Towing vehicle questions

RspecAU · 03-09-2010, 08:02 PM

I'm looking at buying an AU SII or SIII V8 ute mainly for towing and daily use.
Which is better the cab chassis or the utility for towing, what price range would i be looking at and would it be worth getting a dual fuel one?
Yes Poelwyk I did say GAS

Cheers Mark

Mr Hardware · 03-09-2010, 08:05 PM

I assume you are asking whether it makes a difference whether it's styleside or trayback

and no, i don't think so. Dual fuel? Yes, if you like to save money.

RspecAU · 03-09-2010, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

I assume you are asking whether it makes a difference whether it's styleside or trayback

and no, i don't think so. Dual fuel? Yes, if you like to save money.

there the words i was looking for. Not to worried about saving on fuel cost just weather or not the loss of power on gas while towing but i must also add that i am not a fan of dual fuel as there are always issues with tunning or is that a thing of the past now days?

Mr Hardware · 03-09-2010, 08:49 PM

tuning? is this still carbyland? no.
Yes you will lose power on gas. But you'll gain down low torque, which is way more handy for towing.

T3man · 03-09-2010, 09:36 PM

There is definitely one consideration you need to have regarding choice of tray or ute back. You will find that the trays will extend further rearward from the axle line. The result is that sometimes extended tow hitches are used meaning longer overhang to your tow ball. This will be important to you only if you are planning on towing very heavy loads. If you don't intend towing anything more than 1600kg it won't concern you.

If the standard tow hitch is used you won't have the problem BUT then have the inconvenience of having to reach in under your tray to hitch up - expect some bumps on the head.

As for LPG or dual fuel ... you will not notice any difference in power with LPG if the installation is good. You will however notice an increase in torque at lower revs which is exactly what you require for towing. When towing on gas you will not get the same benefits in economy but it will still work out cheaper per km. Try to get a manual because when towing on gas they are much more fuel efficient.

I'd imagine you'd get a V8 dual fuel ute for around $10k to $12k. You'll definitely pay more than a sedan.

RspecAU · 04-09-2010, 02:21 AM

I'll be towing about 1800KG plus the trailer which i'll have to find a good light but sturdy on of those to.
Thanks for that guys now to start the long process of finding a nice one.

RspecAU · 04-09-2010, 02:29 AM

Pitty this one dosn't have 8 cylinders under the bonnet
http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/...d=12AD8E3B52F6

T3man · 04-09-2010, 08:12 AM

Tell him to keep the plates and rims - offer him $10k. Look out for a 220kW Windsor and you're set. The LPG conversion will cost you about $2500 after rebate. You can claim the engine transplant and LPG conversion off your tax as I assume the ute is going to be used for business.

**Mechan1k** · 05-09-2010, 01:39 AM

The problem with manual and towing ... is the limit is about 1200kg braked.

So you will need to get an auto if you wish to stay legal with larger loads.

Also XR8 utes were only the 200kw variants ... no 220's. But then there's mods anyway to bring power/torque up as it is.

RspecAU · 05-09-2010, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

The problem with manual and towing ... is the limit is about 1200kg braked.

So you will need to get an auto if you wish to stay legal with larger loads.

Also XR8 utes were only the 200kw variants ... no 220's. But then there's mods anyway to bring power/torque up as it is.

Manuals are hard to find at the best of times, I was looking at auto but i do love mauals

**Mechan1k** · 05-09-2010, 02:24 AM

Definitely ... manuals are more fun to drive ... but if you are going to be towing decent loads a fair bit ... the auto is the better option anyway. And if you can stretch it ... get the auto rebuilt/strengthened ... it makes it even better to drive as well.

Sox · 05-09-2010, 07:33 AM

As someone else mentioned, the styleside is easier for hitching up and has a nice short ball mount.
Some of the tray backs have very long ball mounts and as a consequence add leverage to the ball weight of the trailer. This makes the rear of the tug sag more, and increases pitching and diving.
It's a pain in the bum to hitch/unhitch too.

I don't like gas at all, but plenty people do, you'll need to make up your own mind with that one.

Manuals are a vastly better thing for towing than autos IME. Particularly if you fiddle with diff ratios and a better clutch.
Autos never seem to be in the right gear, either revving to high in a low gear, or too low with not enough power in a high gear.
They also shuffle between gears far too much.
Fuel economy is significantly better with a manual.
Autos also need fiddling to make them more suitable for towing (big trans cooler, diff ratio).

The only thing to consider is the grey area of legal tow weights between the two.
Ford allow 2300kg with an auto, but only 1600kg with a manual.
Yet OZ ADR's allow 2.5 times the tow vehicles weight.
You make the decision.

BTW, for that kind of trailer weight, you should use a WDH (weight distribution hitch). WDH's distribute part of the weight which has now lowered the rear of the car, to the front. It uses leverage, kind of like a seesaw to do this.
Marvelous devices, and makes air bags, which don't achieve the correct results anyway, redundant.
They come in various sizes to suit different towed loads. Talk to a good trailer mob or call Hayman Reese.

mik · 06-09-2010, 09:27 AM

i`m a bit of an auto fan myself for towing, even in trucks these days ,auto`s rock.

T3man · 06-09-2010, 12:49 PM

The auto vs manual debate will live forever. I have used both over many years and covered hundreds of thousands km of heavy towing. Invariably when using an auto I have had to do substantial modifications to the vehicle to get it "right" for the job. I've never had to alter a manual. Generally when the debate arises and I have a chance to see how the debatees actually drive - well, the auto drivers are generally the worst drivers. In a manual car I mean - they will display every bad habit there is - slip the clutch, ride the clutch, not be in the right gear, not downshift, I could go on and on.

IF A PERSON CAN DRIVE, AND DRIVE PROPERLY, THEN A MANUAL IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE THE BETTER TOW VEHICLE.

But for people who have NFI how to drive then thank DOG for autos because at least it simplifies the task for them and allows their limited ability to be concentrated on other driving related tasks.

When it comes to what is the legal weight - it is the legal weight set by the authorities not the manufacturer. The manufacturer's recommended maximum weight is done for warranty purposes not for road legalities.

Mr Hardware · 06-09-2010, 12:52 PM

gee, ease up a bit turbo

Sox · 06-09-2010, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sox

Yet OZ ADR's allow 2.5 times the tow vehicles weight.

Typo, that should say 1.5 times..........

Sox · 06-09-2010, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T3man

The auto vs manual debate will live forever. I have used both over many years and covered hundreds of thousands km of heavy towing. Invariably when using an auto I have had to do substantial modifications to the vehicle to get it "right" for the job. I've never had to alter a manual. Generally when the debate arises and I have a chance to see how the debatees actually drive - well, the auto drivers are generally the worst drivers. In a manual car I mean - they will display every bad habit there is - slip the clutch, ride the clutch, not be in the right gear, not downshift, I could go on and on.

IF A PERSON CAN DRIVE, AND DRIVE PROPERLY, THEN A MANUAL IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE THE BETTER TOW VEHICLE.

But for people who have NFI how to drive then thank DOG for autos because at least it simplifies the task for them and allows their limited ability to be concentrated on other driving related tasks.

What he said.

Quote:

When it comes to what is the legal weight - it is the legal weight set by the authorities not the manufacturer. The manufacturer's recommended maximum weight is done for warranty purposes not for road legalities.

Actually you'll find the legal requirement is as follows (taken from the RTA website).

The loaded mass of the trailer must not exceed the lesser of:
Rated capacity of the towbar and tow coupling.
Maximum towing capacity of the vehicle.
Maximum carrying capacity of the trailer .
Maximum rated carrying capacity of the tyres.

The lesser being a manual Falcon in this case.

Although we both seem to agree in that it's for warranty purposes only, and that it is a pretty idiotic recommendation from Ford.

mik · 06-09-2010, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T3man

The auto vs manual debate will live forever. I have used both over many years and covered hundreds of thousands km of heavy towing. Invariably when using an auto I have had to do substantial modifications to the vehicle to get it "right" for the job. I've never had to alter a manual. Generally when the debate arises and I have a chance to see how the debatees actually drive - well, the auto drivers are generally the worst drivers. In a manual car I mean - they will display every bad habit there is - slip the clutch, ride the clutch, not be in the right gear, not downshift, I could go on and on.

IF A PERSON CAN DRIVE, AND DRIVE PROPERLY, THEN A MANUAL IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE THE BETTER TOW VEHICLE.

But for people who have NFI how to drive then thank DOG for autos because at least it simplifies the task for them and allows their limited ability to be concentrated on other driving related tasks.

When it comes to what is the legal weight - it is the legal weight set by the authorities not the manufacturer. The manufacturer's recommended maximum weight is done for warranty purposes not for road legalities.

i`ve never had a problem with either, and i don`t see a problem with auto`s as long as they are well serviced and treated with a bit of respect, as far as driving with an auto it just takes a bit of common sense its not rocket science.

RspecAU · 06-09-2010, 05:09 PM

So in short to tow an 1800kg car plus a trailer I'm going to need an auto that needs a crap load of mods with a heavy duty tow bar

T3man · 06-09-2010, 05:44 PM

It's not as bad as it sounds. The auto will serve you well enough if you do just a couple of simple things. One, it is pretty imperitive to fit a second transmission oil cooler. When towing always have your auto in ECON mode. These are the basics to get long life out of your auto.

The other thing you may choose to do is fit 3.7 diff gears. Now if your car already has 3.45s then don't bother as it isn't worth the expense. But any gears higher than 3.45 are just going to make your auto work harder and it will always be hunting for the perfect gear (which it will actually never find because it simply ain't there).

With 3.45 or 3.7 diff gears you will get far better economy while towing and the difference (extra fuel you may use) when you aren't towing is negligible anyhow.

Hope this helps.

Sox - you are right about the towing capacity being limited by the manufacturer's rating - it's stoopid isn't it? Years ago it wasn't like that! That's my trouble - I can remember too far back! LOL.

mik · 08-09-2010, 01:48 PM

one thing about towing heavy especially if your pulling something like a non aero dynamic caravan over long distance, tall gearing in overdrive makes the engine labour and use a lot more fuel i found, even in my documentation that came with my xr6 its recomended to tow in direct(3rd gear), and it will almost eliminate hunting for a cog, and T3mans comment on the diff ratio i concur with also, while towing tandem +car with my old 2+ton f100 ambulance with a 4.11 diff it would still pull away from the lights with ease and maintain road speed very well considering its weight, it liked a drink of gas though

, i was considering putting a bigger gas tank in or adding another .
if your towing a good size gas tank might be another consideration.