are not permitted to run the red.

I was told this by a friend who is a firey, and if get in to this situation, they are either meant to wait or find another way around (which is generally what they will do).

Penelope Pitstop · 18-10-2008, 01:13 PM

OK in the example of having an ambulance sitting up your bum at a red light there is one perfectly obvious answer/solution to the problem.

Look in your rearvision mirror (you will find it in the centre of the windscreen in most vehicles) and make eye contact with the Paramedic. Hold your hands up in a "what the hell do I do" type fashion and wait for their instruction. They will either point you left, right or tell you to hold it where you are until the lights change green.

Pretty easy and safe option in my opinon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by boss-290

On the way home from work the other day driving down Cheltenham road, and I was following an ambulance. It wasn't in emergency mode.

I ended up over taking it, and traffic started to build up a little bit. It then started to have its sirens and light going off, so all the cars started to give it way.

It then turned down another road toward Dandenong Bypass.

I turn down the road that goes past Dandenong Bypass (near Keysborough Maccas) and met with it and it no longer had its lights flashing or siren going.

It seems that they abused their power.

Thought I'd share that with you all

You honestly believe this is what happened

As if any Emergency Services personnel would risk their job - years of study and professional reputation just to advance through lights quicker or make it to the bank.

Things are not always what they seem - they are a heaps of reasons as to why this scenerio could have happened but I will let me gorgeous fiancé fill you in, in more detail.