Could the Falcon be "shrunk"

[falcon convert]

We all know that all the experts are telling us that the Falcon has until 2016, then it is gone. These same experts are telling us that the main reason is because Australia has fallen out of love with large sedans.

Well I don't want to give up on all those Aussie jobs yet. I'm wondering if, with the Falcon going to the Ecoboost 4, would it be possible for Falcon to live on after 2016 as a shrunken model. No massive and expensive changes, just use the existing platform and shorten the front overhang (which has a lot of redundant space when the I6 is not being used) and shorten the rear overhang (cutting down the boot a bit). Turn a large car into a medium car and see what the punters make of it.
- Is it feasible?
- Would it look any good or would it look ridiculous?
- Would you buy a smaller Falcon if it still had the same interior size and still still handled well?
Maybe I have my head in the sand and am pi*****ing into the wind at the same time.
Over to you boys (and girls) - discuss.

[Ducati888]

Yes. Five years ago, Ford should have renamed the Mondeo "Falcon" and made it here with a new age diesel engine option. People seem to want either people movers (SUV's) or smaller sedans. Lots of fleets are using Subaru Liberties and that seems to be the benchmark size now. Between that, the Ranger and the new Terry, they would have had the bulk of the market covered.

The Commodore fell to the Falcon in the early 80's because it was small, and that handed Falcon the market leadership trophy for years, until Commodore caught up with the VN. Now it should be the other way around. The original Commodore is the right size now and downsizing is what is needed.

[Marquis]

Bring back the cortina.

[MAD]

Is the Falcon really a 'large' car by today's standards?
All the small cars have grown, giving reason for the makers to make new 'micro' models, but the Falcon hasn't really changed all that much. It should be at least two lanes wide by now if it followed growth trends of smaller cars.

[Vormund]

Best thing would be to base it off the next gen Mustang. Yeah basically a 4 door Mustang.

It can use EB4, V6 and Coyote.

[csv8]

Originally Posted by Marquis

Bring back the cortina.

No..the TELSTAR....

[Ducati888]

Originally Posted by MAD

Is the Falcon really a 'large' car by today's standards?
All the small cars have grown, giving reason for the makers to make new 'micro' models, but the Falcon hasn't really changed all that much. It should be at least two lanes wide by now if it followed growth trends of smaller cars.

It's about perception and marketing, which has been mentioned here many times. It's seen as a big car, and an inline 6 is seen as thirsty. We all know thats rubbish, but we are enthusiasts, not the general public. The very same people who see the Falcon as 'thirsty' would be the ones flocking to a Mazda CX7 or 9, or Prado, or one of those butt ugly Mercedes SUV's, all of which get 13 or 14 L/100km, versus the Falcon's 10.

Perception is everything. The buying public are cretins and are easily led.

Originally Posted by csv8

No..the TELSTAR....

This is not as silly as it seems. The Telstar was a rebadged Mazda 626, which is, in 2012, the Mazda 6. Look at what a success that model has been in the last ten years, only dropping in popularity recently because it's been more or less unchanged in that time, like the Honda Accord Euro.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by MAD

Is the Falcon really a 'large' car by today's standards?
All the small cars have grown, giving reason for the makers to make new 'micro' models, but the Falcon hasn't really changed all that much. It should be at least two lanes wide by now if it followed growth trends of smaller cars.

Truth in sizing.
Small cars have now grown to almost the same size as a late 1990s mid sized cars
and mid sized cars have now grown to almost the size of large cars.

So when some look at segment sales and say that mid sized cars don't really sell that well,
what we should consider is that Samall cars should be grouped as the new mid size
and both large mid size and large cars should be grouped together.

Doing that makes a lot of sense in understand what's really happening in the market with cars.

[Mr Hardware]

Car sizes are getting silly. My current model Corolla is the same size as a 1990 Camry. A VE is bigger than a Kingswood!

The falcon on the other hand, has always been about the same size. About 186cm wide and about 480cm long. Been that way for about 45 years.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Car sizes are getting silly. My current model Corolla is the same size as a 1990 Camry. A VE is bigger than a Kingswood!

The falcon on the other hand, has always been about the same size. About 186cm wide and about 480cm long. Been that way for about 45 years.

I saw an EB Falcon parked next to a new Mondeo, from the rear the new Mondeo made the Falcon look small..
Check out a VE commodore next to an early VB/VK and OMG, they are huge

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Car sizes are getting silly. My current model Corolla is the same size as a 1990 Camry. A VE is bigger than a Kingswood!

The falcon on the other hand, has always been about the same size. About 186cm wide and about 480cm long. Been that way for about 45 years.

BA parked next to XA... BA fatty monsters all over XA..

[TC200six]

Look at the evolution of the Honda Accord. A perfect example of how a small car became large.

[JimStone]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I saw an EB Falcon parked next to a new Mondeo, from the rear the new Mondeo made the Falcon look small..
Check out a VE commodore next to an early VB/VK and OMG, they are huge

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by TC200six

Look at the evolution of the Honda Accord. A perfect example of how a small car became large.

I can relate to that over the years too !!!Lol..

[Maka]

Originally Posted by MAD

Is the Falcon really a 'large' car by today's standards?
All the small cars have grown, giving reason for the makers to make new 'micro' models, but the Falcon hasn't really changed all that much. It should be at least two lanes wide by now if it followed growth trends of smaller cars.

Well it does weigh as much as a medium to large'ish 4WD now in 2020 it could've weighed in around the two ton mark.

Even if they could downsize the Falcon it probably wont happen but without doubt its great idea. It would make a better drivers car for sure. What about BMW, going by weight, 3 series has grown into the 5 series, 5 series grown into 7 series. In that time the original concept ethos has disappeared and is that the reason the original 1 series was put onto the market?

cheers,Maka

[jpd80]

I guess it would be possible for a redesigned RWD Falcon to be both a Mid sized car and a large car,
Much the same way that Camry and Aurion are used by Toyota, sure Aurion has a lot of changes but still...

Smiled the other day,
Seems that 2013 Fusion is more than just current Mondeo with different nose and US switchgear,
- new car has around 25 mm more shoulder with and rear leg room than current Mondeo
- Interior dimensions are almost I identical to D3 Taurus (Taurus boot is bigger).
- 2013 Lincoln MKZ is fitted with 3.7 V6 and AWD

So now Ford's global mid sized car platform has grown a tad and has much wider engine choices...

[bmorris]

I could not agree with this more. I have been thinking for a while now that this is the path Ford Australia should of gone down with the FG. Rather then each model getting larger and larger, it should of gotten smaller. Not by a lot, but enough to really show how close in size it is to medium sized/"small" cars.

Not only is fuel costing more these days but parking spacers are becoming smaller and harder to find. Owner a larger car is becoming harder, something a lot of the new SUV owners must be really noticing.

[JG34JA]

Looking at the EcoBoost, there's smaller wheels, it's lower slung, less weight, lighter over the front, and features a power/torque setup not far from the AU Falcon (more Kw, similar torque). Visually, modern cars are massive compared to their forebears, but the FG is assisted by the 'tumblehome' designed into the ends.

It's a step in the right direction, for sure.

[falconnut]

Exactly, when i park next to a FG i think how much smaller it could have been, even the wheels are too big.

[FPV]

Is there much of a point shrinking the Falcon down to Mondeo territory? To me, the Mondeo is the global medium size car, if you are going to shrink the Falcon to the same size, you may as well get rid of it, to me this is the type of overlap where One Ford would kick in.

Will downsizing the Falcon be noticeable to the general public, will the perception of the vehicle change from a 100mm length reduction? What benefits will a downsized Falcon bring over a Mondeo, other than being RWD (which I am not sure the general public are too concerned about and will reduce interior space), and possibly fitting a v8 in it?

I think Falcon/Territory will continue into the future as the world still buys large class cars (e.g. 5 series, Hyundai Genesis), its just out of favor currently in Australia and Ford have said they will not neglect the 10-15% this class offers worldwide.

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...25797F007F4439

I think for the Ford enthusiast, this Falcon death talk is getting a bit draining, pick any month this year and we would have had an article about Falcon's death and recently FPV's death, and the usual suspects can only reassure us of Falcon's future with what they know and they cannot be reiterating themselves every time a new article is out.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by Marquis

Bring back the cortina.

+1 for Lotus.

Originally Posted by csv8

No..the TELSTAR....

Don't need another Mazda when the Mazda3 is already the top seller.

[small_ford]

This on Bloomberg today at http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...rope-cars.html

Genk, Belgium

Ford’s plant in Genk also could be vulnerable, according to Rhys. Genk built 178,000 vehicles last year, about 68 percent of its capacity, according to Ford. The plant builds the Mondeo, the European equivalent of the Fusion, the S-Max wagon and Galaxy minivan. Ford said Mondeo sales fell 11.5 percent this year, S-Max is off 6.6 percent and Galaxy up 1.4 percent.

“Genk is hanging on as a marginal plant,” said Rhys, who said the European market is shrinking for mid-sized sedans like the Mondeo. “Can you justify making a Mondeo at that plant for what’s basically now become a very, very small market?”

Ford has said it will begin building a redesigned version of the Mondeo in Genk next year, and it has a labor contract to build mid-sized models there that runs through 2014.

Asked about possible plant closings, Mark Truby, a company spokesman, said: “It’s premature to talk about what our plans may be.”


Sounds familiar? Wouldn't it be a cool idea if Ford could build the next Mondeo alongside the Falcon/Territory. RHD could go to Australia, NZ, South Africa, Japan and the UK. LHD could go to AsIa and Europe. The European car industry is in crisis, Ford's market share is down 16% to June. If Ford had to shut a big plant Genk would be it.

[falconnut]

Yikes, looks like Ford are finally going to cop the GFC on the chin.

Shame that Ford Australia doesnt want to admit anything and just shove its fingers in its ears and scream lalalalaalaa

[mash again]

make it out of plastic and drive it into an oven remove when your size is achieved, just like an old salt and vinegar chip bag................

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by small_ford

This on Bloomberg today at http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...rope-cars.html

Genk, Belgium

Ford’s plant in Genk also could be vulnerable, according to Rhys. Genk built 178,000 vehicles last year, about 68 percent of its capacity, according to Ford. The plant builds the Mondeo, the European equivalent of the Fusion, the S-Max wagon and Galaxy minivan. Ford said Mondeo sales fell 11.5 percent this year, S-Max is off 6.6 percent and Galaxy up 1.4 percent.

“Genk is hanging on as a marginal plant,” said Rhys, who said the European market is shrinking for mid-sized sedans like the Mondeo. “Can you justify making a Mondeo at that plant for what’s basically now become a very, very small market?”

Ford has said it will begin building a redesigned version of the Mondeo in Genk next year, and it has a labor contract to build mid-sized models there that runs through 2014.

Asked about possible plant closings, Mark Truby, a company spokesman, said: “It’s premature to talk about what our plans may be.”


Sounds familiar? Wouldn't it be a cool idea if Ford could build the next Mondeo alongside the Falcon/Territory. RHD could go to Australia, NZ, South Africa, Japan and the UK. LHD could go to AsIa and Europe. The European car industry is in crisis, Ford's market share is down 16% to June. If Ford had to shut a big plant Genk would be it.

That would be a good plan for stabilising Broadmeadows and supplies of Mondeo.

Mondeo is already being built in China and Russia, Hermosillo is about to change and Flat Rock will join it next year.

I could see Russia supplying Europe and Broadmeadows supplying Aus, NZ, S/E Asia, India and Africa.

Mondeos (plus S-max and Galaxy?) built in Russia could be transported to Europe for sale.


The new US Fusion is much closer to Falcon's internal dimensions, Fusion is also available with AWD and a hybrid version
and Lincoln variation is being advertised with 3.7 V6 and AWD..

This global platform is offering so much more in terms of size, variations, fuel economy, AWD and engine choices...

[AC]

Originally Posted by MAD

Is the Falcon really a 'large' car by today's standards?
All the small cars have grown, giving reason for the makers to make new 'micro' models, but the Falcon hasn't really changed all that much. It should be at least two lanes wide by now if it followed growth trends of smaller cars.

As lifted from Wikipedia.

FG Falcon

Length 4,955*mm (195.1*in)
Width 1,868*mm (73.5*in)
Height 1,453*mm (57.2*in)

Current Camry

Length 4,805*mm (189.2*in) & 4,820*mm (189.8*in)
Width 1,820*mm (71.7*in)
Height 1,470*mm (57.9*in)

Mondeo

Length 4,844*mm (190.7*in)
Width 1,886*mm (74.3*in)
Height 1,500*mm (59.1*in)


So is the FG now a mid sized car like the Camry, or is the Camry now a large car.
Mondeo...?

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by small_ford

“Genk is hanging on as a marginal plant,” said Rhys, who said the European market is shrinking for mid-sized sedans like the Mondeo. “Can you justify making a Mondeo at that plant for what’s basically now become a very, very small market?”
...
Sounds familiar? Wouldn't it be a cool idea if Ford could build the next Mondeo alongside the Falcon/Territory.

Lets save FoA by building two cars the public are not buying?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by AC

As lifted from Wikipedia.

FG Falcon

Length 4,955*mm (195.1*in)
Width 1,868*mm (73.5*in)
Height 1,453*mm (57.2*in)

Current Camry

Length 4,805*mm (189.2*in) & 4,820*mm (189.8*in)
Width 1,820*mm (71.7*in)
Height 1,470*mm (57.9*in)

Mondeo

Length 4,844*mm (190.7*in)
Width 1,886*mm (74.3*in)
Height 1,500*mm (59.1*in)


So is the FG now a mid sized car like the Camry, or is the Camry now a large car.
Mondeo...?

I see that and think why bother with the Falcon when the Mondeo is better equipped.

OH NO, WRONG WHEEL DRIVE!

Seriously unless you drive like a moron and do burnouts, no one gives a rats *** if the car drives with its front wheels or rear.

I look at my Falcon and think, there could be a lot more room if it had a flat floor because of no tail shaft and diff.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I see that and think why bother with the Falcon when the Mondeo is better equipped.

OH NO, WRONG WHEEL DRIVE!

Seriously unless you drive like a moron and do burnouts, no one gives a rats *** if the car drives with its front wheels or rear.

The realists among us stopped worrying about that in the 70s but the Govt feels they must look after the 1% of new car buyers who are still buying Aussie RWDs.

[naddis01]

Does our Mondeo come from Genk? What happened to the notion that it was supply constrained and thats why it only sells 500/month like every other medium car (Camry excluded)?