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03-05-2011, 08:21 PM | #1 | ||
Regular Member
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Opportunity for FOA and FPV?
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/05/02/l...formance-line/ The Boss 315/335 would be an ideal engine for Lincoln and a point of difference from the supercharged 5.4 in the GT500. |
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03-05-2011, 08:49 PM | #2 | ||
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I'm thinking a souped up SHO. FoA and FPV couldn't be lucky enough to get this sort of gig and the features the base car (Falcon) has simply won't cut it for a Lincoln - especially a hi-po one.
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Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica | 1970 XW Falcon | 1971 XY Fairmont | 1973 ZG Fairlane | 1986 XF Falcon panel van | 1987 XFII Falcon S-Pack | 1988 XF Falcon GLS ute | 1993 EBII Fairmont V8 | 1996 XG Falcon ute | 2000 AU Falcon wagon | 2004 BA Falcon XT | 2012 SZ Territory Titanium AWD Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin |
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03-05-2011, 09:31 PM | #3 | |||
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Quote:
Falcon, today, as it stands is an Australian car. If it wants to go global, it will need some serious dollars spent on it. The basic platform is fantastic, however, comparing it to, say a 5-Series, it is a bit backwards. For it to work as a Lincoln, the I6 will need to die, so more money can be spent on it. One benefit of Lincoln working on a RWD car, is that Fairlane may be able to return, without the mass outlay that it would have required last time.
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03-05-2011, 10:18 PM | #4 | |||
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Quote:
My thoughts are along the lines of what wescoent outlined a while back - CD4 cars made here with RWD performance and luxury cars imported to fill the void left by the last Aussie Falcon. Then again, you could be right...
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Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica | 1970 XW Falcon | 1971 XY Fairmont | 1973 ZG Fairlane | 1986 XF Falcon panel van | 1987 XFII Falcon S-Pack | 1988 XF Falcon GLS ute | 1993 EBII Fairmont V8 | 1996 XG Falcon ute | 2000 AU Falcon wagon | 2004 BA Falcon XT | 2012 SZ Territory Titanium AWD Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin |
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03-05-2011, 10:23 PM | #5 | |||
The 'Stihl' Man
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Ive always thought it odd that Ford/FPV have made the Miami on the promise of such little volume... Taurus/Mondeo et al can all be done better and cheaper elsewhere and FoA's point of difference is the RWD. If not, then thats it IMO, FoA will become a PD hub; other than Aussie job losses I dont have a huge issue with that either.
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Last edited by Polyal; 03-05-2011 at 10:39 PM. |
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03-05-2011, 11:36 PM | #6 | ||
King of the Fairy's.
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I fail to see how this could be an opportunity for FoA or FPV?
Lincoln already have a AWD Sedan with ~260kw and a dual clutch auto. Im sure they could go to a RWD 5.0lt S/C without FoA's help. And if it ever got Sold here it wouldn't be in FPV or Ford form. I highly doubt a re-badges GT is going to cut it for Lincoln buyers. Despite the similarity in size, in terms of quality and equipment it would be easier to upgrade the current lincolns then convert and upgrade the Falcon.
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04-05-2011, 02:51 AM | #7 | ||
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This could be good. I expect it will happen. I hope Mustang keeps a solid axle, a Lincoln coupe on the same platform could have IRS. I would imagine that Lincolns will have AWD, but the Mustang will not. Remember that Lincoln is about technology now, and you are more likely to see EcoBoost and AWD more prevalent than you will see V8 RWD.
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04-05-2011, 09:51 AM | #8 | |||
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however Lincoln have a stated goal to differentiate from Ford, and to include performance as well as luxury. In the first they have all but ruled out even a top hat on an existing US Ford product (they want different Tech, and driveline) If that is Lincoln's starting position, then they are either going for a ground up new car (technology sharing), or base it on something not available in the US Ford lineup. Given that Jag and Volvo are not available to be used to fill that void what would you do ? I would think that a Falcon/Lincoln merged product line is exactly what they want. Take the humble falcon as a base, and merge the platforms to give a Lincoln and post FGII Falcon (a despec'd version of the Lincoln). an LWB version for Lincoln would almost certainly be necessary. Design would be a global effort, with manufacture in Asia (likely including AU) and US and Europe. In Australia the XT may continue as a "Stripper" or possibly be dropped in favour of the Mondeo, leaving the new Falcon as Fairmont/XR and above, and then introduce the US LWB into Au as a Lincoln, or a Ford xxx (where xxx is the the same as the Lincoln model name) The Lincoln would be a Longitudinal AWD (like Audi), the Au Ford could be both RWD and AWD. A similar approach could be used on Mustang, and Territory. I would imagine that this is the cheapest and most realistic way for Lincoln to reach their goals before the current lineup ages too much. http://www.autoblog.com/2011/01/12/r...sheetmetal-po/ Do I think Ford WILL do this ? - that is a different question - this is what they (IMHO) SHOULD do. |
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04-05-2011, 07:04 PM | #9 | |||
Meep Meep
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Thundering on.... |
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04-05-2011, 08:23 PM | #10 | ||
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Problem with the E8 is that it doesnt have the refinement and NVH required for a full-on high spec luxury application like Lincoln. If it is to fly with the likes of Audi, BWM, Cadillac, Lexus et al those things will need work. They will need to ditch the control blade IRS for starters, and run with something that can handle the power AND deliver the required refinement AND not crap bushes every 5 seconds. A double wishbone IRS with forged alloy control arms would be a nice start. Add airbag suspension controlled by the car's ECU and you're halfway there because the front end is already sorted.
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Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica | 1970 XW Falcon | 1971 XY Fairmont | 1973 ZG Fairlane | 1986 XF Falcon panel van | 1987 XFII Falcon S-Pack | 1988 XF Falcon GLS ute | 1993 EBII Fairmont V8 | 1996 XG Falcon ute | 2000 AU Falcon wagon | 2004 BA Falcon XT | 2012 SZ Territory Titanium AWD Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin |
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04-05-2011, 08:32 PM | #11 | ||
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I'm curious, back when Marin Burela was CEO the factory order books were full several months ahead
but since his departure, everything seems to be turning to crap, I really wonder why... Is Ford now building cars they think people will buy without actually taking many dealer orders? |
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04-05-2011, 08:38 PM | #12 | |||
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04-05-2011, 08:52 PM | #13 | ||
Peter Car
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I think Ford would rather build a new platform from scratch for Lincoln rather than use E8 simply due to the not made here syndrome. They keep saying One Ford, but only if it suits them, stiff *** to anyone else.
Hence Mustang and F series stay on their own, and Ford US rejects Ranger, Falcon etc. |
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04-05-2011, 08:56 PM | #14 | |||
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It may well have been turning to poo long before he left. I would like to see (or get an idea of) FoA's Strategic Plan that Bill Osborne stated that he wanted to implement.
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Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica | 1970 XW Falcon | 1971 XY Fairmont | 1973 ZG Fairlane | 1986 XF Falcon panel van | 1987 XFII Falcon S-Pack | 1988 XF Falcon GLS ute | 1993 EBII Fairmont V8 | 1996 XG Falcon ute | 2000 AU Falcon wagon | 2004 BA Falcon XT | 2012 SZ Territory Titanium AWD Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin |
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04-05-2011, 10:27 PM | #15 | ||
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Back OT and whether this could be good for FoA / FPV.
I would say yes. Lincoln have already stated they don't want to do 'just rebadges' anymore. They want to move up. Good on them. FPV can offer a highly developed Coyote based Miami engine that would be fit for a Jaguary / Benz / Lincoln. The $40m spend for the projected Falcon volumes just don't add up. Not at 2,000 annual for 5 years. Ford have with the Territory introduced new longitudinal AWD architecture to the Ford empire where the driveshaft / front axle assembly is fitted / passes through the engine sump. Ford debuted EPAS on a locally built model with SZ Territory and integrated the key componentry and made it lighter, yet added the additional bolted connection to the body for better feel and more rigidity. Further with the Territory, the systems designed to keep the diesel engine noise out of the cabin and contained within the engine bay have proven so effective that it is quieter than Land Rover & BMW X5 diesel models. What a fantastic result and at the driveline lauunch it was talked about how that knowledge will be shared across the Ford global empire. Diesel is hugely important to European markets. A key plank if Lincoln is to go 'Global'. FG Falcon introduced newer drop forged alloy front hubs, modelled off SX-SY Territory but further evolved and with a somehwat AWD convenient looking hole in them too. AU Falcon had a ripper IRS. Make it dropped forged alloy and redesign the mounts and there is a huge chunk of the weight penalty gone. Having closely looked at my AU IRS a large portion of weight was in the mounting arms to reach the regular non irs chassis pickup points. With a dedicated mid-rear section of floorplan, that would no longer be an issue either. Simply, the double wishbone AU IRS was brilliant. It would be gobsmacking in alloy and capable of huge power operation on a long term basis. If Mustang was still to stay live axle, that could keep its own mid-rear section, which might help with headroom in a coupe! Doors are very expensive to design and FG Falcon would have some of the best technology in them in the Ford world. It was said so at the time that they were the most advanced. They used alot of Volvo tech / knowledge and the supercomputing of Ford US. The result is a narrow sectional door width while incorporating some great sealing technology and most importantly with terrific strength and crash protection properties. How much of the FG platform gets used is unknown. But it is 5star ANCAP and got that score with just 2 airbags less than any other car. The structure is a good one. Ford US can provide all the other engines. ie Coyote V8, Duratec V6, EcoBoost V6T & I4T. Ford Europe can provide the diesels. Ford US can provide much of the electrical systems. They have some great systems & tech. Everyone can collaborate on the various Top Hats. ie Europe, Australia & US.
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04-05-2011, 10:57 PM | #16 | |||
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What they undoubtedly did was get a better position for the steering rack and increase parts commonality between Territory. But is the geometry etc actually better? |
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05-05-2011, 12:38 AM | #17 | |||
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05-05-2011, 09:30 AM | #18 | |||
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Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica | 1970 XW Falcon | 1971 XY Fairmont | 1973 ZG Fairlane | 1986 XF Falcon panel van | 1987 XFII Falcon S-Pack | 1988 XF Falcon GLS ute | 1993 EBII Fairmont V8 | 1996 XG Falcon ute | 2000 AU Falcon wagon | 2004 BA Falcon XT | 2012 SZ Territory Titanium AWD Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin |
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05-05-2011, 09:56 AM | #19 | |||
From the Futura
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05-05-2011, 09:58 AM | #20 | ||
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Will FPV rename itself to Lincoln?
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My ride: 2007 Falcon Ute BF XR8 Orange, MTO. |
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05-05-2011, 12:04 PM | #21 | |||
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05-05-2011, 12:22 PM | #22 | ||
NOT A TOYOTA :/
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It's disappointing that FPV/FordAU can't have a helping hand in the Lincoln performance sector. You would think that if GM were doing something similar that Holden would get a look in.
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06 Land Managed to remain in the v8 fraternity |
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05-05-2011, 12:23 PM | #23 | |||
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Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica | 1970 XW Falcon | 1971 XY Fairmont | 1973 ZG Fairlane | 1986 XF Falcon panel van | 1987 XFII Falcon S-Pack | 1988 XF Falcon GLS ute | 1993 EBII Fairmont V8 | 1996 XG Falcon ute | 2000 AU Falcon wagon | 2004 BA Falcon XT | 2012 SZ Territory Titanium AWD Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin |
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05-05-2011, 01:05 PM | #24 | |||
From the Futura
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05-05-2011, 01:57 PM | #25 | |||
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Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica | 1970 XW Falcon | 1971 XY Fairmont | 1973 ZG Fairlane | 1986 XF Falcon panel van | 1987 XFII Falcon S-Pack | 1988 XF Falcon GLS ute | 1993 EBII Fairmont V8 | 1996 XG Falcon ute | 2000 AU Falcon wagon | 2004 BA Falcon XT | 2012 SZ Territory Titanium AWD Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin |
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05-05-2011, 02:03 PM | #26 | |||
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It doesn't mean that with some additional coin that Falcon couldn't be. Most are aware that the big ticket items are engines, gearboxes, suspensions, doors, basic platform architecture and electronics. Kuzak et all have said that it is relatively 'cheap' to create different 'top-hats' for the platforms. This is why the new Gen 3 global Focus will spawn 10 different body styles or top-hats from that one platform. Think of the implications of 10 different tophats for GRWD. * Lincoln performance sedan * Lincoln performance 4 door coupe ala Audi A6 / MB CLS. * Lincoln X5 competitor * Lincoln LWB Town Car / Ford Fairlane At the cheaper end * Mustang * Falcon sedan / 4 door coupe / wagon / utility * Territory
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BA2 XR8 Rapid M6 Ute - Lid - Tint -18s 226.8rwkW@178kmh/537Nm@140kmh 1/9/2013 14.2@163kmh 23/10/2013 Boss349 built. Not yet run. Waiting on a shell. Retrotech thread http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...1363569&page=6 |
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05-05-2011, 11:51 PM | #27 | ||
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I think the top hats generally still have alot of similarities in the floor. Pairing Mustang with anything else though will require a unique rear floor for the Mustang to get the rear seats low enough.
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06-05-2011, 09:23 AM | #28 | ||
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A unique rear is not a problem with a Platform Car.
Look at the Ute - still huge dev and build savings - but a unique rear. |
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06-05-2011, 10:36 AM | #29 | |||
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Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica | 1970 XW Falcon | 1971 XY Fairmont | 1973 ZG Fairlane | 1986 XF Falcon panel van | 1987 XFII Falcon S-Pack | 1988 XF Falcon GLS ute | 1993 EBII Fairmont V8 | 1996 XG Falcon ute | 2000 AU Falcon wagon | 2004 BA Falcon XT | 2012 SZ Territory Titanium AWD Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin |
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09-05-2011, 12:37 AM | #30 | |||
Straight Eight
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Ford knows Lincoln needs something to distinguish itself. Falcon is the answer.
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The Falcon is dead. Long live the Mighty Falcon. |
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