Diesel Cars Dying ? Sales Increasing...

csv8 · 24-05-2012, 08:47 AM

Quite a few posts on diesel dying ??
EMERGING BUYER PREFERENCE FOR DIESEL SUVs

3rd May, 2012
Official VFACTS data released today by the Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries (FCAI) shows an emerging buyer preference for diesel sports utility vehicles in the continuing strong market for SUVs.

Overall, 79,097 vehicles were sold in April, an increase of 6.6 per cent (or 4,833 vehicles) compared to the same month in 2011. On a year to date basis, this is a 5.1 per cent increase (16,541 vehicles) on sales for the first four months in 2011.

“Yet again, SUVs dominate the Australian vehicle market, with sales increasing for all sizes of SUVs in the private, business and rental sectors,” FCAI Chief Executive Ian Chalmers said. “This month however we can also see an interesting emergence of customer preference for diesel powered SUVs.”

Private sales for diesel SUVs increased by 56.0 per cent (or 1,530 vehicles) compared to the same month in 2011, and 47.9 per cent (5,485) for the same four-month period last year. Similarly, non-private sales for diesel SUVs increased by 47.5 per cent (1,507) compared with April 2011 and 39.3 percent (5,588) for the same period in 2011. Overall, SUV sales increased by 24.4 per cent compared with the same period last year.

Meanwhile sales are down for large passenger vehicles, but medium passenger car sales continue to be strong, up 14.6 per cent (3,428) compared with the same period last year. Sales of sports cars show a healthy resurgence with an increase of 36.1 per cent (1,680) compared with the same period.

Sales of locally manufactured vehicles are up 17.1 per cent compared to the same period last year.

The popular Mazda3 was pipped at the post in April by the Toyota HiLux with 3,565 sales.

Toyota was the best performing brand in April selling 16,568 vehicles, followed by Mazda with 7,681 and then Holden with 7,589.

prydey · 24-05-2012, 09:47 AM

i've found that on here, when the subject of diesel in passenger cars comes up, there are many who only read what they want to read.

this article is referring to SUV's. i don't think too many people would argue that diesel is dying in that market!!

some euro manufacturers are saying it could become very difficult to make diesel meet new emissions targets in the future.

i don't think there is a story here. sounds like someone doing a bit of fishing on AFF to me. look, its got one bite already.

Joe5619 · 24-05-2012, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

i've found that on here, when the subject of diesel in passenger cars comes up, there are many who only read what they want to read.

this article is referring to SUV's. i don't think too many people would argue that diesel is dying in that market!!

some euro manufacturers are saying it could become very difficult to make diesel meet new emissions targets in the future.

i don't think there is a story here. sounds like someone doing a bit of fishing on AFF to me. look, its got one bite already.

Thankyou!!! Bold part says it all!!!

csv8 · 24-05-2012, 01:44 PM

From : Diesel Care :
Audi produces several diesel-powered models and variants, currently available in The Diesel Passenger Car Revolution Europe, including the A3 and A6. The new 2.0L A4 TDi provides an output of 104kW at 4,000rpm and 320 NM torque. VW, Mercedes Benz, Peugeot, and Citroen offer diesel options in almost all their cars.

Honda, it is reported, have developed a new generation diesel engine which will be available as an option in the future.

So, never before has there been a better time to consider a diesel next time you are buying a passenger car..

jpd80 · 24-05-2012, 02:01 PM

Well at the end of 2011,
Diesel cars are still increasing as a proportion of the total but at 8%, diesel is still a minor player compared to petrol at 90.24%.

Hybrids are at 1.48% and LPG a meager 0.29% but since Holden and Ford produce nearly all of them in large cars,
it makes sense to pursue that niche market..

BHDOGS · 24-05-2012, 02:43 PM

why do people feel the need to keep pointing out the obvious on this site to people who already know unless the ceo of ford pops on this site telling people who already know about this crap it pointless thread closed

Road_Warrior · 24-05-2012, 02:50 PM

What is the source link, from which site was this "article" obtained from? IMO you do this sort of thing far too often and it shouldnt be allowed, at least give us a source link.

csv8 · 24-05-2012, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

What is the source link, from which site was this "article" obtained from? IMO you do this sort of thing far too often and it shouldnt be allowed, at least give us a source link.

I did , first line, From : Diesel Care...and I don't leave link outs "too often"
http://www.dieselcare.com.au/the-die...car-revolution

Road_Warrior · 24-05-2012, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

I did , first line, From : Diesel Care...and I don't leave link outs "too often"
http://www.dieselcare.com.au/the-die...car-revolution

The article in that link bears absolutely no resemblance to the article you started this thread with.

**PepeLePew** · 24-05-2012, 04:06 PM

http://www.fcai.com.au/news/all/all/...or-diesel-suvs

CSV8, please ALWAYS provide links to sources, it is appropriate for validating the posted content as well as to give credit appropriately to the original authors

jpd80 · 24-05-2012, 06:30 PM

A quick look at Russell's statistical data will tell all the facts concisely...

Members only though....
http://fordforums.com.au/pub_images/Fuel1112a.jpg

http://fordforums.com.au/pub_images/Fuel1112aa.jpg

Franco Cozzo · 24-05-2012, 06:35 PM

Diesel might not sell much in passenger cars as we've seen a trend, but LPG sure as hell sells a lot less to the public, so why bother with the EcoLPI? It might be good, but being good doesn't mean it sells.

naddis01 · 24-05-2012, 06:42 PM

From those graphs it looks to me like diesel is in fact on the rise for passenger cars (as well as SUV's) going from around 7000 in 2005 to over 44500 in 2011.

jpd80 · 24-05-2012, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naddis01

From those graphs it looks to me like diesel is in fact on the rise for passenger cars (as well as SUV's) going from around 7000 in 2005 to over 44500 in 2011.

Yes, the overall percentage in cars now stands at 8% but that is still small compared to petrol at 90%.

naddis01 · 24-05-2012, 08:36 PM

Yes definately still small but it still means that diesel passenger cars (not including SUV's and commercials) accounts for almost 5% of the total market. In my opinion that is hard to ignore especially considering that in about 2005 it would have been closer to 0.5% of the total market.

Kevaclone · 26-05-2012, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

some euro manufacturers are saying it could become very difficult to make diesel meet new emissions targets in the future.
.

Those manufacturers who don't want to convert to SCR(Selective catalytic Reduction) will say that

SCR allows for huge power increases without the heat and emissions associated with EGR(Exhaust Gas Recirculation) type diesels

The heavy vehicle engine manufacturers are all going to SCR to meet the next round of emissions regs. Look at Volvo and Scania, both running truck engines above 700hp. Mack have a new Volvo based engine running 680HP. The output of these engines is well above the other EGR engines but without the heat issues

SCR engine needs a product called "Add Blue"(not actually blue) which is a Urea solution that is sprayed into the exhaust gases reducing harmful emissions

The problem is "Add Blue" costs almost the same as diesel and is an added cost, it wouldn't be a huge cost on a passenger vehicle running at about 2% of the total fuel used butI expect it would scare a lot of potential buyers off since it would still add to the running costs
The problem of finding "Add Blue" is getting easier as most major servos have it, either in 4L containers or pump dispensers

csv8 · 26-05-2012, 08:42 PM

Peugot use Add Blue in their cars.

burnz · 27-05-2012, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Yes, the overall percentage in cars now stands at 8% but that is still small compared to petrol at 90%.

from the link you provided.
petrol:87% (2005) 72% (2011)

diesel:11% (2005) 27% (2011)

**buggerlugs** · 27-05-2012, 08:10 AM

When we bought our new Mazda CX5 diesel recently, they had plenty of petrol models available but there was a huge waiting list on the diesels.......

jpd80 · 27-05-2012, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

from the link you provided.
petrol:87% (2005) 72% (2011)

diesel:11% (2005) 27% (2011)

That's the overall percentages for petrol and diesel across all vehicle types
and reflects the massive upswing
of diesel use in SUVs and light commercials where the percentages are now 35.56% and 77..49% respectively.

If you look at cars only, diesel has grown from 1.18% in 2005 to 8% in 2011 but the underlying trend is there.
Considering that there was a drop in total sales in 2011 compared to 2010, diesel sales stayed within 1,072
of the 2011 figure where petrol fell by 27,713 units, now that's impressive.

Diesels in sedans also tend to be a more expensive option and ind Ford's case sometimes hard to source for buyers.
I sometimes wonder how large car sales would be with a diesel offering, since Ecoboost Falcon's economy is almost identical
to Mondeo figures, it only stands to reason that a 2.0 diesel Falocn would be in the low 6.x l/100 km, something to ponder...

naddis01 · 27-05-2012, 08:44 AM

My future engine lineup would be...
Sedan -
2.0 Ecoboost as standard engine
Either 2.2 higher output diesel from Mondeo that we don't get (assuming supply is available) or lower spec 3.0
5.0 Coyote or Miami for sports

Ute
Diesel as standard. The commercial market is moving away from petrol.
5.0

The 2.7 diesel would not be economical enough for a sedan in my opinion. Not without the performance to match anyway. Mid 7's just would cut it economy wise.

jpd80 · 27-05-2012, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naddis01

My future engine lineup would be...
Sedan -
2.0 Ecoboost as standard engine
Either 2.2 higher output diesel from Mondeo that we don't get (assuming supply is available) or lower spec 3.0
5.0 Coyote or Miami for sports

Ute
Diesel as standard. The commercial market is moving away from petrol.
5.0

The 2.7 diesel would not be economical enough for a sedan in my opinion. Not without the performance to match anyway. Mid 7's just would cut it economy wise.

The 3.0 V6 Diesel in Jaguar XF gets 6.4 l/100 km with near on 600 nm available..

I'm thinking that 4.0 petrol sales will really nose dive in the next three years,
especially if fuel prices climb with a falling dollar and we're in a life boat situation here,
so my line up across the board would be 2.0 EB, upgraded 3.0 V6 diesel, and 5.0 V8.
Those three engines would cover most buyer needs in Falcon, Ute and Territory.

naddis01 · 27-05-2012, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naddis01

Mid 7's just would cut it economy wise.

That should read would not cut it. Low 6's or even 5's is where it's at these days.

The lower spec 3.0 diesel in the XF (according to Wheels mag) has 177kw and 500Nm for 6.3L/100. The higher spec is 202kw and 600Nm for 7.0-7.2L/100. I think the lower spec would provide more than enough performance in the Falcon. Would it be any cheaper than the higher spec to produce?

jpd80 · 27-05-2012, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naddis01

That should read would not cut it. Low 6's or even 5's is where it's at these days.

The lower spec 3.0 diesel in the XF (according to Wheels mag) has 177kw and 500Nm for 6.3L/100. The higher spec is 202kw and 600Nm for 7.0-7.2L/100. I think the lower spec would provide more than enough performance in the Falcon. Would it be any cheaper than the higher spec to produce?

Well what about the 2.2 diesel XF, it has 8-speed auto as well as stop start but manages 5.4 l/100 km?
I think with the vehicle weight of Jag XF and FGII Falcon, you reach a point of diminishing returns.

At some point we have to consider hybrid technology... and since the new Fusion (aka Mondeo) already has it
and gives better economy than Camry hybrid, then maybe the answer is staring us in the face..

The answers are already done, Diesel Mondeo and Hybrid Fusion.

burnz · 27-05-2012, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Well what about the 2.2 diesel XF, it has 8-speed auto as well as stop start but manages 5.4 l/100 km?
I think with the vehicle weight of Jag XF and FGII Falcon, you reach a point of diminishing returns.

At some point we have to consider hybrid technology... and since the new Fusion (aka Mondeo) already has it
and gives better economy than Camry hybrid, then maybe the answer is staring us in the face..

The answers are already done, Diesel Mondeo and Hybrid Fusion.

what erk's me is that hybrid is allways done with petrol,
why isn't done with LPi or diesel?
cant tell me that you wouldnt get better $$$ economy with that type of setup.

Yellow_Festiva · 27-05-2012, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

what erk's me is that hybrid is allways done with petrol,
why isn't done with LPi or diesel?
cant tell me that you wouldnt get better $$$ economy with that type of setup.

I agree. I remember reading a few years ago that the Kia Cerato was being developed with a gas / hybrid drivetrain. If it was to go to production it would have been a 'world first'... wonder what happened to it?

Bossxr8 · 27-05-2012, 03:34 PM

Peugeot have a new diesel hybrid. Very heavy so economy isn't as good as you'd expect.

jpd80 · 27-05-2012, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

what erk's me is that hybrid is allways done with petrol,
why isn't done with LPi or diesel?
cant tell me that you wouldnt get better $$$ economy with that type of setup.

Diesel hybrid will come eventually but there's a problem with the periodic use of diesel and start up emissions.

jpd80 · 27-05-2012, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Peugeot have a new diesel hybrid. Very heavy so economy isn't as good as you'd expect.

The thing you notice in smaller vehicles is the weight of an I-4 diesel, it about 60 Kg more but something
like the new 1.0 I-3 Ecoboost is around 40 Kg lighter than a petrol I-4 so there's a 100 Kg turnaround.

Mind you, I do wish we could reconfigure Geelong engine for I-4 Diesel and Ecoboost assembly,
value adding with regional exports and providing the inspiration for new directions locally.

Road_Warrior · 27-05-2012, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

what erk's me is that hybrid is allways done with petrol,
why isn't done with LPi or diesel?
cant tell me that you wouldnt get better $$$ economy with that type of setup.

Hyundai were offereing an LPG hybrid Elantra a couple of years back...but of course you couldnt get one here...