Learn to Drive in a Manual..... Should it be Mandatory ?

EB# · 10-02-2010, 08:33 AM

Given the events like....

- The Ford bloke stuck in cruise control
- Toyotas with sticky throttles

In incidents like those above, the option of throwing the car into neutral does
not occur at all for these people. It's my feeling that a manual driver may have
more understanding of the actual car, vehicular dynamics and thus
options for an emergency. Basically, I think manual drivers make better auto
drivers.

Just wondering what are others' thoughts are on an issue like this ?

Hypothetically, do you think it should be mandatory that learner drivers must
learn and then pass their test in a manual car ?

Jack91 · 10-02-2010, 08:37 AM

YES. If you cant drive manual, you cant drive.

03wrx · 10-02-2010, 08:51 AM

It does take more concentration from a learner to drive a manual. The initial stuffing up with letting out the clutch to early etc, and bunny hopping the car, and then gradually progressing onto smoother shifts must do something to enhance the cerebellum.

hydraulicmonkey · 10-02-2010, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAVO_XR

YES. If you cant drive manual, you cant drive.

+1

My missus who only has an auto licence has no idea what gear the car is in at any given time. For me its just second nature to keep in mind what gear the car is in. This flows on to all other aspects of driving.

aussie muscle · 10-02-2010, 09:03 AM

honestly i think the manual gearbox's days are numbered. Most people have autos nowadays and eventually manual will be an enthusiast's device only. it's mandatory to learn stick if you are into old muscle cars.

Fev · 10-02-2010, 09:39 AM

Most old Muscle cars are Auto's lol

but Manual mandatory would be good - but it's impractical. Not all families own manual cars. Mine didn't when I was learning

ROLLI · 10-02-2010, 09:48 AM

Yeah I think you should have to learn to drive manual. They just give you a manual license in VIC when you get your full license. Dont know why that is? Its not like you get any experience driving manual if you have an auto license lol I have some mates that cant drive manual and they have passed up some nice cars to buy beacause of that reason.

Powdered Toast Man · 10-02-2010, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fev

Most old Muscle cars are Auto's lol

but Manual mandatory would be good - but it's impractical. Not all families own manual cars. Mine didn't when I was learning

There wasn't a manual car in my family when I was on my Ls either. I made sure I took lessons in a manual driving school car and got my manual licence.

Funnily enough in my 13 years of driving once I got my licence I've never owned a manual and have only driven a manual car about 5 times since.

Maybe there should be mandatory emergency training (what to do in an emergency) for lerners.

kinksta · 10-02-2010, 09:52 AM

I've never driven a manual (properly). Dad always has had Fairlanes and now Caprice's. I have had 3 auto cars, but I understand how they work. I know I'm a minority, but I believe this will become more popular with auto becoming better and better. And yes aussie muscle i agree manuals will slowly be fazed out, maybe not completely.

I dive in manual mode alot though hahaha...

chevypower · 10-02-2010, 10:01 AM

yeah i used to think that, but not any more. Manuals are getting pretty rare.

SLO AU XR8 · 10-02-2010, 10:26 AM

I was told by my parent's when I was on my learners that I was getting a manual licence or nothing. It is stupid to think that just because you can't coordinate 3 pedals with two feet that you can do 6 other things at once, but adding a 7th makes it too hard.

MAD · 10-02-2010, 10:30 AM

As long as there are enthusiasts I say the manual will survive.
Just not in the base models, like it is now.

I wish ford would allow you to buy a manual in whatever you wanted. XT, G6, G6E, GT-E.

I still don't understand why they cant actually offer it. Sure not many people will buy them, but what's stopping them offering it?

pottery beige · 10-02-2010, 10:31 AM

Life would be so boring without manual's.. Dropping big fish hook's/rollback's.. Big flatty change's into second.. Manual's = FUN!!..

T3man · 10-02-2010, 10:35 AM

Yes.

However, there's a small minority of people who don't have the physical motor skills to operate a manual. In fact some can't operate a car or any other machinery at all.

And then there's the disabled.

So there is a need for flexibility ... BUT ... every person should at first be taught the basic operation of a manual even if they don't actually get their licence on one.

Franco Cozzo · 10-02-2010, 10:38 AM

All our cars are manual, but my parents got me lessons in auto to start off to learn some basic stuff, then we switched to manual and at first I hated it and didn't want to do it, then eventually when I started getting good at it, I hated auto haha. Though, I'm still trying to perfect my 1st - 2nd shift to get it smooth from WOT to change gear without making it jerk.

I reckon make everyone learn manual, and car manufacturers should only be allowed to sell auto's to people with disabilities with a free disabled kit thrown in.

Airmon · 10-02-2010, 10:55 AM

I dont think they should have to. Then you are forcing the parents to fork out for a manual car.
If they had some kind of proper driver training centre for learners specifically, with driver training then I think learning to drive a manual should be part of the course, but as it stands it would be too difficult.
When I had my Ls we only had Auto's, spent the first year of my Reds driving an Auto and when I got my greens I self taught myself to drive a manual on the Work vans and mates cars. Then the next car I bought was a manual, and its a skill I don't think I'll ever lose.
Great to have, but mandatory, not yet.

Interestingly though when my Sister was on her Ls she wanted to learn in an Auto but we only have manuals now.

jmack · 10-02-2010, 11:12 AM

while they are at it they should have to do a couple of lessons in a truck and motor bike dont no how many times i feel like kicking someones door in or shunting them straight up the back .problem is they teach people how to get there licence not how to drive

EB# · 10-02-2010, 11:25 AM

A few other points...

I agree that autos are certainly required for disabled drivers and the like.

It seems that so much money is spent on development of safety features
on cars, ad campaigns against speeding and drink driving, higher penalty
rates for driving infringements etc. What if much more money was geared
toward young driver training ? Funded by government and car companies ?
It seems there is a lot of focus on deterrants and the consequences.
What about the cause ? 120 hours of driving training with a teacher who
cant drive too well is not a good way to go.

A 5 star rating for a crash is great. How about a 5 star crash avoidance
course ?

I spoze manuals are on the way out, but surely they will always be around
for trucks, commercials, small 4's and the like ? Maybe, maybe not ?
I can see that to "force" people to learn or drive manuals may be
over the top, but I see the issue is that manuals require more skill
and better focus for the car and driving it. Perhaps there are other
ways to transfer these skills to all drivers.

For myself, I had the opportunity to learn to drive when I was about 12
on a tractor. Then I moved on to motorbikes, cars, utes etc. I believe
this was an invaluable experience. I know this is not available to many
people, but perhaps something similar could be more widely available.

As an example. A bloke in my locality provides cars and a paddock
with a hay baled track for young driver practice and training. A great
idea I thought ... !!

Lastly, for the oldies... Does anyone remember the ABC show called
"On the Road with Evan Green" ? This show, hosted by a retired
rally driver, had lots of segments about safe driving, among many other
things. I still remember certain items, from when I was a kid. How about
a new show like this ??

JamesR · 10-02-2010, 11:27 AM

i never learned to drive a manual.
my family didnt have a manual car when i was learning, and i couldnt afford to have a whole lot of lessons to learn.
since getting my full licence a few years ago, i have driven manuals a few times, just need more practice.
but these days i dont see the point in having a manual, i can still manually shift gears in my auto if i need to.

Franco Cozzo · 10-02-2010, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesR

but these days i dont see the point in having a manual, i can still manually shift gears in my auto if i need to.

Its not as fun though, something about pressing in that clutch ahd using the gear lever is just awesome.

T3man · 10-02-2010, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airmon

I dont think they should have to. Then you are forcing the parents to fork out for a manual car.

That's another issue - parents should NEVER be allowed to teach their children how to drive.

All driver training should be at a proper facility with proper accredited instructors.

Yes, it will cost a fortune. How much is a young life worth?

It is simply too easy to get a licence here - try to get a licence in Europe - costs a motza!

People need to be taught from age 15 (or even younger) in a controlled environment - not let loose on our roads to learn after passing a driving test that a trained monkey could pass.

flappist · 10-02-2010, 11:35 AM

Maybe a structured training system like aviation.

Small auto car, day time good weather.
Larger auto car, daytime good weather.
Manual transmission.
Night both city and rural.
Bad weather, low visibility both city and rural.
Red P
Skid pan, advanced driving techniques.
Green P

Of course this would cost money and take time but having been to skid pan, FPV and track days on the odd occasion I have found there are a large number of people, some of whom have been driving for more than 20 years (and think they are good drivers) who really have no idea and, I suspect, are just plain lucky to not to have had a major oops.

Or PLAN B

Driving becomes part of the school curriculum. You do all your theory and much of the ab initio training BEFORE you get taught all the wrong things by your parents/mates/whatever.

But all of this will be as popular as the alcopop tax.......

Franco Cozzo · 10-02-2010, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Or PLAN B

Driving becomes part of the school curriculum. You do all your theory and much of the ab initio training BEFORE you get taught all the wrong things by your parents/mates/whatever.

But all of this will be as popular as the alcopop tax.......

YES, this would be probably the easiest way to integrate it, maybe we could get rid of useless Indonesian or French classes (offer them for VCE instead of mandatory 7-9) and learn something most people might actually use that could be fun.

Indonesian and French wasn't fun, at all.

Adamz Ghia · 10-02-2010, 11:58 AM

If you don't know what gear your car is in at any given time auto or manual, you're not concentrating hard enough or you don't know your car well enough. That bloke with the Explorer strikes me as a liar and attentin seeker, no one has found any problem with his car as yet. And I don't know about the rest of you, but the first thing that came to my head when I heard was, 'why didn't he shift into neutural?', it's just common sense. Manuals are not long for this world. Many manufacturers don't carry a true manual in all model lines now, the latest Ferrari has paddleshifts I think, and even some new trucks and comercials being released aren't manuals, rather they are autos with manual over ride function. I will never have a need to drive a manual, my first car was a Fairmont, my second a Fairmont Ghia, my next either XR6T or G6ET with the 6sp auto, why should I have to learn manual (I can drive a manual, how well I'll leave it to others to decide... :O ) ? Knowing manual doesn't make anyone a safer driver, it's just an extra skill. More effort should be made to have kids learn in cars with no ABS, ESP or TC and teach the how to get them selves out of trouble if they ever need to. They wouldn't let you fly a plane if you couldn't save yourself, why are cars different? How many drivers die because they have no idea what to do? Being taught these skills would save your life before knowing how to drive a manual would.

Franco Cozzo · 10-02-2010, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

If you don't know what gear your car is in at any given time auto or manual, you're not concentrating hard enough or you don't know your car well enough. That bloke with the Explorer strikes me as a liar and attentin seeker, no one has found any problem with his car as yet. And I don't know about the rest of you, but the first thing that came to my head when I heard was, 'why didn't he shift into neutural?', it's just common sense. Manuals are not long for this world. Many manufacturers don't carry a true manual in all model lines now, the latest Ferrari has paddleshifts I think, and even some new trucks and comercials being released aren't manuals, rather they are autos with manual over ride function. I will never have a need to drive a manual, my first car was a Fairmont, my second a Fairmont Ghia, my next either XR6T or G6ET with the 6sp auto, why should I have to learn manual (I can drive a manual, how well I'll leave it to others to decide... :O ) ? Knowing manual doesn't make anyone a safer driver, it's just an extra skill. More effort should be made to have kids learn in cars with no ABS, ESP or TC and teach the how to get them selves out of trouble if they ever need to. They wouldn't let you fly a plane if you couldn't save yourself, why are cars different? How many drivers die because they have no idea what to do? Being taught these skills would save your life before knowing how to drive a manual would.

None of our cars had any electronic assists, except for mine, my car is the first one in the family that has ABS.

rag top · 10-02-2010, 12:08 PM

I think that anyone who wants to drive a manual vehicle must have a manual driving license. The authorities should treat it as a separate class of license which requires the license holder to be tested to upgrade their auto only license a manual license.

Won't happen though.

Adamz Ghia · 10-02-2010, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

None of our cars had any electronic assists, except for mine, my car is the first one in the family that has ABS.

My EF Fairmont had ABS, my older brother used to take me out back o' Burke and teach me how to get out of slides, correct oversteer ect. Most valuable lessons I had.

FPV+fteT3 · 10-02-2010, 12:17 PM

My 1st daughter just got her P's learned in a manual hates auto's the 16yo is now on L's in a manual. IMO if you cant drive a manual you cant really drive, funnily enough the girls especially the p plater says all she will drive is a manual her words autos even sound gay changing gears.
Being a Leco all the company cars I have had were manual vans and utes (cause there cheaper) would be up shitters ditch if you couldn't change gears.
Current company car is a 6sp manual.

zdcol71 · 10-02-2010, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T3man

That's another issue - parents should NEVER be allowed to teach their children how to drive.
All driver training should be at a proper facility with proper accredited instructors.

Yes, it will cost a fortune. How much is a young life worth?
It is simply too easy to get a licence here - try to get a licence in Europe - costs a motza!
People need to be taught from age 15 (or even younger) in a controlled environment - not let loose on our roads to learn after passing a driving test that a trained monkey could pass.

Agree to a certain extent, but firmly believe that as a parent I need to be a part of the learning process. I think it's far too easy for parents to pass their kids off to driving instructors and not know what they are actually learning (similar to a lot of parents absolving all responsibility to educate their kids "because that's what teachers are for"). Not sure of other states but in Qld, the requirement is to complete 100 hours of "learning" to get a licence. It is, tragically, very easy to see that a huge number of kids think the bulk of this 100 hours can be spent learning from mates who are only just fully licenced themselves. I have posted elsewhere about attitudes that, I believe, need to be instilled in kids before they are allowed on the roads, not least of which is an understanding that if you are not in total control of a car on the road then you are not in cotrol, full stop. To come back on topic, I think one aspect of being in total control on the road is to understand everything you can about the driving experience, and part of that must be, (for those physically capable) to understand how a car works, ie gear selection, engine braking, clutch control,hand eye etc, all the things you engage in a manual car. Too much information can never be a bad thing when it comes to putting people behind a wheel.

Rodp · 10-02-2010, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Its not as fun though, something about pressing in that clutch ahd using the gear lever is just awesome.

I guess it depends on your driving habits.

My last 3 cars were manual V8's and after spending a day in Sydney traffic, my left knee would ache. Since getting my DSG equipped car, no more achy knee. I've had the car 18 months, couldn't really say I miss the manual. Can jerk the stick around if I want to change gears manual or be an F1 driver with the flappy paddles. :P

Possibly considering an FPV at the end of this year, probably not a new one and if my choice was limited to manual, I won't be too upset about it.

About the OP. Unsure it would help. I had never driven a manual and had the throttle stick wide open once in my XW (and it had some real poke) auto in a 60 zone - instinctively threw it into neutral then shut it down. I think you're either going to act instantly or you're not, regardless of what you learned on.