Falcon's rival reveals styling cues...

Buntz · 21-03-2011, 08:59 PM

... But has it dropped the ball?

Quote:

HOLDEN has taken the unusual step of flagging minor styling details on the next-generation Commodore, which may be up to three years away.

Speaking to the media at the launch of the vital new JH Cruze in Melbourne last week, Holden design director Tony Stolfo emphasised improved aerodynamic efficiency as one of the ways the next Commodore will use less fuel.

The car in question is the so-called ‘VF’ model – a model designation that is yet to be confirmed – which is expected to be released in 2013 or 2014.

The veteran company designer pointed to the newly ridged-off extremities of the latest Cruze’s rear bumper during the JH presentation, saying that we “can expect the same” on future versions of the Commodore.

Later, Mr Stolfo suggested that the upcoming Chevrolet Volt range-extender electric vehicle (due in Australia in the latter half of next year) and its European Opel Ampera twin also feature styling elements proposed for the future Commodore.

In particular, he said that the Volt’s side surfacing may indicate the direction the big rear-drive Holden is heading.

As Holden continues to seek ways of reducing fuel consumption, Mr Stolfo said it would continue to reduce weight across the range and improve airflow both underneath and over the body.

However, while looking to increase the use of lighter steels, he said materials like aluminium – let alone carbon-fibre – are not on the agenda for now due to the sheer cost for a relatively inexpensive volume-selling vehicle.

“We’re exploring other avenues … like better aerodynamics,” Mr Stolfo said.

The big question now is just how changed the ‘VF’ will be over the VE, which was launched in September 2006.

Holden may do what Ford Australia did with the BA Falcon in 2002 – when it reskinned and comprehensively reengineered the unsuccessful AU – and alter all exterior sheetmetal to create a sleeker and more modern appearance while retaining the existing hard points such as the pillars, roof and doors.

The VE has remained largely unchanged in appearance due to a host of factors, including Holden’s attempt to amortise the huge investment in an all-new vehicle in a shrinking large-car market and the economic crisis for parent company General Motors.

Minor plastic trim aside, the VE sheetmetal is likely to become the least-changed Holden large car in the company’s 63-year history.

In August, the VE Commodore will eclipse the original Holden ‘FX’ 48-215 model’s 59-month run (November 1948 to October 1953).

First our devoted enemy goes and makes their car look almost identical to the B series Falcon, but with fat wheel arches. Now they're gonna take cues from the Cruze, and Volt?

Way to make the Falcon stand out Holden... good stuff.

Thoughts?

jpd80 · 21-03-2011, 09:17 PM

Maybe Ford and Holden are taking completely different directions with their next generation large cars.....

Buntz · 22-03-2011, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Maybe Ford and Holden are taking completely different directions with their next generation large cars.....

Yeah but who in their right mind would take style from the side of a Volt?

My Eyes!

NAFairlane · 22-03-2011, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Yeah but who in their right mind would take style from the side of a Volt?

My Eyes!

That looks more like something from a japanese car maker than a chev. Reminds me of a Honda......I actually quite like it.

Hally · 22-03-2011, 07:20 AM

I am interested in how you think a BA and VE look identical except for fat wheel arches.....

T3ts50 · 22-03-2011, 07:48 AM

That Volt does look quite nice, and agree with NAfairlane, it does look like something Honda would build.

Wretched · 22-03-2011, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Yeah but who in their right mind would take style from the side of a Volt?

My Eyes!

It is one of the better looking Chevs. Honestly don't see a problem with it.
Obviously they're not going to replicate the look just use some design from it.
Just like Ford has done.

As for VE looking like BA, may be the headlight cluster but that's it. To say VE looks like BA is really stretching it. VE design would have been locked it in before they saw BA.

Nikked · 22-03-2011, 08:05 AM

The VE calais looks like a carbon copy of a Fairmont from the front, grill, bar, lights.

**Dave R** · 22-03-2011, 08:10 AM

Let's not be silly, the next generation Commodore will not look like a Volt. He said "surfacing" in particular. I take that to mean no more wild wheel arches, more of a smooth profile and less boxy. It's pointless to even think about it when the car is so many years away.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

First our devoted enemy goes and makes their car look almost identical to the B series Falcon, but with fat wheel arches.

You say "our", as if to say that this forum is full of one-eyed Holden-hating weirdos. The VE Commodore is identical to B series Falcons in that it has 4 wheels, 4 doors and a boot.

almostsane · 22-03-2011, 08:47 AM

back up your claims with comparitive photos of the B series and VE commo, highlight how they look the same and I might be inclinded to take you seriously...but until then...

flappist · 22-03-2011, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Yeah but who in their right mind would take style from the side of a Volt?

My Eyes!

Maybe they think it has potential?

Watt were they thinking when they amped up the current design........

**Polyal** · 22-03-2011, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Maybe they think it has potential?

Watt were they thinking when they amped up the current design........

Thats just shocking, there is bound to be public resistance.

Nah its not that bad..and I am sure the next commy, just the a proposed falcon, will fall into a corporate theme.

EFFalcon · 22-03-2011, 09:06 AM

given a VE omega looks like crap.. yet it still sells, i don't think they've got *that* much to worry about.

aussie muscle · 22-03-2011, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Yeah but who in their right mind would take style from the side of a Volt?

While they say 'take styling cues' from volt, what they really mean is they are taking parts, eg headlights from volt and have to somehow incorporate that into the overall design.

holden have copied designs from opel and vauxhall and chevrolet for the better part of six decades, so i don't see that changing anytime soon.

Bossxr8 · 22-03-2011, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretched

It is one of the better looking Chevs. Honestly don't see a problem with it.
Obviously they're not going to replicate the look just use some design from it.
Just like Ford has done.

As for VE looking like BA, may be the headlight cluster but that's it. To say VE looks like BA is really stretching it. VE design would have been locked it in before they saw BA.

BA was revealed what, mid 2002, and VE went on sale 2006. They would not have had the design of VE locked in by then, they still would have had significant work to do in its design.

The basics would have been set in place by then possibly, but definately not a final design.

But anyway bar headlight and upper grille shapes there's not much in common.

Dr Smith · 22-03-2011, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

BA was revealed what, mid 2002, and VE went on sale 2006. They would not have had the design of VE locked in by then, they still would have had significant work to do in its design.

The basics would have been set in place by then possibly, but definately not a final design.

But anyway bar headlight and upper grille shapes there's not much in common.

Actually I thought VE had a very long design process closer to 7 years and saw some photo's of sketches that were dated before 2000. Might explain why the dash looked so "familiar" to me compared to say the release of the BA which stood out as a big style jump.

barra265t · 22-03-2011, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hally

I am interested in how you think a BA and VE look identical except for fat wheel arches.....

VE copied the Ford Territory's headlight shape and big front wheel arches

stevz · 22-03-2011, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

You say "our", as if to say that this forum is full of one-eyed Holden-hating weirdos.

Well you can't deny that it certainly seems that way sometimes.

Dr Smith · 22-03-2011, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Maybe they think it has potential?

Watt were they thinking when they amped up the current design........

maybe by decreasing the resistance of buyers to the potential shock when they find it isn't a plug in only ...would it go faster if it was 3-phase?

Buntz · 22-03-2011, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

BA was revealed what, mid 2002, and VE went on sale 2006. They would not have had the design of VE locked in by then, they still would have had significant work to do in its design.

The basics would have been set in place by then possibly, but definately not a final design.

But anyway bar headlight and upper grille shapes there's not much in common.

There also the shape of the cabin, and the line the windows take and curve at the c pillar. They made it look very, very similar to the Falcon.

stevz · 22-03-2011, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

There also the shape of the cabin, and the line the windows take and curve at the c pillar. They made it look very, very similar to the Falcon.

I think you need to visit a good optometrist

chevypower · 22-03-2011, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

There also the shape of the cabin, and the line the windows take and curve at the c pillar. They made it look very, very similar to the Falcon.

It's called the Hoffmeister Kink. Invented long before the Falcadore.
http://www.bmwblog.com/2009/04/07/wh...fmeister-kink/

2011G6E · 22-03-2011, 06:01 PM

They know what the "next car" is going to look like a looooong time before it comes on the market.
I've seen photos in magazines of clay models...accurate clay models...of upcoming cars dated many years in advance. A little internet hunting would probably turn them up.

It's amazing that some care maker hasn't...until now apparently...said to themselves "Look guys...we know pretty much what the model five years from now will look like. Why don't we drum up some interest and show people some of the styling features like a teaser of what is coming next instead of keeping it all secret like we always have?"

LeadFoot81 · 22-03-2011, 06:03 PM

Car makers the world round release concept cars hinting at styling cues years in advance.

2011G6E · 22-03-2011, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeadFoot81

Car makers the world round release concept cars hinting at styling cues years in advance.

They do nowadays at least...remember some years back Jeremy Clarksons comment on Top Gear about the wildly-styled mid-2000's Vauxhall Astra two door that he would "eat his hair if it looked anything like it", and it turned out it did (I believe he had a hair omelette...

).

It used to be standard practice for "concept cars" to be so way-out that we simply knew deep down that no one would ever build anything like it...but nowadays you can't be too sure. Look at the new Honda Civic (R-Type shape) over the last few years...that thing was shown as a concept car back around 2005 and everyone laughed..."sure, it'll look exactly like that...*snicker*...". But it did...almost exactly.

Sometimes concept cars are obviously anime-styled fantasies...but then again you can't be too sure given manufacturers recent track record...

Bossxr8 · 22-03-2011, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevypower

It's called the Hoffmeister Kink. Invented long before the Falcadore.
http://www.bmwblog.com/2009/04/07/wh...fmeister-kink/

If BMW could have trademarked the kink Holden would have been in court. Stolen directly from BMW.

jpd80 · 22-03-2011, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

If BMW could have trademarked the kink Holden would have been in court. Stolen directly from BMW.

Except that it was used by Kaiser in 1951

MethodX · 22-03-2011, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Except that it was used by Kaiser in 1951

Ah Kaiser Manhatten, lovely classics.
the 53 model was supercharged too.

Buntz · 23-03-2011, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevypower

It's called the Hoffmeister Kink. Invented long before the Falcadore.
http://www.bmwblog.com/2009/04/07/wh...fmeister-kink/

Well whataya know! Falcon was the first of the two though. And I hate the term Falcadore... especially when Falcon is much better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevz

I think you need to visit a good optometrist

If you can't see it I'd advise the same.

LeadFoot81 · 23-03-2011, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

They do nowadays at least...remember some years back Jeremy Clarksons comment on Top Gear about the wildly-styled mid-2000's Vauxhall Astra two door that he would "eat his hair if it looked anything like it", and it turned out it did (I believe he had a hair omelette...

).

It used to be standard practice for "concept cars" to be so way-out that we simply knew deep down that no one would ever build anything like it...but nowadays you can't be too sure. Look at the new Honda Civic (R-Type shape) over the last few years...that thing was shown as a concept car back around 2005 and everyone laughed..."sure, it'll look exactly like that...*snicker*...". But it did...almost exactly.

Sometimes concept cars are obviously anime-styled fantasies...but then again you can't be too sure given manufacturers recent track record...

That's right, nowadays Concept cars are pretty much blinged out production ready shapes.

I saw that epoisode of Top Gear a couple of years after it aired; it was pretty funny knowing now that the production Astra looked almost exactly like the concept car.