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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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27-11-2010, 10:14 AM | #1 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
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DSG, Direct Shift Gearbox (Direkt Schalt Getriebe) seems to be the next big thing in transmission technology.
It is described as a manual transmission but does not have a clutch pedal. So can you legally drive one with an auto license? In QLD when the BA first came out there was a somewhat celebrated case where driver with an auto only license was charged with unlicensed driving because his auto XR6 had a "manual mode". The magistrate threw it out fortunately and a short time afterwards a clarification was released by QPOL that "manual" means "has clutch pedal". But this only applies to QLD as each state has its own rules. So outside QLD is DSG auto or manual for the purpose of licensing? |
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27-11-2010, 10:22 AM | #2 | ||
Flairs - Truckers Delight
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Location: Brisbane Northside Likes: Opposite Lock
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The difference in my mind between if a car is a manual or auto is the clutch pedal.
In light commercials the automated manual is most definitely classed as an auto, i don't see how a DSG should be any different.
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27-11-2010, 10:28 AM | #3 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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A compulsory part of a manual License test is proving a driver can properly operate a manual clutch.
In the USA, Ford is using the Powershift DSG gearbox in Fiesta to replace the auto transmission. Last edited by jpd80; 27-11-2010 at 10:34 AM. |
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27-11-2010, 10:30 AM | #4 | ||
Barra Turbo > V8
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 26,176
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No clutch = Automatic
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27-11-2010, 10:32 AM | #5 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Quote:
The Police officer should have been suspended for wasting tax payer money on such a frivolous and pathetic attempted charge. |
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27-11-2010, 10:35 AM | #6 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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27-11-2010, 10:37 AM | #7 | |||
BOSS 5.4L Enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 21,943
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Quote:
Donut King must have been out of his/her favorite that day, what a stupid charge. DSG is Auto in Vic im 99.999% sure. |
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27-11-2010, 10:54 AM | #8 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 175
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Does the transmission change ratio's on its own? If so it is automatic. If it needs to be changed by the driver then it is manual. Clutch pedal becomes irrelevant in my opinion.
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27-11-2010, 11:01 AM | #9 | ||
Performance moderator
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Location: St Clair..N.S.W
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Hmm ?? It's a worry !!!
An auto in manual mode is still an auto trans.. Check compliance or VIN plate... Its not like you can put a manual in auto mode....
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27-11-2010, 11:10 AM | #10 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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27-11-2010, 11:37 AM | #11 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Quote:
Quote:
By Veefore's logic only a car that has no ability to change gears by itself at all would be considered a manual. |
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27-11-2010, 11:46 AM | #12 | ||
Banned
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It is the clutch pedal that determines whether the car is manual or automatic, not the type of gearbox nor the operating modes of the gearbox. There is no court in the land that would ever find otherwise.
DSG manual gearbox does not alter the fact that the car for all intents and purposes is an "automatic" for licensing purposes. |
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27-11-2010, 01:50 PM | #13 | ||
Thailand Specials
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If the car has a clutch pedal = manual.
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27-11-2010, 02:26 PM | #14 | |||
FG GT 5.4 w/ additions!
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Quote:
Clutch pedal or not, in my mind manual means "do it yourself" so if something like a ZF would be an automatic, but with a "manual" gear shift mode but Auto clutch.... Thus Semi-Auto. lol, or Semi-manual if you like. I'd think DSG would be the same. As for laws and licensing, well we all know thats anyones guess depending on what day of the week it is. EDIT: BTW Flappist, wheres the poll?? |
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27-11-2010, 02:49 PM | #15 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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simple as
the gearbox is manual but the car is automatic the person has a car license so as long as the CAR is auto then no problem there really shouldn't even be a discussion if the vehical can change the gears by itself and if the operator DOSEN'T need to push on a clutch or select neutral to stop (to prevent the engine from stalling) then the car is auto even in a manual mode an auto gear box will not stall when u come to a stop |
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27-11-2010, 03:41 PM | #16 | ||
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Id say the laws would need to be changed as its not keeping up with technology.
An auto transmission as we know it runs a torque convertor. A manual runs a clutch or series of clutches. The DSG runs 2 clutch packs which are computer controlled, thus it gets rid of the clutch pedal. (it has no torque convertor) It can be used in manual select mode or in auto mode. In reality you can also change gears in a manual without the use of the clutch, a somewhat lost art to some. As was stated it comes down to the compliance plate on the car as to weather the manufacturer considers it an auto or manual.
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27-11-2010, 03:48 PM | #17 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Quote:
besides a clutch is still needed to stopped the car with the engine running |
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27-11-2010, 04:07 PM | #18 | ||
Watts a panhard.
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I call it a semi-manual to annoy the auto fanboys. But I would generally class it either on its own, or as an automatic gearbox.
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27-11-2010, 04:24 PM | #19 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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27-11-2010, 04:58 PM | #20 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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27-11-2010, 05:22 PM | #21 | ||
love the quad cams
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pre DSG, every auto had
D 3 2 1 so anyone could hold in gear & change like a mnanual if they wanted |
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27-11-2010, 05:42 PM | #22 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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As has been said, the lack of a driver operated clutch denotes an automatic transmission. However, I can understand how the line becomes blurred when it comes to so called "clutchless manuals" such as a Fiat van I recently drove....
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27-11-2010, 05:42 PM | #23 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Quote:
the engine is connected to the gearbox by either a wet or dry centrifugal clutch. Fiesta has dry clutch Powershift, Diesel Focus has wet clutch Powershift. Pretty sure a powershift box can be put in D and driven like an auto box. Last edited by jpd80; 27-11-2010 at 05:50 PM. |
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27-11-2010, 06:33 PM | #24 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Quote:
Yes but the manufacturer of the box calls its a manual....
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You've seen it, you've heard it and your still asking questions?? Don't write off the Goose until you see the box going into the hole.... |
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27-11-2010, 11:12 PM | #25 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Quote:
I was actually asking what was the law in other states and territories rather than what peoples personal opinions of what the law should be. e.g. QLD person with auto licence drives DSG interstate, either QLD registered or other state registered. Is this legal? This question is in a similar vein to P plater from V8 legal state driving V8 in non legal state. |
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27-11-2010, 11:42 PM | #26 | ||
No longer a Uni student..
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Coffs Harbour, NSW
Posts: 2,557
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And on those lines, since once you are off your Red P's in NSW there is no such thing as an 'auto' or 'manual' license.
If you have a Qld 'auto' license, can you drive a manual in NSW? |
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27-11-2010, 11:51 PM | #27 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Quote:
@Jim Goose if you are talking about the DSG gearbox correct the gearbox is considered manual the car itself is auto therefor no restriction should be placed |
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27-11-2010, 11:57 PM | #28 | ||
rocknrolla
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Location: Adelaide, SA
Posts: 1,589
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in south australia you just get a license, none of this auto or manual crap.
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28-11-2010, 12:04 AM | #29 | |||
let it burn
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Quote:
If it cant be automatically shifted, it is technically a manual box, a clutchless manual. Legally, I think its going to a tricky area. I think it will come down to something along the lines of being able to come to a stop without using a clutch. Last edited by fmc351; 28-11-2010 at 12:13 AM. |
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28-11-2010, 01:38 AM | #30 | ||
Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,940
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I thought it was obvious? Auto= the gearbox changes the gears for you, automatically- ie, no clutch, just push down the right pedal and the car goes. I always saw the purpose of auto/manual licencing as stopping new drivers who have never, or rarely driven a manual car from going out there and stalling everywhere, or rolling back into people etc etc- there's a lot more happening in a manual car.
Also the thought that selecting gears with a tiptronic shifter is even remotely like driving a manual car is nonsense. Unless you have driven a Toyota MR2, now that gearbox is retarded. |
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