No more phone-based GPS...

balthazarr · 21-09-2009, 03:08 PM

From http://www.theage.com.au/digital-lif...0918-fv1v.html

Quote:

Sat nav apps could be heading for a dead end
STEPHEN HUTCHEON
September 21, 2009 - 11:22AM Comments 40

TomTom's new iPhone app in use with the yet-to-be released car-kit.
Strict new road rules relating to the use of mobile phones by drivers are threatening to kill the burgeoning market in apps and services that enable smartphones to be used as satellite navigation systems.

The legal changes will affect iPhones that use apps made by TomTom, Navigon and Sygic; Nokia phones using its Ovi Maps; Telstra phones using its Whereis Navigator GPS service and any other service or software that enables a mobile phone to be used as an in-car navigation device.

Victoria will roll out the new rules, which will limit drivers' use of mobile phones and satellite navigation devices, on November 9.

A spokesperson for VicRoads, the Victorian Government's roads and traffic authority, said that under the laws - as applied in Victoria - it would be illegal for drivers to navigate using a mobile that doubles as a satellite navigation device.

"A phone will only be allowed to be used for its primary purpose," the spokeswoman said in a telephone interview. "If it's a phone, it's a phone."

The rules are part of the Australian Road Rule 8th Amendment Package, a set of road and traffic laws that were approved by all state and territory Road Ministers in February.

The iPhone voice-activated, turn-by-turn navigation apps produced by TomTom and Navigon sell for $99.99. The Sygic app costs $79.99.

All are sold through Apple's online App Store but none warn prospective buyers about the coming changes to the road rules, which could dramatically lower their utility.

TomTom's app was launched last month and is already the Australian Apple App Store's biggest grossing app.

The company plans to begin selling a bespoke car kit to cradle the TomTom-enabled phone from next month.

TomTom Australian marketing manager Chris Kearney said that the new Victorian laws would not stop the sale of the app.

"What we are seeing just reinforces our safety message around [the fact that] you must use a mounted device [the car kit] in a car and not interact with the device whilst you are driving," he said. "Essentially, it's about using the device in a correct manner."

The basic Nokia Ovi Maps service is free with the voice-guided car navigation service as part of a premium service.

Telstra's Whereis Navigator is a subscription satellite navigation service.

"Telstra is planning for the introduction of the new road rules in Victoria and we are currently in discussions with VicRoads," a Telstra spokeswoman said in an email.

"Telstra will communicate directly with its customers should these changes affect the way in which Whereis Navigator can be used."

The new laws prohibit a driver from even holding a mobile phone, cradling one on their shoulder or resting it on their laps - even if the phone is not in use.

Drivers will only be able to use mobile phones if they are placed in purpose-made cradles and operation is entirely hands-free.

Those caught breaking the new Victorian laws face a $234 fine and the loss of three demerit points.

VicRoads says research has shown that a driver is four times more likely to crash while using a mobile phone.

In Victoria, the act of driving while using a mobile ranks among the state's top three driving offences.

A spokeswoman for the NSW Roads and Traffic Authority said the RTA was "still working through practical issues" and was unable to say when the harmonised laws would come into effect in NSW.

"NSW road rules are based on the Australian Road Rules to ensure uniformity with road rules elsewhere in Australia," she said in an emailed statement.

"States and territories are not compelled to implement Australian Road Rules."

I don't see the problem using a GPS-enabled phone as a sat-nav unit if it is properly cradled.

Is this another cash grab? I didn't fork over $100 for the TomTom iPhone App, but I'd be rather annoyed (filter friendly way of putting it), if I had.

V3RSAC3 · 21-09-2009, 03:11 PM

Ive got the Nokia Navman and I use it in a cradle as a sat nav. I find it works great. .. I think the police are just on a huge money grabbing scheme of late.

Rodp · 21-09-2009, 03:30 PM

They don't really stipulate why a smartphone can't be used as a GPS, only that it's not its primary purpose... and?

The only thing I can think of is that you're more likely to interact with a mobile phone that's mounted and being used as a temporary GPS, whereas a dedicated GPS you're more likely to plug in your destination and leave it alone for the rest of the trip.

My GPS has bluetooth but it's primary purpose isn't to broadcast handsfree phone calls, am I to assume that it would also be illegal to use it for that purpose while I'm driving for that reason? (though it's moot in my case since I have a bluetooth carkit installed anyway...)

**Charliewool** · 21-09-2009, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V3RSAC3

Ive got the Nokia Navman and I use it in a cradle as a sat nav. I find it works great. .. I think the police are just on a huge money grabbing scheme of late.

It's the frigging Government NOT the poor coppers... They're the scapegoats burdened with attempting to enforce this ridiculous, poorly thought out piece of legislative garbage!!

burnz · 21-09-2009, 03:34 PM

why do i get the feeling they dont want you to be able too challenge a speeding ticket with GPS data.

irlewy86 · 21-09-2009, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by balthazarr

Is this another cash grab? I didn't fork over $100 for the TomTom iPhone App, but I'd be rather annoyed (filter friendly way of putting it), if I had.

What about an Ipod touch? Will I get in trouble if my GPS' primary function is a fashion accessory. :ymca:

platinumXR · 21-09-2009, 04:19 PM

It doesn't really matter whether it's cradled or not, if it is distracting the driver then it is dangerous and by that I mean if you are, for example: looking at the screen and programing it or entering data to it whilst you are driving then that is no different to texting or using a [the] phone ordinarily.

I suspect that may be what the Vic Gummint are trying to do. It's just another device to distract the driver from driving.

For NSW readers:

Australian Road Rules 300 Use of mobile phones by drivers (except holders of learner or provisional P1 licences)

(1) The driver of a vehicle (except an emergency vehicle or police vehicle) must not use a mobile phone that the driver is holding in his or her hand while the vehicle is moving, or is stationary but not parked, unless the driver is exempt from this rule under another law of this jurisdiction.
Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units.

(1–1) Subrule (1) does not apply to the driver of a vehicle who is the holder of a learner licence or provisional P1 licence.
Note 1. Learner licence is defined in the Act, and provisional P1 licence is defined in the Dictionary.
Note 2. Rule 300–1 places restrictions on the use of mobile phones, whether or not held in the hand, by the holder of a learner licence or provisional P1 licence.
Note 3. This subrule is an additional NSW subrule. There is no corresponding subrule in rule 300 of the Australian Road Rules.

(2) In this rule: mobile phone does not include a CB radio or any other two-way radio.

use, in relation to a mobile phone, includes the following:
(a) holding the phone to, or near, the ear (whether or not engaged in a phone call),
(b) writing, sending or reading a text message on the phone,
(c) turning the phone on or off,
(d) operating any other function of the phone.

Sorry guy's...I'm bored today... :1syellow1

:

Streets · 21-09-2009, 04:29 PM

I find using a refedex while driving much more distracting. You have to slide your fingers across the map to pinpoint the grid reference which leaves no hands on the wheel for me to steer. Next thing you know DVD players will be illegal and I'll have to go back to doing the crossword.

Gaz · 21-09-2009, 09:01 PM

so what about if you're phone is in offline mode?

what defines an object as a mobile phone? it's ability to receive calls? offline mode disables this.

Will wait to see someone use that defence first ;)

kyro_02 · 21-09-2009, 09:46 PM

won't stop people using their phones when driving/txting. or, many people (hint :P) would have been caught long time ago for using their phones. it's just to keep the whingers happy, that they think their regulations are working

.. not surprised by the government, but I'm over their strictness. the day we are forced to wear insulation and a helmet when driving, can't be too far away now!!

been pulled over with my dvd player(no longer have, got whooped) playing a movie and nothing is ever said about it, so it's safe to say the police won't be booking people for using their mobiles as gps device?

V3RSAC3 · 21-09-2009, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charliewool

It's the frigging Government NOT the poor coppers... They're the scapegoats burdened with attempting to enforce this ridiculous, poorly thought out piece of legislative garbage!!

Sheez didn't mean to offend you

388cube_edxr8 · 21-09-2009, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

why do i get the feeling they dont want you to be able too challenge a speeding ticket with GPS data.

I get it too mate. It's the Govt trying to please the whingers again too.

flappist · 21-09-2009, 11:37 PM

Phone GPSs have tiny screens and really need to be hand held to be used on most occasions. I can see why they single them out.

dom_105 · 21-09-2009, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Phone GPSs have tiny screens and really need to be hand held to be used on most occasions. I can see why they single them out.

If you have to hold the phone, then yeah, fair enough. But if they are used in a cradle, I can't see the fundamental difference between using a phone or a GPS for navigation.

Quote:

"A phone will only be allowed to be used for its primary purpose," the spokeswoman said in a telephone interview. "If it's a phone, it's a phone".

That doesn't cut it for me.

GTpilot · 22-09-2009, 01:01 AM

I would not be surprised if any portaable GPS was initially on their radar. Problem with banning them would be the HUGE backlash they would get from all segments from Manufacturers through to end users. It's too an big industry to tackle.

Don't be surprised if future models of portable GPS will not allow changes whilst in motion such as the FORD factory unit.

The silly thing about all these new laws is that I don't see it saying I cannot fumble through the centre console for a specific cd and change it whilst driving.

anyway, so long as I can still hold my BigMac with one hand and my can of coke in the other, have a ciggie hanging out of my mouth whilst steering with my knees and changing gear with my elbow, I'm happy.

POELWYK · 22-09-2009, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgb

Don't be surprised if future models of portable GPS will not allow changes whilst in motion such as the FORD factory unit.

The silly thing about all these new laws is that I don't see it saying I cannot fumble through the centre console for a specific cd and change it whilst driving.

anyway, so long as I can still hold my BigMac with one hand and my can of coke in the other, have a ciggie hanging out of my mouth whilst steering with my knees and changing gear with my elbow, I'm happy.

love it but its true though just another way of makeing money

platinumXR · 22-09-2009, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dom_105

If you have to hold the phone, then yeah, fair enough. But if they are used in a cradle, I can't see the fundamental difference between using a phone or a GPS for navigation.

That doesn't cut it for me.

Yeah, fair to say if it's cradled and not distracting you and you are not touching (therefore using) then they could not ping you for that.

Ralliart · 22-09-2009, 07:16 AM

here we go again with stupid Victoria with screwed up road rules this has the biggest bs rule that they ever introduced , blaming technology just because the are a few freaks on the road that don't know to drive, this will hurt gps programs everywhere but imo they will get round it for sure, i sometimes use my gps and the program i use garman mobile xt on my n96 clearly states when You open the program about the safety of using gps, when this rule does start im still going to use gps but im going have to change all the options in gmxt and have a cuddle installed in my car.

soon they going ban you from having music Up too loud

**Charliewool** · 22-09-2009, 07:51 AM

Lurrve a cuddle in my car

:

imugli · 22-09-2009, 01:06 PM

I want to know what they're going to say when I have my mobile in 1 cradle and my GPS in another. 2 screens instead of 1. Surely that is MORE distracting than having 1 device act as both, with the phone connected via bluetooth to my headset.

Oh, and TomTom on my mobile has a function that disables most menu items whilst moving, to STOP it being distracting...

Seriously, do any of the people who make these rules actually think about them first

What a crock!

Riksta · 22-09-2009, 01:41 PM

I honestly see no difference between punching up a destination on a phone, as opposed to punching it in on a GPS, when in essence they are pretty much the same object.

Example - I have a double-din touchscreen head unit in my car, with GPS. What's the difference between me using that, and me using my Motorola touch screen phone to use Whereis? What about the people who use a GPS in a cradle, how is that different from using their phone in a cradle as a GPS other than one can make/receive calls?

It just makes no sense to me. Kind of like it made no sense that the phone has to be in a "proper cradle" to use speakerphone on it - I USED to sit my phone in the cup holder, and run speakerphone if I was talking while driving. Now the above mentioned head unit has bluetooth so I don't need to touch the answer button on the phone, I touch the answer button on the head unit instead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralliart

soon they going ban you from having music Up too loud

I believe there is a proviso in some law somewhere that they can get you if you have your music too loud.

geckoGT · 22-09-2009, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgb

Don't be surprised if future models of portable GPS will not allow changes whilst in motion such as the FORD factory unit.

Most do have this feature but it can be turned off (mine can and is because I use it at work).

I very much doubt they will have these features permanently active as many of these units are used by emergency services. Emergency services require the unit can be used on the move, therefore any unit that can not would be out of the running.

geckoGT · 22-09-2009, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riksta

I honestly see no difference between punching up a destination on a phone, as opposed to punching it in on a GPS, when in essence they are pretty much the same object.

Example - I have a double-din touchscreen head unit in my car, with GPS. What's the difference between me using that, and me using my Motorola touch screen phone to use Whereis? What about the people who use a GPS in a cradle, how is that different from using their phone in a cradle as a GPS other than one can make/receive calls?

It just makes no sense to me. Kind of like it made no sense that the phone has to be in a "proper cradle" to use speakerphone on it - I USED to sit my phone in the cup holder, and run speakerphone if I was talking while driving. Now the above mentioned head unit has bluetooth so I don't need to touch the answer button on the phone, I touch the answer button on the head unit instead.

I believe there is a proviso in some law somewhere that they can get you if you have your music too loud.

If you were proven to have had an accident because you were not watching while inputting an address, the legislation wil only assist pick which charge they slap you with.

Say you were using a cradled mobile phone nav, this would attract the charge of using a mobile phone whilst driving.

If it was a satnav unit the charge would be something like driving without due care and attention.

Either way, you do not get out of it.

By the way, if a cop sees you driving down the road playing with any cradled electronic device, he can fine you for driving without due care and attention, or the equivalent offence in your states legislation. So really, there is no difference.

S3SR · 22-09-2009, 07:54 PM

regardless the GPS units all say that driving AND using the navigation unit at the same time is an offence and is dangerous, when they turn on .......... you have all ignored the warning and voided any dispute in the matter + when its the other guy trying to type in a street name into his iphone and looks down, doesnt see your child or yourself in the car heading towards him...

lets hope YOU ARE NOT in a chevy bel air!

geckoGT · 22-09-2009, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S3SR

regardless the GPS units all say that driving AND using the navigation unit at the same time is an offence and is dangerous, when they turn on .......... you have all ignored the warning and voided any dispute in the matter + when its the other guy trying to type in a street name into his iphone and looks down, doesnt see your child or yourself in the car heading towards him...

lets hope YOU ARE NOT in a chevy bel air!

Aimed at anyone in particular?

BionicGT · 22-09-2009, 08:24 PM

Damn Gen X and Gen Y and their gadgets

geckoGT · 22-09-2009, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S3SR

regardless the GPS units all say that driving AND using the navigation unit at the same time is an offence and is dangerous, when they turn on .......... you have all ignored the warning and voided any dispute in the matter + when its the other guy trying to type in a street name into his iphone and looks down, doesnt see your child or yourself in the car heading towards him...

lets hope YOU ARE NOT in a chevy bel air!

No answer. If it was amed at me, how many are in the front of an ambulance and often police and fire vehicles on the way to a response? That would be two, how many are needed to drive?

Stoney! · 27-09-2009, 05:03 AM

If you read it properly it actually says if the phone is not in a cradle that its an offence, cradled phones running GPS software is still ok.

Stoney!

Stoney! · 27-09-2009, 05:30 AM

If you read it properly it actually says if the phone is not in a cradle that its an offence, cradled phones running GPS software is still ok.

Stoney!

mcnews · 27-09-2009, 08:20 AM

So many drivers have their head up their backside with NFI of what is going on around them anyway so this won't make much difference.