Windows System in Cars

[123Cat]

Is it true that cars are built on the MS Windows System

I heard a story of a VW that had an air suspension failure which locked the security system , which also locked the wheels so it had to be dragged up on a truck and then the system unlocked from Germany , which would take a while,

are the systems that complex

[grandpa_spec_F6]

Each manufacturer has their own proprietary system they use, which is why we pay so much for tuning our cars as each iteration must be 're-cracked' in order to get to the good stuff.

I'm sure some are based off the windows OS... I have a feeling Jeep based theirs off Windows ME

[pottery beige]

I have electric windows.. window goes up window goes down..

[GasoLane]

If cars had a Windows system ACA would be out there headlining that "Motorists have complained of the numbers 404 flashing up on the dash shortly before their windscreen went all Blue"

[supershifty]

Don't want to start a war, but here goes: Just pray they don't use Apple

[sgt_doofey]

I think you'll find that the cars electrical bus' are proprietry. The entertainment, media and GPS systems might be based off of MS software. I seem to remember a post on here about Ford and MS in cohorts with each over something...

Edit: Found it - http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11361978

Originally Posted by supershifty

Don't want to start a war, but here goes: Just pray they don't use Apple

If they did, say goodbye to aftermarket products, except for the cheap Chinese knockoffs

[DJR-351]

A neighbours car has Windows......it crashed about a week ago...

[FGII-XR6]

I know a guy with an apple based car you con only drive it on roads approved by apple

[sgt_doofey]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

I know a guy with an apple based car you con only drive it on roads approved by apple

I hear that the GPS system (aka Apple Maps) is also rubbish!

[JC]

What would happen if a car that was running windows was converted to a convertible?

[AWD Chaser]

Originally Posted by 123Cat

Is it true that cars are built on the MS Windows System

I heard a story of a VW that had an air suspension failure which locked the security system , which also locked the wheels so it had to be dragged up on a truck and then the system unlocked from Germany , which would take a while,

are the systems that complex

If cars were "that" complex, they certainly wouldnt use Windows.

Microsoft has helped developed a hardware based OS for Ford SYNC but thats about it - car ECUs/BCMs are not like a PC with an operating system as such... Think of you cars OS much like the OS for a DVD player - certain inputs and outputs, and lookup tables... no extra stuff in there...

Entertainment systems are a very different story...

Unless you question is: Do the manufacturer production line robots that build cars use a Windows operating system..

[K93George]

Originally Posted by 123Cat

Is it true that cars are built on the MS Windows System

Meaning... Is the software the electronics used in the car running in a Windows OS environment? Like Windows NT? Certainly not. The licensing would be absurd and without exaggerating it would actually take your car longer to start-up!

Think about this proposition. The only supported Windows environment at the moment is Windows NT which is what XP, Vista, 7 and 8 use. Some other Windows products run in this environment as well, like the Xbox 360. It was designed for a graphical user interface (GUI) which is what you see when you use your PC. When you start you computer Windows loads necessary DLLs, drivers and all these other bits and pieces to get it up and running.

Now imagine the ECU of the FG has Windows NT in its latest iteration, NT 6.2 (Build 9200) the same OS that Windows 8 runs on. We first need to meet the requirements for it which aren't going to be low, the ECU would be INCREDIBLY overpowered, the components to build it would most likely cost more then a smartphone today as it would need to be reliable enough not to overheat and shutdown the entire car.

Ok so we have ticked the system requirements box to run NT 6.2 on our FG ECU. Now, what next? We will need to create software for it and drivers for the components of the car that connect to the ECU, so that "Windows" is able to recognise the various sensors and perform the necessary calculations to keep the car running well. For example, this means the MAF sensor that connects back to the ECU needs a piece of software written for it for the ECU to recognise it.

Ok, now we have created all the necessary software to utilise the sensors and components around the car. We should also make it that the ECU starts up as soon as it sensors power, that fixes our slow start-up problem doesn't it?

The first time the ECU is presented with power, it will behind the scenes boot up just like a computer, load all the drivers and DLLs for the components so that once the key is turned its ready to go.

Hmm... At first I thought this was absurd but it is definitely doable. It is certainly going to cost a substantial amount to do. The other issue is that because it is built on Windows NT, the mere nature of the environment means that you could technically run any .exe on the ECU. That meaning malicious software. Lets not forget the legal issues here as well, Ford would need to cut and chop Windows NT down a substantial amount, removing all the unnecessary drivers, such as basic network adaptors and display drivers. Windows NT is not open source, Ford can't just buy licenses and then hack the software to bits to use in ECUs. They would have to pay Microsoft a substantial amount and most likely would require to get deep inside the software revealing more then Microsoft may be willing to show.

Also, Microsoft doesn't make Windows NT for ECUs so no buying a prebuilt generic version for your ECU.

Short version, need Linux :P

[Franco Cozzo]

In the ambulances I help build for Victoria, all their controls for anything electrical inside the ambulance is controlled by touch screens running Windows CE, its all done through CANBUS, computer modules controlling inputs and outputs.



That is the picture from the supplier, different state but exact same thing we use.

It has its problems over running relays and switches, but you have to move forward at some point in time and then improve on it.

[K93George]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

In the ambulances I help build for Victoria, all their controls for anything electrical inside the ambulance is controlled by touch screens running Windows CE, its all done through CANBUS, computer modules controlling inputs and outputs.

It has its problems over running relays and switches, but you have to move forward at some point in time and then improve on it.

That makes sense as its a GUI, Windows is a great GUI. In this case its cheaper to use an already good GUI with minor modifications then to create one from scratch.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by K93George

That makes sense as its a GUI, Windows is a great GUI. In this case its cheaper to use an already good GUI with minor modifications then to create one from scratch.

Main problem we had was the network controllers which route the information from the screens to the computer module to switch on something had a tendency to play up.

Then at one stage they started ordering cheaper screens and they all came back with problems, like not registering pressing buttons.

Our competitor uses plain old switches and a control box filled with relays and some ICs, doesn't fail, but it looks ancient.

[K93George]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Main problem we had was the network controllers which route the information from the screens to the computer module to switch on something had a tendency to play up.

Then at one stage they started ordering cheaper screens and they all came back with problems, like not registering pressing buttons.

Our competitor uses plain old switches and a control box filled with relays and some ICs, doesn't fail, but it looks ancient.

A lot can go wrong in a complex OS environment. The old school box filled with relays and ICs you can visually see a problem. With software obviously you can't just see the problem. It appears at first like a driver issue with the network controllers or some incompatibility with a newer revision of the software?

[MITCHAY]

I think you need to make the distinct difference between entertainment system and the actual computer management in a car.

The entertainment could be pretty much whatever you want it to be these days but you will find that the actual engine management and safety systems are highly proprietary and at a much more low level.