Cutaway of new Ford twin turbo V6, Sema..

[ebxr8240]

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Spoke to the head engineer of this project.. When I said Australia is VERY interested in this engine... Said we have a good one already .. With a wry look on his face he said yes it took some beating.. But didn't go into it any further..
I asked where the limiting power or rpm was in this block while doing durability tests... He said the valve gear.. Seat secession etc..
The injector is beside the spark plug...

[Fev]

Oooo00o...

Was there any pics of a detail sheet or anything?
Did you mean he said yes to Australia getting this engine? Or something else?

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Fev

Oooo00o...

Was there any pics of a detail sheet or anything?
Did you mean he said yes to Australia getting this engine? Or something else?

I think he means, that the 4.0L was a difficult engine to beat. Kudo's again to Ford Australia on a tremendous engine.

Thanks for the shots EBXR8240!

[ebxr8240]

There is the normal specs that dealers have.. The exh manifolds leave alot to be custom made in future.. The are basically pressed steel with no pulse tuning..
Keep in mind there is very little room..
The bottom end looks the goods..
They are going to test a Mustang powered engine against am Audi 8 up Pine peaks!!!
If my memory serves me correctly ??
They have already done some comparisons beating the R8 and other cars...

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by phillyc

I think he means, that the 4.0L was a difficult engine to beat. Kudo's again to Ford Australia on a tremendous engine.

Thanks for the shots EBXR8240!

This is correct.

Even when Falcon was slated to receive the 3.7, we were never under consideration for the Ecoboost engine.

The American engineers are very jealous of what the Australian guys have achieved with the I6, especially considering the budget Ford Australia has compared to the Yanks.

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by Paxton

This is correct.

Even when Falcon was slated to receive the 3.7, we were never under consideration for the Ecoboost engine.

The American engineers are very jealous of what the Australian guys have achieved with the I6, especially considering the budget Ford Australia has compared to the Yanks.

That's right these guys give NOTHING away..
But I can tell by the wry look on his face..
These engines will pull alot harder up top ..
To take nothing away from our 4.0 camer...
BTW as per VW etc the turbo's are VERY small...

[csv8]

That would make a Mondeo fly !!!!!!

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by Paxton

This is correct.

Even when Falcon was slated to receive the 3.7, we were never under consideration for the Ecoboost engine.

The American engineers are very jealous of what the Australian guys have achieved with the I6, especially considering the budget Ford Australia has compared to the Yanks.

It would have been a bit of rush to get the ecoboost engine here on time anyway andrew.....particulary in the high output version we needed (FPV would have been buggered.....it would have never made enough for that....).

I think its important to look at this as a group effort. Certainly some healthy rivalry is great but alot of the lessons Ford Aus learned on its Turbo program no doubt made their way over to the US during the design of the ecoboost range. We also know that early DIVCT studies by Ford Powetrain were used to help Ford Aus put one of the first DIVCT setups in the ford world onto the BF I6.

The 'step above' position of the I6 (both NA and Turbo) is quite clearly understood by the Ford engineers in the US...and probably finally their corporate division too. There is nothing wrong with the ecoboost 3.5 (or duratec range in general)....unlike GM with the aloytec Ford got the engine right first time. It will only improve with further development. But it clearly is a lower output engine compared to the 4.0 (which is fair enough....it is smaller) and more suited to FWD/AWD applications. With Ford Aus taking the Ecoboost 2.0 I4 it could result in a bit of mutual backscratching.....they have big heavy vehicles that need the extra bit of torque too....

[ebxr8240]

Ummm ??? Not too many big Fords.. Except SUV's ... Mondeo size is popular or SUV.. NO big cars...

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

Ummm ??? Not too many big Fords.. Except SUV's ... Mondeo size is popular or SUV.. NO big cars...

there are lots of big 'vehicles', not necessarily big 'cars' ;)

[madmelon]

Two things I immediately dislike on seeing those pictures: It has Variable cam timing but it isn't independent- I and E go at the same time. Other one is the water pump being inside the timing case = a b@stard to fix if it ever goes wrong.

...sorry, WHEN it goes wrong.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

That's right these guys give NOTHING away..

BTW as per VW etc the turbo's are VERY small...

VW's have a bit of go in them...

[mik]

i`m still a fan of the straight 6, i would`nt be in hurry to lose a good power unit we already have.

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by madmelon

Two things I immediately dislike on seeing those pictures: It has Variable cam timing but it isn't independent- I and E go at the same time. Other one is the water pump being inside the timing case = a b@stard to fix if it ever goes wrong.

...sorry, WHEN it goes wrong.

GIve it time. Ecoboost I4 already has DIVCT and eventually ford will most likley put it on other engines. The impressive thing about the duratec is its outputs based on first generation development. When you think how many new things have been added to the I6 just since BA you get the picture. If a duratec 3.7 NA non-DI, non DIVCT, can make 370nm and 220+kw already, versus the 3.6 alloytec with DI (cadillac spec) which makes no more....think what will happen in the years to come. The somewhat 'negative' perception of the Duratec engine line up (particular in this country) is due not just to the pro-australian, anti-Yank mantra but also the sheer competitiveness of the I6 we have now. The 4.0 inline is a very undervalued engine in this country and those more impartial observers from OS that don't have a vested interest in whether it lives or dies admit as much. That doesnt mean in the future the duratec can't or won't get the job done in the cars it is fitted to, up to and including locally built models...

[Joe5619]

Dumb question from something who knows nothiong about engines.. How much benefit do they get from "Twin" turbo-ing an engine? Is is twice as good as a signle turbo? I'd love to see the I6 with twin turbo!!

[russellw]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Dumb question from something who knows nothiong about engines.. How much benefit do they get from "Twin" turbo-ing an engine? Is is twice as good as a signle turbo? I'd love to see the I6 with twin turbo!!

That's not quite as simple an answer at it might at first seem.

There are a couple of reasons for choosing twin turbo set ups and one of those is packaging on V-shaped engines - there is a lot less plumbing running two smaller turbos (one for each bank) than a single one. Additionally smaller turbos tend to spool faster and thus produce less lag.

In other implementations of TT systems there is one small and one larger turbo that allows for a strong low RPM response whilst still providing solid boost at higher RPM.

The current I6 wouldn't gain much from a TT set up - the torque it produces from exceptionally low RPM indicates that they have pretty much got the mix of turbo size, compression ratio and boost spot on for the nature of the engine.

Cheers
Russ

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by mik

i`m still a fan of the straight 6, i would`nt be in hurry to lose a good power unit we already have.

Straight six long-stroke engines are perfect for turbo applications. It is why it works so well in the current models despite what is a relatively crude set-up compared to latest technology. Even with all the latest bells and whistles the latest design short-stroke V6 will never match it off the bottom and into the lower mid-range. Up top though things will be a different story.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by madmelon

Two things I immediately dislike on seeing those pictures: It has Variable cam timing but it isn't independent- I and E go at the same time. Other one is the water pump being inside the timing case = a b@stard to fix if it ever goes wrong.

...sorry, WHEN it goes wrong.

The V6 only has VCT on the intake cam, not the exhaust, so it can never be independant VCT anyway, unless they make room for a cam phaser on the exhaust cam, and judging by the pics there may not be enough room for another cam phaser to bolt onto the end of the exhaust cam, because the intake phaser seems to take up too much room. As you can see there doesn't seem to be enough room between the rocker and timing covers for another one to be fitted, but that doesn't mean it can't be done, might need a few changes and i'm sure it will happen in the future.

[madmelon]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The V6 only has VCT on the intake cam, not the exhaust, so it can never be independant VCT anyway, unless they make room for a cam phaser on the exhaust cam, and judging by the pics there may not be enough room for another cam phaser to bolt onto the end of the exhaust cam, because the intake phaser seems to take up too much room. As you can see there doesn't seem to be enough room between the rocker and timing covers for another one to be fitted, but that doesn't mean it can't be done, might need a few changes and i'm sure it will happen in the future.

Yes that's exactly my point- only one phaser. Perhaps they think a narrower valve angle gives better gains than having DIVCT. I'm sceptical of this- I'd bet on it being more to do with cost and possibly also having a lower bonnet line in FWD cars (A La Mazda K series V6 engines with DOHC but two cams driven by belt then geared to the other two.)

[madmelon]

...but looking at those pics I'd say nothing to do with bonnet line- phasers are in the highest possible position...

[Falcman0o7]

Don't like the single chain;)

[madmelon]

I'd take 1 chain over 1 belt any day...