Is N/A Dying?

[CheftonUTD]

*Forgive me, I'm still a relative newbie to automotive mechanics*

Is forced induction (mostly turbo systems) likely to become a 'Standard Feature' in modern cars?

I ask because we've got Fords Ecoboost engine which seems to be well liked by the media. XR6T's appear to be more popular than the V8's for those chasing big power outputs. Looking at other cars online or in the 'non-Ford rides' section of AFF people are getting great power out of small F/I motors.

I love my Falcon, and I love it being N/A, Just wondering if it's soon to become an archaic style?

[WPR1]

I think your right. For economy and lower emisions the trend is to go for smaller engines and use turbo's to boost power such as ecoboost etc.

For performance turbo's and superchargers give easy power gains; a simple tune versus engine modifications.

I think we will see more of this in the next few years.

[UberKnee]

With emissions laws getting tougher and tougher smaller turbo motors are easier to get through.

Factory blown/turbo'd is a quick and easy way to make power as well.

[tranquilized]

I think petrol powered engines in general will become an archaic style eventually.

But in the meantime, yes, forced induction engines will continue to grow in popularity as manufacturers chase ever improving fuel economy demands without sacrificing performance.

When N/A stalwarts like BMW's M division switch to pretty much exclusively turbo power, that says something

[olds]

Turbo' s have a short life and high replacement cost

[xr gr8]

Originally Posted by olds

Turbo' s have a short life and high replacement cost

Not so much nowadays , I think most turbo offerings if well maintained will give very reliable service. It's a simple device that produces huge improvements in efficiency, you'd think every engine would have one.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by olds

Turbo' s have a short life and high replacement cost

What you mean like mobile phones? Or Laptops?

No one keeps a new car for more than 3-5 years anymore.....

[The Monty]

Deffinately. Be it for economy, power or both. I doubt I will ever buy an n/a car again and I used to be one of its biggest advocates.

[Brazen]

I think it depends, the disappointing economy figures Ecoboost Fords are getting in the US means there may still be a market for simple, lower complexity engines. I know some F series buyers who bought the 3.5 Ecoboost have moved back to the 5 litre V8.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by olds

Turbo' s have a short life and high replacement cost

Not quite.

[flooded one]

yep in the future you will see more smaller displacement motors with turbos on them. a few factors (all that I can think of have been mentioned already) will see more of them on the road. thou I think there always will be N/A motor in some form or other. I don't think it will die

[brett7777]

Maybe somewhat archaic, but will still be around and will still get performance enhanced from the aftermarket. Case in point is the escorts I saw on display recently. Have you seen all the aftermarket performance parts that they sell for escorts?
For sure, a n/a with rear wheel drive is almost a thing of the past. Although I think there's some euro's that have them.
As far as front wheel drive, don't some of the Focus and Fiesta come with n/a's? and many Japanese cars?

[mik]

probably is on its way out , blown small high output does allow for smaller packaging of the power unit, lighter weight of tiny engines, more complexity though and more moving parts, nothing beats big effortless N/A torque monsters for the ultimate in reliability quietness and long life.

[Legit290]

Yeah it seems to be heading that way

[mike_nofx]

I like the idea of a turbo as a power upgrade, such as XR6T Vs XR6
But not so much as an equal power/smaller engine option, such as Ecoboost 4T Vs I6.

[brett7777]

Turbo Prius ?

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by brett7777

Turbo Prius ?

They don't need turbo, they're boosted by smug

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by brett7777

Maybe somewhat archaic, but will still be around and will still get performance enhanced from the aftermarket. Case in point is the escorts I saw on display recently. Have you seen all the aftermarket performance parts that they sell for escorts?
For sure, a n/a with rear wheel drive is almost a thing of the past. Although I think there's some euro's that have them.
As far as front wheel drive, don't some of the Focus and Fiesta come with n/a's? and many Japanese cars?

I think though where there's 2 similar engines and the difference is forced induction, aftermarket development will follow the forced induction path. It's already happened with the DOHC I6.

[dieseltrain79]

Originally Posted by olds

Turbo' s have a short life and high replacement cost

My soarer is 1991 , 235,000km , done over 400 1/4 mile passes & over 70 dyno passes . I don't think that's a short life !!!

Shows how good they can be

[Bossxr8]

The next big step is low revs, keeping turbo petrol engines under 4000 rpm. And it will go even further than this in the future to keep emissions and fuel consumption down. BMW are talking this up as the way they will be heading.

One of their engineers even thought sub 3000 rpm might be needed to pass future emissions levels.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The next big step is low revs, keeping turbo petrol engines under 4000 rpm.

Diesels do under 4000 RPM much better, I'd rather diesel engines over petrol engines for all daily driving duties.

But some of the crap which is appearing on diesels is questionable, SCR systems are BS and same with DPFs.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Diesels do under 4000 RPM much better, I'd rather diesel engines over petrol engines.

But some of the crap which is appearing on diesels is questionable, SCR systems are BS and same with DPFs.

I think diesels in passenger cars will be very rare by the end of the decade.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The next big step is low revs, keeping turbo petrol engines under 4000 rpm. And it will go even further than this in the future to keep emissions and fuel consumption down. BMW are talking this up as the way they will be heading.

One of their engineers even thought sub 3000 rpm might be needed to pass future emissions levels.

The BMW 1M runs out of puff over 5500rpm, which is a farcry from just a little while ago when everything M powered could hit 8k

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Diesels do under 4000 RPM much better, I'd rather diesel engines over petrol engines for all daily driving duties.

But some of the crap which is appearing on diesels is questionable, SCR systems are BS and same with DPFs.

What is going to kill diesels in passenger cars is tightening emissions rules on particulate matter: like with what Euro 6 proposes.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Brazen

I think diesels in passenger cars will be very rare by the end of the decade.

Yep.
Its alot easier for a petrol engine to achieve diesel like economy, than for a diesel to achieve petrol like emissions.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

What is going to kill diesels in passenger cars is tightening emissions rules on particulate matter: like with what Euro 6 proposes.

Yep, have a look at the latest Mercedes Sprinters etc, they've got this "blue efficiency" crap, which is code for selective catalyst reduction, they have diesel exhaust fluid which needs to be done each service.

VW has it too, they call it "ad-blue".

Its stuff like this which is ruining diesel engines, I think they're introducing the regulations too soon and engineers are coming up with bandaid solutions to attend to the problem in the small time frame they have.

[Polyal]

I too still prefer na, the boss302r to me is a more impressive engine than the miami.

Im going to be very very interested in the next bathurst 12hr. Hsv's have typically done better in na form than anything from our side (regardless if there was some dodgey's going on). Now they have also gone FI...who will come out ontop?

But for your every day cars its hard to beat what these newer engines can deliver. I cn accept it, doesnt mean I have to like it

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Yep.
Its alot easier for a petrol engine to achieve diesel like economy, than for a diesel to achieve petrol like emissions.

With diesel becoming harder to engineer and costly to implement there is a prediction that sales will swing away from SUVs and back towards large cars which should help Falcon and Commodore in a few years. Without diesel large family SUVs would be not as popular.

Mercedes is saying that diesel will become increasingly for commercial use and so retail buyers will move back towards the traditional petrol sedan and wagon.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

What is going to kill diesels in passenger cars is tightening emissions rules on particulate matter: like with what Euro 6 proposes.

Opel and Mazda are already Euro 6 compliant. Benz Sprinter has it - so that technology will go into Benz cars as well.
PSA working on diesel hybrids.

[brett7777]

Originally Posted by dieseltrain79

My soarer is 1991 , 235,000km , done over 400 1/4 mile passes & over 70 dyno passes . I don't think that's a short life !!!

Shows how good they can be

Soarers are an exceptional car though. Engine problems - no. (dash fade, electric windows n/w, clearcoat peel, aircon n/w, - yes lol, although not all, some seem to escape these faults). Anyway truly great well built motors and great cars.
So they might be a bit of an exception...