Welcome to the Australian Ford Forums forum.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and inserts advertising. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features without post based advertising banners. Registration is simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Please Note: All new registrations go through a manual approval queue to keep spammers out. This is checked twice each day so there will be a delay before your registration is activated.

Go Back   Australian Ford Forums > General Topics > The Pub

The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 25-01-2012, 09:43 PM   #1
tweeked
N/A all the way
 
tweeked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,459
Default Double clutch transmissions?

I drive hire cars regularly in my work. I have plenty of experience with Audi and VW dsg boxes and have never liked them much. I put it down to that's what they are like in that family. I have just driven 300 km today in a brand new Focus. The car is great, but again the tranny is horrid.

Anything other than smooth, constant throttle completely confuses the micro chips out of it. This plus a reluctance to start moving sometimes. The VW and Audi were similar. On one hill turning right I momentarily lifted off then tried to accelerate, and it took a good 2 seconds to even start moving. It would have been dangerous if a car was coming.

My old 4 speed auto 2003 camry 4 cylinder is much more predictable and far smoother. I understand the efficiency gains, but I don't think I could live with the apparent lack of intuition of the tranny. I have never heard any negative comments about dsg boxes. Is it just the love in that motor journos seem to have with VW, or am I just doing it wrong?

__________________
BA GT
5.88 litres of Modular Boss Powered Muscle
300++ RWKW N/A on 98 octane on any dyno, happy or sad, on any day, with any operator you choose - 12.39@115.5 full weight

tweeked is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 25-01-2012, 09:50 PM   #2
Franco Cozzo
Thailand Specials
 
Franco Cozzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,815
Default Re: Double clutch transmissions?

I think the VW vans we're converting to police brawlers at work have one of these DSG gearboxes, it takes no less than 2 seconds to go into R from D, you select R, the car will free rev like its in neutral then pop into reverse.

I think the latest Mercedes Sprinter is similar, or a CVT transmission and it takes a similar amount of time to go from R to D, plus it feels laggy and very slow to respond compared to the older model's traditional slushbox.
Franco Cozzo is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 25-01-2012, 09:53 PM   #3
falconnut
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NSW
Posts: 1,428
Default Re: Double clutch transmissions?

Yikes, glad i got my old reliable 4 speed slushbox, that 2 second lag sounds scary.
__________________
2001 Falcon Fairmont AU2
Big turbo coming
Lsd
falconnut is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 25-01-2012, 10:30 PM   #4
Mechan1k
Moderator
Donating Member1
 
Mechan1k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Kenthurst
Posts: 40,403
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Brings a wealth of knowledge to the forums and is frequently giving helpful advice. Technical Contributor: For members who share their technical expertise. - Issue reason: Always willing to help out with technical information. 
Default Re: Double clutch transmissions?

Don't worry ... B-series 4-speed autos come standard with the 2 second lag from R to D .... the AU was much better in that department (and better again with a rebuilt/strengthened BTR).

Mate of mine decided on the 6-speed manual for his Mk V Golf TDi .... as he was not a fan of the DSG after a test drive.
Mechan1k is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 25-01-2012, 11:19 PM   #5
mik
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
mik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
Default Re: Double clutch transmissions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tweeked
I drive hire cars regularly in my work. I have plenty of experience with Audi and VW dsg boxes and have never liked them much. I put it down to that's what they are like in that family. I have just driven 300 km today in a brand new Focus. The car is great, but again the tranny is horrid.

Anything other than smooth, constant throttle completely confuses the micro chips out of it. This plus a reluctance to start moving sometimes. The VW and Audi were similar. On one hill turning right I momentarily lifted off then tried to accelerate, and it took a good 2 seconds to even start moving. It would have been dangerous if a car was coming.

My old 4 speed auto 2003 camry 4 cylinder is much more predictable and far smoother. I understand the efficiency gains, but I don't think I could live with the apparent lack of intuition of the tranny. I have never heard any negative comments about dsg boxes. Is it just the love in that motor journos seem to have with VW, or am I just doing it wrong?
it does`nt take much looking to find plenty of complaints for them, the volksy ones get a good share of complaints too.
mik is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 26-01-2012, 04:20 PM   #6
Werd.
nou
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 634
Default Re: Double clutch transmissions?

It's not even just the DSGs, the 6 speed auto in the Tiguan is awful, the other day I planned to give it a bit to slip infront of a falcon that was approaching from the right at a roundabout, foot down, nothing happened for at least 2 seconds, made me look like a bit of a rude idiot with him having to slow down.
Werd. is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 26-01-2012, 04:27 PM   #7
falconnut
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NSW
Posts: 1,428
Default Re: Double clutch transmissions?

I get the couple of seconds lag between r and d but not in any of the forward gears like these dsg boxes.
__________________
2001 Falcon Fairmont AU2
Big turbo coming
Lsd
falconnut is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 26-01-2012, 04:56 PM   #8
Mackspower
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 120
Default Re: Double clutch transmissions?

Got a Ford Mondeo Titanium hatch with a dual clutch auto . . . gearbox lags like hell. Can be really dangerous when merging from a standstill.

On the move they're beautiful. I click it into Sports mode now when throttle responsiveness is critical.

I would happily sacrifice the some of the fantastic fuel economy achieved by this first gear/launch control madness to get the responsiveness. Hope Ford take to heart the Customer focus group feedback.
Mackspower is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 26-01-2012, 05:22 PM   #9
Nic85
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 677
Default Re: Double clutch transmissions?

I've said it on here before. This kind of behaviour is concomitant with all dual clutch transmissions. You think about the way they work inside. The clutches still have to "slip" to engage the gears, so stand still starting will always be jerky and laggy as a computer is controlling the clutch slip.

I've personally driven 4 different cars with dual clutch transmissions. A Ralliart Lancer, Lancer Evo X MR, VW Golf GTi and VW Passat TDi. All of them were exactly how the OP described them.
Nic85 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 27-01-2012, 09:02 AM   #10
Mackspower
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 120
Default Re: Double clutch transmissions?

I think the point is dual-clutch boxes can certainly be improved upon. The simple example I gave of switching between full-auto and sports mode makes a significant difference to the engagement speed and responsiveness to throttle input.

Manufacturers need to remap engine management and gearbox control to solve the launch problem . . . it really is dangerous and importantly - avoidable.
Mackspower is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 27-01-2012, 10:20 AM   #11
Rodp
Regular Schmuck
 
Rodp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,640
Default Re: Double clutch transmissions?

Your VW DSG experience is complete opposite to mine.

I still rate the box in my R32 as the best I'd ever owned by far - you just had to learn how to use it effectively. If you went from whoa to go on the pedal, you had to give it ~0.5 seconds for it to grab the gear otherwise you'd jerk forward - much the same as my ZF F6. For gear changes, it always knew what gear I wanted after it learned my habits.

Perhaps the Focus also requires a period of learning your driving habits for it to be running optimally..? Certainly not something that'll happen in a hire car.
Rodp is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 27-01-2012, 10:56 AM   #12
falconnut
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NSW
Posts: 1,428
Default Re: Double clutch transmissions?

Yikes i would rather drive a 6speed manual box than have these slippy DSG.
__________________
2001 Falcon Fairmont AU2
Big turbo coming
Lsd
falconnut is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Reply


Forum Jump


All times are GMT +11. The time now is 05:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Other than what is legally copyrighted by the respective owners, this site is copyright www.fordforums.com.au
Positive SSL