Holden Police Exports Less Likely.

[Sprint XR8]

Holden here to stay, says new boss
KEVIN NAUGHTON
07 Jun, 2010 03:38 PM
Holden is here to stay – designing, building and selling cars at its Elizabeth plant, says new managing director Mike Devereux.
In his first round of interviews since arriving from Holden’s Dubai headquarters 50 days ago, the company’s fifth MD in three years believes General Motors’ well-publicised financial woes have set up the restructured company for strong growth over the next 15 years.

But last year’s plans to design and sell police cars to the US are looking less likely.

“The global financial crisis was one of the best things to happen to General Motors,” Mr Devereux said in the company’s Elizabeth boardroom.

“We are now doing things that we were not doing then; these have made the company more efficient and more effective.

“Our costs and revenues are now in line with the reality of the market. Globally, we made a profit of $850 million in the first quarter of calendar year 2010 and Australia will be profitable for the first time in many years.

“We have a good balance sheet.”

Mr Devereux said the company expected to start production of the four-cylinder Cruze at Elizabeth around March next year, with local production expected to meet the demands of Australian sales volumes around the 24,000 to 30,000 mark.

But enthusiastic claims by Federal Industry Minister Kim Carr last October about the prospects of selling the Holden Caprice to US-based police forces were hosed down by Holden management today.

Mr Carr told media last October: “They're talking about 20,000 cars immediately with the prospect of a much higher number in the future.”

Today, Mr Devereux said the next round of tenders for police vehicles in the US won’t be until late this year and there was nothing definite on the table.

“What we have done is to design a car that we believe is a better vehicle than that used by USA police forces at the moment,” he said.

“The task now is to get out there and sell it to them.”

While it’s expected Holden will re-introduce a second shift when production of the Cruze begins, Mr Devereux said he would wait and see, with “the workers here being the first ones we will tell.”

http://www.independentweekly.com.au/...s/1851440.aspx

[Luke Plaizier]

An imported Holden vs a domestic Ford Taurus AND F150.

Ouch.


Lukeyson

[Iggypoppin']

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

An imported Holden vs a domestic Ford Taurus AND F150.

Ouch.


Lukeyson

I thought ford was going to revamp the ageing crown Vic to keep it up to date with the needs of the police? I don't think a taurus, being FWD, would suit the American police force.

[Brazen]

He says its better than the police cars at the moment, not better than future Police cars such as Taurus. He doesnt sound too enthusiastic about it.

But then again, they do say they need to get out there and sell it so it sounds like its still happening. I was sure it was as good as done expecially from what I have read on US sites, but who knows I could be be wrong (again).

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Brazen

He says its better than the police cars at the moment, not better than future Police cars such as Taurus. He doesnt sound too enthusiastic about it.

EXACTLY.

[Polyal]

Hmm no mention of local balance sheet then?

[Outback]

Well lets hope for jobs for Australians that Holden get the contract.

[ltd]

It was dumb in the first place to assume they would get the contract when clearly Ford was angling to be the frontrunner for it. Further, Holden could not get 20,000 cars immediately and would probably not cope with demand. Also, politically awarding the contract to an American company with American Jobs is the kind of political end any leader wants. If they gave it to Holden the american auto workers union would be palpable to say the least.

[Outback]

When Holden do win the contract, Ford USA have got a hope in hell of winning it, at the end of the it is still going to an American company and if it is up to the government to decide who wins its really a no brainer who will, The US Government does have shares in New GM.

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by Outback

When Holden do win the contract, Ford USA have got a hope in hell of winning it, at the end of the it is still going to an American company and if it is up to the government to decide who wins its really a no brainer who will, The US Government does have shares in New GM.

I know they say don't feed the trolls, but I'm going to bite...

At the end of the day, the UAW will not tolerate Australian (or foreign workers) manufacturing their police cars.* The American motor companies have already won concessions from them in terms of pay and conditions. There is also the problem of unique cars and parts. The Commodore didn't exactly set the world on fire the last time it was sent to the USA, and it will still be relatively alien to both the Motor Pool at the Police Department, and also to any mechanics and panel beaters that have to get the thing straight again. Taurus is using a V6 that will eventually power all 6 Cylinder Fords, and should look familiar to anybody that is working on them.

Couple that with Ford's guarantee that the equipment in the Crown Victoria will be able to be directly installed into the Taurus, with no modifications. General Motors can't even promise the current equipment will fit, let alone be able to be removed from one car and placed in the new car without changing anything.

One more question for you Outback - how do you think Holden will make 20,000 cars in about six weeks? With Elizabeth's output currently at an all time low, they would struggle to make that many cars in three months. Their suppliers would never have a chance to ramp up, and their already beleaguered workers will struggle to screw the cars together quick enough. In the States, Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Honda, Subaru and Mazda all have capacity to burn. The Taurus could easily be made into CKD form, and sent down any line in America. Holden already do CKD to China, but they only Zeta factory in North America is in Canada, and currently makes the Camaro. It doesn't have enough space to cough out 20,000 cars.


Lastly, I'm going to assume you know a little about American patriotism. They will never allow an Australian car to be used for Government work. It was hard enough for government employees to get Priuses over there until Ford and GM made their own Hybrids. Unlike in Australia, the 'Buy American' mantra is still very strong, which should kill any speculation at all that Commodore will be anything but a Pontiac.

[madmelon]

It's not about who's got shares in what, it's about WHO IS WORKING to produce the cars- Americans or Australians. Are you really that sheltered that you think US institutions will simply hand Aussies jobs, especially when the UAW is so strong? Be realistic- the Americans system operates on who has the most influence, which is why so much lobbying happens over there. It's how their system works

...and the UAW is MASSIVE. Why do you think the Falcon isn't going there?

[Luke Plaizier]

I haven't seen any reference to the Crown Vic being updated and continued. Appreciate links please. I did make a mistake - it's the Ford Explorer and not the F150. What I have seen are these:

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/500...eptor-revealed
http://www.product-reviews.net/2010/...ility-vehicle/

So are these Fords above not the direct competitor to the US version of the Caprice? What did I miss here?


Lukeyson

[sd1800]

Originally Posted by Paxton

Unlike in Australia, the 'Buy American' mantra is still very strong

This is so true and so sad.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Paxton

Lastly, I'm going to assume you know a little about American patriotism. They will never allow an Australian car to be used for Government work. It was hard enough for government employees to get Priuses over there until Ford and GM made their own Hybrids. Unlike in Australia, the 'Buy American' mantra is still very strong, which should kill any speculation at all that Commodore will be anything but a Pontiac.

The Ford Crown Vic, Chevy Impala and Dodge Charger are made in Canada, police Tahoes are made in Mexico. These four are the biggest selling police cars by far and none are made in the US.

The badge on the boot is the most important identifier to whats American. An Australian built Chevy would be considered more American than an American built Toyota.

The American public and press refer to Accords and Camrys as 'imports' even though they have been built in the US for a couple of decades now. The Korean built Chevy Aveo is referred to as a 'domestic'.

[Bossxr8]

But Paul Gover said Holden will be delivering the majority of the 80,000 police cars in the US ASAP, and that it was a gauranteed success story for Holden.

Surely he wasn't talking fanboy crap.


As many people have said before, with the aussie dollar what is it and the slimmer profits on government sales this police cruiser was never going to make a cent for Holden, so I don't think anybody is suprised that it won't happen for now.

Sits and waits for Gover to come up with excuses, and how Holdens future is now safe because the program was too risky and not worth doing because Holden don't need exports to make money.

[KillaFish]

Just throwing this out there, but GMI News boards have some respectable sources saying Chevy Zeta has been greenlighted for 2012.

Could we see the police contract accepted for Holden initially, then production moved to America to coincide with new Chevrolet product?

Would put the UAW at rest, and provide Holden with a short term production boost. Unfortunately, who knows what happens after...

[Luke Plaizier]

http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1...-zeta-platform


Lukeyson

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1...-zeta-platform


Lukeyson

That is more than 12 months old & before Ford put forward their own plain..

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1...-zeta-platform


Lukeyson

Thats over a year old.

I thought all future Zeta development had been cancelled?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Iggypoppin'

I thought ford was going to revamp the ageing crown Vic to keep it up to date with the needs of the police? I don't think a taurus, being FWD, would suit the American police force.

Panther Factory at Saint Thomas Assembly Plant is closing in the later part of 2011,
Falcon will then be the only RWD sedan sold in the whole of Ford.......
Taurus Police interceptor in FWD and V6 Ecoboost AWD versions have already been announced
and a Police version of the new FWD/AWD Explorer is also planned.

Holden are hoping for "hail Mary" export orders come November.
I wonder what happens to Caprice/Statesman if the phones don't start to ring.....

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Holden are hoping for "hail Mary" export orders come November.
I wonder what happens to Caprice/Statesman if the phones don't start to ring.....

Won't happen .....

Gone .....

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Sits and waits for Gover to come up with excuses, and how Holdens future is now safe because the program was too risky and not worth doing because Holden don't need exports to make money.

haha Cruze will same them with the little to no profit.

Originally Posted by jpd80

Holden are hoping for "hail Mary" export orders come November.
I wonder what happens to Caprice/Statesman if the phones don't start to ring.....

Wasn't there a rumour that stato is gonski?

[KillaFish]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Wasn't there a rumour that stato is gonski?

VE II changes will get rid of the Statesman label, instead replaced with Caprice and Caprice V.

Same product, different branding.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by KillaFish

VE II changes will get rid of the Statesman label, instead replaced with Caprice and Caprice V.

Same product, different branding.

Oh nice the continuation of cheapening the Caprice name...like they did the SS and the Calais.

[MethodX]

The Taurus fwd better than the Caprice?
hmmmmm

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Wasn't there a rumour that stato is gonski?

I think she is now made to order like LTD/Fairlane were near the end,
not sure about Caprice....

Perhaps "Chinese Buick" Zetas offer a way out for Holden......

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I think she is now made to order like LTD/Fairlane were near the end,
not sure about Caprice....

Perhaps "Chinese Buick" Zetas offer a way out for Holden......

This is not very likely, any way John. For the simple reason that the Zetas in China are already 'assembled' there from CKD flat packs out of Australia. If the Chinese want to make a Zeta sedan, then they will be doing so from CKD. Not much help for Holden there.

Edit: Oh yes, Barraxr8, I don't know if you are hearing, but with VF/VEIII, the latest mail on Statesman is that it will be rebranded Caprice and Caprice V. Obviously the same way they have done Calais (Berlina of old) and Calais V (the real Calais).

[johnno3]

Originally Posted by Paxton

I know they say don't feed the trolls, but I'm going to bite...

At the end of the day, the UAW will not tolerate Australian (or foreign workers) manufacturing their police cars.* The American motor companies have already won concessions from them in terms of pay and conditions. There is also the problem of unique cars and parts. The Commodore didn't exactly set the world on fire the last time it was sent to the USA, and it will still be relatively alien to both the Motor Pool at the Police Department, and also to any mechanics and panel beaters that have to get the thing straight again. Taurus is using a V6 that will eventually power all 6 Cylinder Fords, and should look familiar to anybody that is working on them.

Couple that with Ford's guarantee that the equipment in the Crown Victoria will be able to be directly installed into the Taurus, with no modifications. General Motors can't even promise the current equipment will fit, let alone be able to be removed from one car and placed in the new car without changing anything.

One more question for you Outback - how do you think Holden will make 20,000 cars in about six weeks? With Elizabeth's output currently at an all time low, they would struggle to make that many cars in three months. Their suppliers would never have a chance to ramp up, and their already beleaguered workers will struggle to screw the cars together quick enough. In the States, Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Hyundai, Kia, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Honda, Subaru and Mazda all have capacity to burn. The Taurus could easily be made into CKD form, and sent down any line in America. Holden already do CKD to China, but they only Zeta factory in North America is in Canada, and currently makes the Camaro. It doesn't have enough space to cough out 20,000 cars.


Lastly, I'm going to assume you know a little about American patriotism. They will never allow an Australian car to be used for Government work. It was hard enough for government employees to get Priuses over there until Ford and GM made their own Hybrids. Unlike in Australia, the 'Buy American' mantra is still very strong, which should kill any speculation at all that Commodore will be anything but a Pontiac.

Exactly! The UAW will never allow an imported car into the country in enough numbers to satisfy demand I said this when this story first broke - I don't believe it will happen.

[jpd80]

It's not a question of UAW not allowing the sales, it's much simpler than that.
See at the moment, a Crown Victoria delivered by Ford ready to accept Police
Equipment add ons sells ex-dealers for about US $25,000 and a lot of police
departments re use their old Crown Victoria equipment in the new vehicles.
Taurus PI will be sold at two prices above and below the Crown Victoria PI
and have already secured supplier contracts with US police equipment suppliers
so that everything can be sourced and serviced locally over there.

Caprice PPV while a wonderful development asks the Americans to trust that a vehicle built outside North America will function acceptably and that all foreign police equipment and electricals will provide trouble free service. Unless Holden supplies its PPV for around US$25,000 plus all police equipment, they will struggle.

Oh, there is no major police order pending, it's all individual police departments over there,
so negotiating in dribs and drabs as of November...

Sorry to sound like a negative nellie but Caprice PPV will get slome contracts no doubt
but I think the bulk of the supply will stay with North America's Ford, GM and Chrysler...

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

But Paul Gover said Holden will be delivering the majority of the 80,000 police cars in the US ASAP, and that it was a gauranteed success story for Holden.

Surely he wasn't talking fanboy crap.


As many people have said before, with the aussie dollar what is it and the slimmer profits on government sales this police cruiser was never going to make a cent for Holden, so I don't think anybody is suprised that it won't happen for now.

Sits and waits for Gover to come up with excuses, and how Holdens future is now safe because the program was too risky and not worth doing because Holden don't need exports to make money.

Are you mistaking him for a journo? The whole PPV Stato thing was just another Holden advert.