Has the Falcon become too narrowly focussed?

[2011G6E]

Kicking the hornets nest here...but hey, something to think about...

Has the Falcon become too narrow focussed for what is seen as "a big Australian sedan" in the mold of the Falcons of days gone by?

I would say the rot started to set in during the change to BA. They got lower, they got fragile front lips and less ground clearance, they started to get bigger wheels and lower profile tyres on even lower end models, etc.
Remember the "good old days" when every man and his dog in the country had a Falcon...they'd be everywhere. Before the Commodore, it was Kingswoods as well, but even Commodores up until the late 1990's to early 2000's were seen as perfectly capable "country cars. Back then, the ADR's still stated a minimum, a minimum, of 100mm ground clearance between the ground and the lowest part of the vehicle underneath...but Falcons, standard, were much higher than that underneath. Now they seem to use the "minimum" as something to aim for to get the car as low as possible.

One of Fords extremely memorable adverts was for that guy who owned a huge station somewhere in the middle of the continent (Wilpena Pound I believe), and he had always bought Fairlanes, as they handled the rough roads easily, and were comfortable mile eaters on the highway. He did the adverts for years in the 1980's.

Now, I admit there's a wider range of vehicles...especially twin cab utes with canopies (got one, guilty as charged) which are far more suited to outback areas and even coastal and inland areas away from the capital cities.
Our G6E on 19" factory wheels was an amazing, smooth, quiet car...on the few times we ventured down to Brisbane and the Gold Coast at least...however once you started to head north on Highway 1 away from the comfortable south east corner and then back inland on the Capricorn Highway, it was shocking...lots of road noise, rough ride, afraid of bitumen drop offs at the edge of the road and swerving to avoid every pothole. It just wasn't suited to real world roads and country areas, as Falcons and Fairmonts of the past were.

I know plenty of people out here with lease cars that are Falcons...mostly XR6 and XR6T's, a couple of XR8's, and a smattering of FPV's...however they either regret getting one and can't wait for the lease to be up, or they have it as a "weekender" and have a four wheel drive or twin cab for normal everyday use. A few of them have binned the 18 and 19" wheels and fitted smaller 17" wheels with decent sidewalls on the tyres to try and smooth out the ride a bit. It helps, bur every one of them is scarred front and sometimes back from gutters and normal driveways that wouldn't have been a problem for Falcons of over a decade ago.


So, is part of the sales problem with Falcons that they have become too narrow focussed...trying to be a low-slung huge-tyred Euro sedan, when what they actually needed to be was something with a bit of ground clearance and normal wheels with sidewalls, something that faces the reality of the country they are built for, and which they had a long tradition of being the "normal" choice for country people?



Flame suit on...

[FGII-XR6]

You have a valid point there, flappiest actually had a thread on similar lines proposing a country pack

[2011G6E]

It;s just that we've always lived in rural cities and towns, and now live in the bush, and I've noticed the change as the decades roll by...you used to see Falcon sedans and utes everywhere at every servo and produce agency. The better off cockies had Fairlanes.
Now it's all twin cab utes and better off cockies have 200 series Landcruisers, whether they actually need a big four wheel drive or not for going to town (not for farm work...that's always been things like Hilux and 'Cruiser utes).

You just don't see it anymore, sadly. People laugh at things like Smart Cars for being "only any good for the big cities", but it unfortunately seems the Falcon was starting to be targeted more at "the big city folk" as well...

[blackf6]

I understand where your coming from. But in a bid to appeal to more people I think the the car manufacturers have tried to emulate the aftermarket some what. Every Tom Dick and Harry now lowers their car and fits big rims. I cringe every time I take the GT out with the 19inch rims. But hey got the brembo's so no going back to smaller rims. (had 3 flat tires in 2 months also) An airbag system would be good so you can lift up over obstacles but still have the handling when you needed. Which the aftermarket caters for. I recon 55 series tires are the lowest sidewall they should go so you at-least have a bit of cushioning of the rim in a pot hole.

[JACK250]

It probably falls short of the mark on both counts - while I can see why it's not targeted at country drivers alone (the majority of the population are in cities, and increasingly so), the Falcon isn't really suited to city driving. I've moved from a large country town where my FG was great, to inner Melbourne, and I never thought I'd say it but I'm keen for something smaller.

The thing is it's not only big, but the falcon / commodore are pretty impractical for their size; I play double bass, and in the FG I can JUST squeeze it in if there is nothing else in the car, and I can't take a passenger. The other day I fit my bass, my guitarist and his guitar, myself and my girlfriend in her mazda 2.

[atec77]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Kicking the hornets nest here...but hey, something to think about...

Has the Falcon become too narrow focussed for what is seen as "a big Australian sedan" in the mold of the Falcons of days gone by?

I would say the rot started to set in during the change to BA. They got lower, they got fragile front lips and less ground clearance, they started to get bigger wheels and lower profile tyres on even lower end models, etc.
Remember the "good old days" when every man and his dog in the country had a Falcon...they'd be everywhere. Before the Commodore, it was Kingswoods as well, but even Commodores up until the late 1990's to early 2000's were seen as perfectly capable "country cars. Back then, the ADR's still stated a minimum, a minimum, of 100mm ground clearance between the ground and the lowest part of the vehicle underneath...but Falcons, standard, were much higher than that underneath. Now they seem to use the "minimum" as something to aim for to get the car as low as possible.

One of Fords extremely memorable adverts was for that guy who owned a huge station somewhere in the middle of the continent (Wilpena Pound I believe), and he had always bought Fairlanes, as they handled the rough roads easily, and were comfortable mile eaters on the highway. He did the adverts for years in the 1980's.

Now, I admit there's a wider range of vehicles...especially twin cab utes with canopies (got one, guilty as charged) which are far more suited to outback areas and even coastal and inland areas away from the capital cities.
Our G6E on 19" factory wheels was an amazing, smooth, quiet car...on the few times we ventured down to Brisbane and the Gold Coast at least...however once you started to head north on Highway 1 away from the comfortable south east corner and then back inland on the Capricorn Highway, it was shocking...lots of road noise, rough ride, afraid of bitumen drop offs at the edge of the road and swerving to avoid every pothole. It just wasn't suited to real world roads and country areas, as Falcons and Fairmonts of the past were.

I know plenty of people out here with lease cars that are Falcons...mostly XR6 and XR6T's, a couple of XR8's, and a smattering of FPV's...however they either regret getting one and can't wait for the lease to be up, or they have it as a "weekender" and have a four wheel drive or twin cab for normal everyday use. A few of them have binned the 18 and 19" wheels and fitted smaller 17" wheels with decent sidewalls on the tyres to try and smooth out the ride a bit. It helps, bur every one of them is scarred front and sometimes back from gutters and normal driveways that wouldn't have been a problem for Falcons of over a decade ago.


So, is part of the sales problem with Falcons that they have become too narrow focussed...trying to be a low-slung huge-tyred Euro sedan, when what they actually needed to be was something with a bit of ground clearance and normal wheels with sidewalls, something that faces the reality of the country they are built for, and which they had a long tradition of being the "normal" choice for country people?



Flame suit on...

Once the big two hard great presence and because of protectionist government policy's the axiom "build it and they will come was the rule" as there was little else available . Now we have a plethora of choice and rather than being able to mold the market the big two failed to listen and continue to push a not so relevant model , I and many others want a medium sized wagon or sedan with good economy rwd and performance with reasonable ground clearance as even city dwellers drive over gutters , size aint the everything these days imho

[2011G6E]

Good point...we did notice that in Brisbane and on the Gold Coast in some shopping center and hotel parking lots...you were really struggling to squeeze into the parking spaces.

It's sad that what was once a car for everyone is now being targeted at only some people. The very definition of a useless family car is one that isn't built to suit all conditions that a driver could expect. I'm not talking exclusive supercars and limited run specials...I mean just a normal or slightly upmarket Falcon. Do they assume all those city people are only ever going to drive in the city? Why buy a Falcon then? Get something smaller and cheaper to run.

And, sadly, that's what buyers have been doing by the looks of it...

[Brazen]

I think they focused the car and marketed the car too closely at the young single male - who would never really buy the car anyway.

You never see an ad with a Falcon towing, or overtaking or on dirt roads. Instead you see it whizzing around a race track or across a salt plain.

I think they developed a bit of a 'hoon' image when in fact they are really a sensible family car.

And they did get way too low - they tried to emulate the European formula and instead they just sent 70,000 buyers a year to SUVs who prefered it when the Falcon was a bit of an Aussie all rounder. Its also eye-watering watching an older person get out of a Falcon with its low ground clearance and long heavy doors - they definately needed some height again to make ingress and egree easier.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

You have a valid point there, flappiest actually had a thread on similar lines proposing a country pack

Yes and we all know how that ended.

Falcon must only be a fully sick very fast in a straight line (faster than any commodore) large 4 door RWD low to the ground sports saloon with stripes, badges and big shiny wheels capable of holding 5 people and all of their maccas burgers but most importantly be second hand and cheap.

Unfortunately Ford only make new cars............

[FGII-XR6]

true, unfortunately the forum isn't moron proof and good threads go down the gurgler as a consequence

Originally Posted by flappist

Yes and we all know how that ended.

Falcon must only be a fully sick very fast in a straight line (faster than any commodore) large 4 door RWD low to the ground sports saloon with stripes, badges and big shiny wheels capable of holding 5 people and all of their maccas burgers but most importantly be second hand and cheap.

Unfortunately Ford only make new cars............

[Brazen]

You will notice that for a long time Commodore and Falcon closely mirrored sales of the Chevy Silverado and Ford F-series in the US. Expect the pickups still sell exceptionally well and Commodore and Falcon have fallen off the cliff.

The pickups are a good case study in effective marketing - they have stayed true to their image and unique qualities. Ford and Chevy still push the rural American dream (even though the vast majority of pickups are used in suburbia). They also emphasis rugged ability and hauling (even though a smaller percentage of owners tow with their pickups than Commodore and Falcon owners).

You rarely see the pickup manufacturers advertising features, handling and safety even though these aspects have been massively improved. Because the pickup makers stick to a message and not dilute it by talking about things other cars have.

You look at Falcon and Commodore though and they have never stuck to a message and they highlight aspects that any other car has. Ford talking about Falcon's fuel economy will have people think 'well, if I wanted fuel economy wouldnt I just buy a Focus?' or handling 'well if I wanted handling wouldnt I buy a sports car?' or features 'if I wanted features wouldnt I just buy a Kia?'

And thats the problem, Ford highlights Falcon's similarities with any other car on the market but never highlights the differences Falcon has - this is where the Aussie car makers have failed and the US pickup makers have thrived.

A classic case was the FG ad which highlighted iPod connectivity - basically the same thing every other car has on the market including a $12,990 Getz. Tell me what is different about the Falcon, not is what the same.

[Blue Oval Mopar Man]

I dont think its the Design contraints making the Falcons less attractive or less suitable for the landscape , its the fact that there are sooooooooooooo many choices in different vehicles that makes the difference ! I see this as the Fault of the Governments of the last 30 years or so . Changing the Import and manufacturing rules so as to let every to dick and korean car maker dump all sorts of their rubbish on our soil ! Its the endless choice of vehicles and also the lack of support of the Australian product by the the later braindead generations that have realy hurt the industry !

[GQ_Smooth]

I doubt it would have made much difference to sales (they did offer a RTV, and advertised it from all reports it was a brilliant package but not a 4 door version). I suspect that's what they wanted the Territory to do (not having owned one, I'm told their ground clearance isn't great).

[janddbone]

All I can say is yes!

[csv8]

Apologies for bringing up the VF again..but you can order a Country Pack with the VF, raises car by 35mm..not sure how 35mm would make much difference...

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by csv8

Apologies for bringing up the VF again..but you can order a Country Pack with the VF, raises car by 35mm..not sure how 35mm would make much difference...

Thats quite a bit of difference, basically an inch taller.

The VE had better approach angles already, the front of my FG crunches into things my old VE SV6 never had a problem with - and my FG is the base model ute!

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Blue Oval Mopar Man

I dont think its the Design contraints making the Falcons less attractive or less suitable for the landscape , its the fact that there are sooooooooooooo many choices in different vehicles that makes the difference ! I see this as the Fault of the Governments of the last 30 years or so . Changing the Import and manufacturing rules so as to let every to dick and korean car maker dump all sorts of their rubbish on our soil ! Its the endless choice of vehicles and also the lack of support of the Australian product by the the later braindead generations that have realy hurt the industry !

Unfortunately, things like the Button Plan were necessary evils...the car makers here had got lazy...they were used to being strongly protected from the big bad world out there, and made cars accordingly...big and strong but under equipped and not up to world class standards. Now the opposition from overseas isn't "rubbish", it's what we should have been getting all along!

Without competition from overseas makers, the local builders would have just kept plodding along, knowing they were selling to a virtual captive audience that had been fooled into thinking they were getting the best cars in the world, when the few people that did buy foreign knew exactly what the difference was. We wouldn't see the standard of car that the Falcon and Commodore are today if it wasn't for the flood of "crap from overseas"...


I'd totally agree with the statement that they didn't emphasise what it different, they just repeatedly told you what it had, and most of what it had was things you get in the cheapest cars on the market anyway...however even then the Falcon missed out on little touches like auto up and down windows all around and soft-close grab handles and center console lids...that's just kiddie playtime stuff to forget to add to your top of the range model...

[FalconXV]

I attended the meeting Sinead Phipps and David Katic had in August last year. I was absolutely dumbfounded when he said he was only targeting the Falcon at men in their 40's, as everyone under wants a Focus ( I was the exception, apparently). Hopeless.

Flies in the face of V8 Supercars, plenty of kids and younger people support the Falcon, to ignore them is a marketing disaster.

If Ford had a sporty ecoboost model, it might have lured a new generation from the tuner audience for instance, but they were either too myopic or determined to strangle it.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by FalconXV

I attended the meeting Sinead Phipps and David Katic had in August last year. I was absolutely dumbfounded when he said he was only targeting the Falcon at men in their 40's, as everyone under wants a Focus ( I was the exception, apparently). Hopeless.

Flies in the face of V8 Supercars, plenty of kids and younger people support the Falcon, to ignore them is a marketing disaster.

If Ford had a sporty ecoboost model, it might have lured a new generation from the tuner audience for instance, but they were either too myopic or determined to strangle it.

Interestingly Holden will be focusing on women more with the VF Commodore marketing as there is a realisation the mum has a pretty big say in what car she drives nowadays.

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by FalconXV

I attended the meeting Sinead Phipps and David Katic had in August last year. I was absolutely dumbfounded when he said he was only targeting the Falcon at men in their 40's, as everyone under wants a Focus ( I was the exception, apparently). Hopeless.

Flies in the face of V8 Supercars, plenty of kids and younger people support the Falcon, to ignore them is a marketing disaster.

If Ford had a sporty ecoboost model, it might have lured a new generation from the tuner audience for instance, but they were either too myopic or determined to strangle it.

Fifteen years ago, the average age of a new Falcon buyer was 48. I very much doubt this has changed since.

[GQ_Smooth]

Originally Posted by FalconXV

I attended the meeting Sinead Phipps and David Katic had in August last year. I was absolutely dumbfounded when he said he was only targeting the Falcon at men in their 40's, as everyone under wants a Focus ( I was the exception, apparently). Hopeless.

Flies in the face of V8 Supercars, plenty of kids and younger people support the Falcon, to ignore them is a marketing disaster.

If Ford had a sporty ecoboost model, it might have lured a new generation from the tuner audience for instance, but they were either too myopic or determined to strangle it.

That statement concerns me no end!

Wish Geoff was still here. On the surface, not being involved looks like a lot of yes men and women agreeing with each other on their sales strategy (not being there i can be wrong).

[Blue Oval Mopar Man]

Im just saying that the way the Auto Manufacturing industry was handled was the death of the Falcon not the actual design of the Falcon product ! I want a quality product , not a throw away item . They are trying to drive the public into buying a new car every so many years but I will never buy a brand new car , they are Pieces of @#*^ . But thats just my opinion !

[chevypower]

In the days when sedans did everything, it made sense. It kept trying to be too many things to fulfill that purpose. If anything, it wasn't narrowly focussed enough. It should have evolved into a four-door premium sports sedan for the global market to compete with other four-door premium sports sedans. Too many variations just led to an identity crisis. People who wanted ground clearance and payload moved on to better alternatives. There is a market for RWD performance sedans. A product should do one thing really well, not average at a whole bunch of things.

[Ben73]

I also agree that modern large sedans are to low.
I struggle to get my 300 into my own driveway with something in the boot or someone in the back seat.

I have to crawl out on Mc Donalds driveway in Newcastle CBD otherwise the back comes down hard and slams the ground. If someone is in the back or something heavy in the boot Ill have to crawl on an angle to get out.

Speed bumps in the local Bunnings carpark are too big for the car. I have to crawl over the bump otherwise when the front wheel drops off the bump the underbody slams down onto the speedbump.

No wonder small SUVs are popular in cities. You don't have to worry about damaging the under body all the time, they are easier to park than a large sedan and almost have as much interior space.

My next car will be a Duel Cab or SUV

[stang65]

I think the OP has a valid point, the real problem is they got rid of metal bumpers that were forgiving. they were higher up and if you nudged something it didn`t even mark.

But todays cars have plastic bumpers, fair enough modern and lighter, but they are designed very low and a lot of overhang very easy to scrape. Why can`t they have from the top part of the bumper the bumper tapers in so at the bottom there is less over hang not unlike the old cars you had a big shiny bumper and a guard underneath that tapered.

I hope I am explaining it right they could do the same thing but as one piece then people would stop scraping there bumpers.

[Buntz]

Just about every car is a capable unit with lots of space. Commodore and Falcon have become lost in a sea of competition. Some still like a RWD saloon though. Chrysler has just launched here with it's 300C, Infiniti is going to do the same, and Hyundai are looking to follow. Falcon and Commodore couldn't very well stay the relics of old country Australia and remain competitive.

The biggest competitor these days are Utes and SUV's. Big 4WD Utes with heaps of space, storage, comfort, handling, towing, and you can use it for work. The light truck ute has become the new falcon and commodore, a capable all-rounder. Then SUV's, then FWD mid sizers and hatchbacks for city duties. In the face of this, and in the face of an over competitive market, Ford pulled the trigger and killed Falcon, Territory and Manufacturing Operations. Without wanting to integrate Falcon globally, demise was the only other option. However instead of wanting to produce an exportable product here, best to get rid of the troublesome Australian arm of the business for good. They keep making a better product than a cheaper one Dearborn could push on them. So Ford systemically poisoned the Falcon till it would socially acceptable to put it down, and take manufacturing with it. Looking back after this recent decision, I believe the decision was made to end the Falcon when they decided not to put a global V6 in it. But I digress.

So I'm not sure if it was too narrowly focussed. I think the Falcon was just unloved. Unloved by it's parent company, and as a result unloved by the greater public. Add in underwhelming support for the local auto manufacturing by the Government and we have the reason Falcon is no more.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by flappist

Yes and we all know how that ended.

Falcon must only be a fully sick very fast in a straight line (faster than any commodore) large 4 door RWD low to the ground sports saloon with stripes, badges and big shiny wheels capable of holding 5 people and all of their maccas burgers but most importantly be second hand and cheap.

Unfortunately Ford only make new cars............

Never a truer word spoken, although im certain they build second hand cars aswell....

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Brazen

You will notice that for a long time Commodore and Falcon closely mirrored sales of the Chevy Silverado and Ford F-series in the US. Expect the pickups still sell exceptionally well and Commodore and Falcon have fallen off the cliff.

The pickups are a good case study in effective marketing - they have stayed true to their image and unique qualities. Ford and Chevy still push the rural American dream (even though the vast majority of pickups are used in suburbia). They also emphasis rugged ability and hauling (even though a smaller percentage of owners tow with their pickups than Commodore and Falcon owners).

Actually, large car buyers (BOF) moved onto trucks int he USA years ago because
they were big, cheap and offered much more than sedans and station wagons.

That's the difference, FoA nd Holden never effectively transitioned large car buyers into trucks
like the Explorer Sport Trac, a truck in between Ranger and F150 but with IRS.
A vehicle with more interior room than Ranger (Like Territory) but with out being huge like F150.

IMO, the old body on frame Explorer, re done as a nws SUV, Ute and double cab
would have been prefect for our market and fed the growing love affair with 4x4 Double cabs..

[Peter B - CV8]

Originally Posted by stang65

I think the OP has a valid point, the real problem is they got rid of metal bumpers that were forgiving. they were higher up and if you nudged something it didn`t even mark.

But todays cars have plastic bumpers, fair enough modern and lighter, but they are designed very low and a lot of overhang very easy to scrape. Why can`t they have from the top part of the bumper the bumper tapers in so at the bottom there is less over hang not unlike the old cars you had a big shiny bumper and a guard underneath that tapered.

I hope I am explaining it right they could do the same thing but as one piece then people would stop scraping there bumpers.

Modern car front ends have to be "pedestrian friendly" in the event of an altercation between vehicle & human. The overall idea is to stop a pedestrian from going under the vehicle & from getting their legs/hips smashed on a protruding bumper. Much better if they can wash off speed/impact by going across the bonnet/ windscreen /roof & then (gently) settle on the road...

[aussie muscle]

ok a real world example of OP's point. In my BF xr8, i cringe everytime i go over a pot hole bigger than 20 cm (there's a lot). In my old 77 fairlane, i don't really even need to avoid them (although i do if possible) as the car just soaks up the bump. Sure the old 70s plastic dash rattles like a snake, but i don't really 'feel' them like the XR8.