Is e10 fuel really that bad?

[RAPID_BA]

You hear from everywhere that e10 fuel is the worst thing ever made, makes cars do all sorts of rubbish, ruins valves, poor economy, pings, rough driving etc etc

Is this more likely in older cars but newer cars more tolerable?

Does it destroy motors?

[Road Games]

At present every 2nd tank i purchase is E10 with factory tune loaded.. No pinging detected and economy is still reasonable ?

It does get a little rock up at the lights now and again but i don't mind that at all

[FreddyDUZ747]

[QUOTE=HULK_BA]You hear from everywhere that e10 fuel is the worst thing
QUOTE]

Only from the uneducated or one eyed bandits that enjoy jumping on bandwagons.

[Yellow_Festiva]

It's fine for cars that are designed to run on it. Economy may suffer a little.

I hired a Cruze for a week and did my own economy test as I had a lot of freeway driving to do.

ULP returned 6l per 100 (full tank to empty light on) and E10 got me 6.6 in the same scenario.

[MAD]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

It's fine for cars that are designed to run on it. Economy may suffer a little.

I hired a Cruze for a week and did my own economy test as I had a lot of freeway driving to do.

ULP returned 6l per 100 (full tank to empty light on) and E10 got me 6.6 in the same scenario.

That's a 10% increase in fuel consumption. Nothing to be sneezed at.
If it's not 10% cheaper at the pump then I wont buy it.

[charles_wif_xf]

My previous FG had a "Suitable for E10" sticker on the fuel door. I filled it once, it ran like a pig and used about 10% more fuel than regular 91RON fuel.

[RAPID_BA]

So what cars are not designed for it? Pre 2005?

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

So what cars are not designed for it? Pre 2005?

i believe cars designed for it have stainless steel fuel lines and other enhancements to stop the ethanol attacking the rubber seals and other issues it may cause on older cars. My BF is E10 safe, so i use it if there's nothing else available.

[Bad Bird]

Meh, I've run it in my '94 Camry for years and it still runs just as good as it ever has. By that I mean completely boringly.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

So what cars are not designed for it? Pre 2005?

http://www.fcai.com.au/publications/...-blend-petrol-

There is no way to tell other than looking up the specific car.

Eg all BMW cars after 1986 can run on it, but my 99 Festiva couldn't. Nor could a 2006 Mondeo.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Bad Bird

Meh, I've run it in my '94 Camry for years and it still runs just as good as it ever has. By that I mean completely boringly.

It's been used in the wife's Mirage for over 18 months and it has run fine. Prior to this, she never dared used it as her mechanic told her it would kill the engine in 3 months resulting in $XXXX repairs etc etc etc.

[burnz]

if i can find the govco PDF doco that was tested for the damage caused be E10 you will change your mind..
actually the ford faired worst in the test (EL/EF) all the tested engines had pitted and slage type bubbles on the intake valves,
as well as groove from the fuel/air stream as the valves failed to naturally rotate..

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by burnz

if i can find the govco PDF doco that was tested for the damage caused be E10 you will change your mind..
actually the ford faired worst in the test (EL/EF) all the tested engines had pitted and slage type bubbles on the intake valves,
as well as groove from the fuel/air stream as the valves failed to naturally rotate..

What is 'Govco'? Can't seem to find anything about it?

[TheInterceptor]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

What is 'Govco'? Can't seem to find anything about it?

The company running the country into the ground...

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

What is 'Govco'? Can't seem to find anything about it?

theres a few in here allso tested VN/XE efi have a look at the fuel pumps
http://www.environment.gov.au/atmosp...s-vehicles.pdf

more here
http://www.environment.gov.au/atmosp...nol/index.html

[grandpa_spec_F6]

I know of an R33 Skyline that was running on the stuff for about a year, then BOOM! Massive engine issues due to lost compression etc, apparently all the seals had to be replaced and engine rebuilt.

[Ben73]

I have been filling up my Daily for the past few months with E10 only.
It 's getting 11.7 City consumption.

Once this current tank is run right down I will be filling up with 95 only for a few weeks and see if there is much of a change in performance/ consumption.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by burnz

theres a few in here allso tested VN/XE efi have a look at the fuel pumps
http://www.environment.gov.au/atmosp...s-vehicles.pdf

Do you honestly think that PDF is a valid argument against E10?

2 out of the 3 vehicles were never designed to run on E10 and are on the 'will not run on E10' list and the 3rd is very borderline.

And then they ran them on E20, not E10.

Of course they would present with excessive wear and corrosion.

Will look at the 2nd link now.

[2011G6E]

For your new car? Not at all. There is though a disclaimer that it may cause your vehicle to get worse economy. Kind of makes you wonder how deliberately making your car use more fuel is "better for the environment".

Back to the original question:
Bad for your new car? Nope.
Bad for the environment? Yes. It's energy negative...more energy is required to produce it than is contained in the end product. You can't really get away from that little problem I'm afraid.
Not to mention you have to not mind that there are problems with food supply in a lot of poor countries where the government is turning over productive food land for fuel crops instead of using it for stupid stuff like, you know, feeding thier population. Mexico is the current place facing such a problem, but there are others, and probably more to come.

Hell, my mothers 1996 Mazda 121 cannot run on it at all. Neither can my Celica. So what do I do in the golden age to come of no plain unleaded? Use Premium and just pay heaps more for my fuel?

I just long for the day they get rid of Premium and we see tens of thousands of very expensive high performance cars put off the road...then people might finally start to question the lie that is ethanol blend fuel...

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

For your new car? Not at all. There is though a disclaimer that it may cause your vehicle to get worse economy. Kind of makes you wonder how deliberately making your car use more fuel is "better for the environment".

Back to the original question:
Bad for your new car? Nope.
Bad for the environment? Yes. It's energy negative...more energy is required to produce it than is contained in the end product. You can't really get away from that little problem I'm afraid.
Not to mention you have to not mind that there are problems with food supply in a lot of poor countries where the government is turning over productive food land for fuel crops instead of using it for stupid stuff like, you know, feeding thier population. Mexico is the current place facing such a problem, but there are others, and probably more to come.

Hell, my mothers 1996 Mazda 121 cannot run on it at all. Neither can my Celica. So what do I do in the golden age to come of no plain unleaded? Use Premium and just pay heaps more for my fuel?

I just long for the day they get rid of Premium and we see tens of thousands of very expensive high performance cars put off the road...then people might finally start to question the lie that is ethanol blend fuel...

Could you back this up with facts !!!

The reason there is gum in fuel system??
Ethanol cleans the lines from varnish etc built up from ULP fuels...
I've pulled a turbo 6 cyl race engine down many times running E85 ..
The valves etc are as clean as the day it was assembled..

Most Euro Fords don't like E10...

[StrokedXT]

2011g6e doesn't like facts they get in the way of his garbage anti ethanol posts, it takes more energy to get oil from the ground, refine it, transport it, store it, deliver it to your tank and get you a km down the road than it does with ethanol I posted the exact btu numbers in another thread but he ignores it and posts pretty pictures instead.

[MAD]

None of this changes the fact that unless the fuel is 10% cheaper, then it's going to cost us all in the long run.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by StrokedXT

2011g6e doesn't like facts they get in the way of his garbage anti ethanol posts, it takes more energy to get oil from the ground, refine it, transport it, store it, deliver it to your tank and get you a km down the road than it does with ethanol I posted the exact btu numbers in another thread but he ignores it and posts pretty pictures instead.

Until an "alternative" fuel is as energy-dense as petroleum, it's never going to be economical. There are some interesting methods being investigated of producing ethanol from waste products using bacteria to process it. It shows promise, but is a long way off at the moment.

[vztrt]

Don't understand why we need another thread about this.....

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...hlight=ethanol

[RAPID_BA]

Where is there a list of cars that will/will not run on ethanol blent fuel e10?

[JC]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

Where is there a list of cars that will/will not run on ethanol blent fuel e10?

Try googling "List of cars that run on E10"

3rd on the list seems most relevant.

Then try E20 - though not commercially available in Oz (yet).

It is my understanding (and I may be wrong), but from next year, all ULP will contain ethanol as the active octane booster - it is cheaper and more abundant than other forms of octane booster - the reason we pay so much for 95 & 98 blends is the products that go into them to boost the octane up to that level from standard (and standard is not 91 - it's more like 85).

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by burnz

if i can find the govco PDF doco that was tested for the damage caused be E10 you will change your mind..
actually the ford faired worst in the test (EL/EF) all the tested engines had pitted and slage type bubbles on the intake valves,
as well as groove from the fuel/air stream as the valves failed to naturally rotate..

What a crock.

Ran several engines on E85 and valves came out like brand new.... oh did I mention 20+ psi of boost?

10% Ethanol is nothing, cars in Brasil have been on various grades for almost 50 years, they dont use a special valve to stop bubbling.

Daniel

[JC]

Originally Posted by CAT600

What a crock.

Ran several engines on E85 and valves came out like brand new.... oh did I mention 20+ psi of boost?

10% Ethanol is nothing, cars in Brasil have been on various grades for almost 50 years, they dont use a special valve to stop bubbling.

Daniel

The bubbling is probably due to the ethanol lifting the crud from ULP!

And though they might not use any special engine parts, I understand that ethanol will eat some forms of rubber that is "petrol" safe - most manufacturers have upgraded this product over time so that almost every late model car can run E10 - not necessarily anything stronger, but 10% ethanol is nothing, as CAT600 says.

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

Where is there a list of cars that will/will not run on ethanol blent fuel e10?

http://tinyurl.com/5uq4frr

Should help.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Paxton

http://tinyurl.com/5uq4frr

Should help.

How you do that Paxton?? The automated Google search thing?

Hulk, I also posted the direct link to the list in post #10.