HELP re: Insurance dispute for my Dad.

[G6ET8U]

Looking for help here for my Dad.

On Christmas day here in Melbourne his car (VZ Commodore) was extensively damaged due to the hail storms.

He is with RACV.

They replaced the windscreen for free as it was damaged and then put him off to have the car assessed at one of their assessment centres.

He then booked in to have the car assessed and that has happened only a couple of days ago. The assessment was carried out at an RACV centre. They said the bonnet, roof and boot require replacement. Drivers side front quarter panel and door require paintless dent removal and the rear passenger side quarter panel require paintless dent removal.

The car would have nearly 100 if not more dents in it.

He was offered by the assessor the following options to consider.

1. Write the car off, they would send a tow truck to the house to collect the vehicle and a cheque would be posted for the amount of $11450 which is minus the excess.

2. Write the car off, with the option of purchasing it back for $2900.

3. To repair the vehicle.

Now if the vehicle is repaired RACV WILL NOT re insurance the vehicle comprehensively any longer. 3rd Party only.

I discussed this with my father (he is 65 and now a widower) and we decided that he should tell them to write the car off and we will purchase a newer smaller car for him (a Ford Focus ).

He called RACV today and they have recinded the offer to write the car off?!?! No letter, no call, no nothing. They will only repair the car and still not reinsure it comprehensively.

Where on earth do we stand with this. Surely a verbal offer by an authorised person is an offer of contract that can't be recinded unless in writing for starters?

I haven't contacted RACV's claims department on his behalf yet or the ombudsman but will with the assistance of the forums knowledge to know where I stand first of all.

Please help! This isn't right.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by HYPOG6

He called RACV today and they have recinded the offer to write the car off?!?! No letter, no call, no nothing. They will only repair the car and still not reinsure it comprehensively.

I'm no expert in these things but for the insurance to refuse to comprehensively insure the car after a repair would indicate that the repairs are not of sufficient quality. He will be facing financial hardship as the car is now worth less.

I'd go straight to the ombudsman and see if they can help.

[Grunter]

Generally verbal really doesn't count for much, however I'd be contacting the ombudsman with the details of the person you spoke to, date, time, and what to his/your knowledge was said. They should be able to access the phone recording and get it cleared up.

[Dr Smith]

Did the original assessor leave any contact details. I would try and have a polite conversation with him first just to see if he has been told that original his assessment criteria has been altered since his visit with your father.

I would write to the RACV detailing your situation exactly as you have written above (which was very succinct) and have them in writing explain why there is a variation between their assessor's first verbal choices and then their latest change. Has your father had a long association with the RACV as well?

I only caught the very end of a radio interview or caller discussion which mentioned something along your line or possibly new car sales where a car has been hail damaged, repaired and sold without the buyer knowing it's history and then the issue of refused insurance coming up for hail damaged and repaired cars.

I would also contact the ombudsman and then lawyer if you're not happy with the subsequent results.

[G6ET8U]

We have a photocopied paper from the time of assessment with a contact name but no contact phone number. My Dad hasn't the best memory going around anymore but he does recall the person who assessed the car was from Sydney. He is very personable my Dad so would have been very chatty with the fella assessing the car.

He is also one for figures too. Never forgets a number and especially never forgets a price.

Thanks the replies so far. I've checked the RACV site to see what their process is for disputes. I think this counts as one. He was put off on the phone today and a bit confused as to why they would change their original offer and finished the conversation as he wanted to speak to me first to see if this is right.

I am prepared to escalate the claim through their chain of command if the need arises.

[janddbone]

The original offer sounded right, the new one doesn't! Follow it up, as hard as need be...

[G6ET8U]

I've just been on hold for over 20 minutes to be cutoff before being able to speak to anyone.

Not a happy camper. The automated menu is quite specific with regards to 'Are you effected by the recent storms?'... etc.

Went with all of those options... hold. Cutoff.

Getting late in the day now to do anything else and everyone else has now gotten home from work too so I imagine the traffic in to the call centre will be quite high.

For the sake of the thread my Dad was on hold for over 40 mins earlier today waiting.

[janddbone]

Having worked for a large company with a busy call centre, I recommend you use all mediums available to get a response. eg. e-mail, Facebook, a letter or even better might be in person at a shop.
Sadly when things get busy they tend to push the phone software to far and it does start to do things like this. Also if one particular line keeps hanging up on you, just try multiple departments and hopefully you will get someone that can sort it out, people are often trained for multiple scenarios.

[falconnut]

Bad luck, if you get this sorted out i would swap insurance agents if i was you.

[janddbone]

They are all pretty flat out at times like this!

[falconnut]

True but changing their original offer is no excuse.

OP you should really contact the ombudsman asap

[G6ET8U]

I'm looking at all avenues at the moment.

Internally at RACV they escalate from the operator to the claims manager to their manager to internal review to external review.

I'll give them a chance to have their say first as having had another chat to Dad about it he was a bit bewildered after being on hold for so long and then getting the result he did. We had already planned to go car shopping for him. Very disappointing.

Either way, I'll email the Ombudsman/RACV and let them both know the same email is being read by all parties.

I think I'm more disappointed for my Dad really. He's been driving this beat up hail damaged car for nearly a month now to then get told one thing and then told another.

[falconnut]

Yeah its a shame, on a lighter topic what car where you 2 planning to get?

[G6ET8U]

This is a copy of the email I have sent RACV and will send exactly the same email to the ombudsman.

Personal info etc has been deleted for obvious reasons...

I first introduce myself and let them know I am acting on behalf of my father. I have left that part out of the part here I have bolded.

CLAIM NO: xxxxxxxxx

On Christmas day here in Melbourne his car (VZ Commodore) was extensively damaged due to the hail storms.

My mother and father have a 20 year history with RACV.

You replaced the windscreen for free as it was damaged and then put him off to have the car assessed at one of your assessment centres. 52 Barrie Road, Tullamarine.

He then booked in to have the car assessed and that has happened only a couple of days ago. The assessment was carried out at an RACV centre by an authorised assesor. The assessor stated the bonnet, roof and boot require replacement. Drivers side front quarter panel and door require paintless dent removal and the rear passenger side quarter panel require paintless dent removal.

The car would have nearly 100 if not more dents in it.

He was offered by the assessor the following options to consider on behalf of RACV. Not what you might do. What you WILL DO.

1. Write the car off, you would send a tow truck to the house to collect the vehicle and a cheque would be posted for the amount of $11450 which is minus the excess.

2. Write the car off, with the option of purchasing it back for $2900.

3. To repair the vehicle.

Now if the vehicle is repaired you RACV WILL NOT re insure the vehicle comprehensively any longer. 3rd Party only. This in my opinion is not even nearly good enough. If you won't back your repair with full comprehensive insurance then the repair isn't worth completing in the first place. My position is regardless of any of your internal policies.

I discussed this with my father (he is 65 and a recent widower) and we decided that he should tell you to write the car off and we will purchase a smaller car for him now that he is by himself.

He called RACV today and you have apparently now recinded the offer to write the car off?!?! No letter, no call, no nothing. You will only repair the car and still not reinsure it comprehensively. This is not good enough. This is not what he was told at the hail damage centre in Tullamarine by an authorised RACV assessor.

This email in full will also be forwarded to the Insurance Ombudsman for review.
I look forward to hearing from both of you regarding this situation.

I can be contacted anytime on xxxx xxx xxx. I am available on my work number until 1pm M-F xxxx xxxx.

Yours faithfully,
Andrew Jack

[hawke]

About a million years ago, I was involved in the introduction of the General Insurance Code of Practice which included the various dispute methods. I dont believe that process has changed too much.

The first thing to do is to ask for the decision to be reviewed by the Internal Dispute Resolution process. That must happen before you can take it to the next level.

However, there are two issues. One is the writing off of the vehicle, vs reparing, and the second is the insuring of the previously damaged vehicle.

Some insurers belive that the provision of insurance or conditions is not a matter that is a "dispute", and will not refer the matter to the Dispute Resolution process. I dont agree with their interpretation.

Nonetheless, the final decision will be a financial matter. If the cost of repair is less than the market value less the value of salvage and excess, the car will be repaired. If the other way then the car will be written off.

As far as the decision to not give cover for the previously damaged car, this is unfortunalty a typical stupid decision by a stupid underwriter. There is no valid underwriting reason why you would do this. Why wouldnt you want to get some money back after you paid out on the claim?

My advice is to use another insurer.

More detail here

http://www.fos.org.au/centric/home_p...ng_process.jsp

[G6ET8U]

Originally Posted by hawke

About a million years ago, I was involved in the introduction of the General Insurance Code of Practice which included the various dispute methods. I dont believe that process has changed too much.

The first thing to do is to ask for the decision to be reviewed by the Internal Dispute Resolution process. That must happen before you can take it to the next level.

However, there are two issues. One is the writing off of the vehicle, vs reparing, and the second is the insuring of the previously damaged vehicle.

Some insurers belive that the provision of insurance or conditions is not a matter that is a "dispute", and will not refer the matter to the Dispute Resolution process. I dont agree with their interpretation.

Nonetheless, the final decision will be a financial matter. If the cost of repair is less than the market value less the value of salvage and excess, the car will be repaired. If the other way then the car will be written off.

As far as the decision to not give cover for the previously damaged car, this is unfortunalty a typical stupid decision by a stupid underwriter. There is no valid underwriting reason why you would do this. Why wouldnt you want to get some money back after you paid out on the claim?

My advice is to use another insurer.

More detail here

http://www.fos.org.au/centric/home_p...ng_process.jsp

Thanks for that bit of info Hawke!

[falconnut]

Good luck op. I hope i never need that link either hawke but i am insured with nrma but never had to use them.

[G6ET8U]

It's suprising the people you know and then the scope of what they know...

One of my mates works for a panel beater, here in Melbourne. Major panel beater.

Yet to speak to him on the phone but he tells me (via SMS) if they repair it and won't insure it again they are repairing a repairable right off and giving it back. This is my major concern for my Dad. With my mother/his wife dying only 5 months ago. I don't need him to have to worry about this kind of stuff. The insurance around my Mum has been more than enough to have to deal with.

That is also why I am taking over the process from here. I don't stuff around. I don't sit on the end of call centre hold music more than once. I don't care how busy you are, I provide cr@p service at my work I get my butt kicked. I don't do this, so I expect it back.


Righto.

[G6ET8U]

Update

Received a call today from the head of the hail damage centre in Tullamarine.

He has read my email and reviewed the case.

Car is now a write off. At our earliest convenience the car will be collected from our house by a tow truck (as originally promised).

Couldn't have been more apologetic on the phone. Great result!

Thanks to the forum members who assited with the posts above!

[charles_wif_xf]

Good to hear its all sorted.

[G6ET8U]

Originally Posted by falconnut

Yeah its a shame, on a lighter topic what car where you 2 planning to get?

Sorry falconnut!

I never answered this mate.

Ford Focus! Looking at spending around 20k and Dad likes the Zetec cars as they are fairly sporty!

Out of a Holden and in to a Ford! Just like his son!

[falconboy]

Great outcome indeed!

Hope your dad enjoys his new car when he gets it.

Think hard about who you insure with though.

[Jason[98.EL]]

great to hear that it is all worked out and even better to hear is the fact he is going from hhhhhhholden to FORD

[BadMax]

Good outcome for you, this shows that RACV are not unreasonable unlike any of the Suncorp companies.

[Dr Smith]

Excellent news G6ET8U, safe motoring to your dad.

[davocol]

Good on them, your letter was well worded, factual and reminded them of your loyalty to RACV. Thankfully big companies often have decent capable people working in them, you just have to be lucky to find them.

[falconnut]

Great outcome, glad we could help.

[blackf6]

good job mate excellent outcome.