New QLD Road Rules

[csv8]

http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Que...oad-rules.aspx

[JC]

Thanks for the link. I reckon this one will cause most accidents:

Roundabouts

Vehicles turning at a roundabout must signal on the approach as well as on entry to the roundabout (Amended Sections 112 and 113).

The actual rule is that you must signal, if practical to do so, on exit from the roundabout if taking the second (or straight ahead) exit. For a left turn or a right turn, normal signalling is required (ie 30m from the intersection, etc etc).

I have seen people get to a roundabout in the RH lane, indicate left, then indicate right - ie they indicate whichever way the wheel is turning at the time - causes *** confusion, especially on 2 lane roundabouts where people in the left lane stop when they think the person on their right is about to turn left into them!

[Keepleft]

THIS is QLD playing catch-up with ARR amendments. Its an ongoing process, year by year.

Lights and warning devices

This rule is about using portable warning triangles for heavy vehicles under Section 227.

A driver of a vehicle with a GVM over 12 tonnes is required to position portable warning triangles between 50m and 150m in front of and behind a disabled vehicle or fallen load. Following a NSW coronial inquest into a fatal crash in 2006, the recommendation included a review of the placement of portable warning triangles in circumstances where the vehicle breaks down on a higher speed road. AUS - doing its bit for the world!

This amendment will provide an increased measure of safety to the driver of a broken down vehicle and other road users by increasing the distance requirement for placing warning triangles on higher speed roads. If the road has a speed limit of 80km/h or more then the distance between the triangles must be between 200m and 250m before and after the broken down vehicle.

I expect this placement measure will be before a UN road safety Working Party, so that it supplements as an amendment, The UN Convention on Road Traffic, stance on the subject matter. AUS - doing its bit for the world!

[FPV+fteT3]

Indicating at roundabouts is IMO wrong. In NSW on say a basic 4 way + roundabout leading up to the roundabout and on entry you signal right...unless you are turning off at the first exit then you signal left... for the 2nd (straight thru) or 3rd (right turn) you signal right first then quickly change to left after entering the roundabout but immediately prior to your exit.

Why not just signal prior to taking your exit I mean the right signal when you enter a roundabout is redundant as thats the way you must go unless your indicating left for the first exit.

Dont get started on the people who change lanes on a roundabout or take them like a chiccane clipping the apex and hitting the exit nicely

[new2ford]

Australia generally has roundabout-use regulations backside-about.

In Europe, the home and origin of roundabouts, you only signal (left in our case) when you're approaching your exit or when you're changing lanes within the roundabout (multi-lane roundabouts - normal lane-changing rule). Why should you signal going round the roundabout? That's the whole purpose of a roundabout - it's a circular main road and all roads leading into it are side roads and require giving way before entering the "main road", that is the circle of the roundabout.

All the bureaucrats implementing roundabout rules in Australia simply don't seem to comprehend the concept and thereby confuse drivers as well. There's no such thing as "turning right", "turning left" or "going straight ahead" in a roundabout. You enter it, go round it and leave it. Simple - or so one would think.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by FPV+fteT3

Indicating at roundabouts is IMO wrong. In NSW on say a basic 4 way + roundabout leading up to the roundabout and on entry you signal right...unless you are turning off at the first exit then you signal left... for the 2nd (straight thru) or 3rd (right turn) you signal right first then quickly change to left after entering the roundabout but immediately prior to your exit.

Why not just signal prior to taking your exit I mean the right signal when you enter a roundabout is redundant as thats the way you must go unless your indicating left for the first exit.

Dont get started on the people who change lanes on a roundabout or take them like a chiccane clipping the apex and hitting the exit nicely

Because when you signal right as you approach the roundabout and you are making a right turn (3rd exit) you notify other users of the roundabout of your intention. This is particularly the case on smaller suburban roundabouts where traffic can see all other approaching traffic. It allows people to judge if they have the ability to enter the roundabout safely with respect to what other people are doing, it aids optimum traffic flow.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Because when you signal right as you approach the roundabout and you are making a right turn (3rd exit) you notify other users of the roundabout of your intention. This is particularly the case on smaller suburban roundabouts where traffic can see all other approaching traffic. It allows people to judge if they have the ability to enter the roundabout safely with respect to what other people are doing, it aids optimum traffic flow.

3rd exit? What if there are several roads entering the roundabout, how do you define a "right turn", or "straight ahead" for that matter? There is no "right turn", simply "entering" and "exiting" the roundabout. The rule is that you give way to traffic already in the roundabout and you don't enter until you establish that somebody is not still going round the circle. The way you do that is wait to see their left-turn indication to exit.

The problem with using the right trafficator is that, especially in small roundabouts, it makes it difficult to quickly switch over to left-indicate which is by far the most important signal. The fact that road authorities make left-indication optional ("where practicable") shows how little they understand about roundabouts.

To me, right indication simply means that you're changing lanes within the roundabout, or that you're the council gardener and you're going to park your ute on the centre-island to cut the grass. That's the only thing "turning right" off a roundabout can possibly mean.

Perhaps I've spent too much time driving in Europe where everybody understands roundabouts.

I won't go into the Australian practice of charging roundabouts where people think it's still "give way to the right" and come in at speed and intimidate with threat of T-boning those at subsequent entries who were there first.

[2011G6E]

A worrying amount of people have the idea that if you are going straight ahead through a roundabout, you approach with your left indicator on and head straight on through...I've even seen a police car do this.

The problem is that if you're sitting there waiting to enter the roundabout, and see a car coming from your right with it's left indicator on, what do you assume he's going to do...? Certainly not "go straight ahead and t-bone me", but that's what would happen.

[Polyal]

Round abouts...

If I am going straight through I dont indicate, if I am turning right I indicate before entering and let it self release when obviously I have stopped turning...

Indicating off? What? Why? By the time I get to switching it Im already off...

And before anyone jumps up when I got my license I am 99.9% sure we were never taught to indicate off (VIC). Ive never had an accident and most certainly never had issues in round about..I dont get what the fuss is about?

[borry]

I am a firm believer of indicating "off" a roundabout.

If you are in the roundabout, and I see you with your left indicator on, its going to aid me entering the roundabout, thus helping traffic flow, instead of thinking you are going to continue around the roundabout when infact your not going to at all.

[Revolver]

Originally Posted by new2ford

3rd exit? What if there are several roads entering the roundabout, how do you define a "right turn", or "straight ahead" for that matter? There is no "right turn", simply "entering" and "exiting" the roundabout. The rule is that you give way to traffic already in the roundabout and you don't enter until you establish that somebody is not still going round the circle. The way you do that is wait to see their left-turn indication to exit.

The problem with using the right trafficator is that, especially in small roundabouts, it makes it difficult to quickly switch over to left-indicate which is by far the most important signal. The fact that road authorities make left-indication optional ("where practicable") shows how little they understand about roundabouts.

To me, right indication simply means that you're changing lanes within the roundabout, or that you're the council gardener and you're going to park your ute on the centre-island to cut the grass. That's the only thing "turning right" off a roundabout can possibly mean.

Perhaps I've spent too much time driving in Europe where everybody understands roundabouts.

I won't go into the Australian practice of charging roundabouts where people think it's still "give way to the right" and come in at speed and intimidate with threat of T-boning those at subsequent entries who were there first.

Man my head hurts. You are seriously over-complicating it. Looking a a "typical" two road, four lane intersection, with two lanes around the roundabout, with 4 entry points (1 for each direction) if we cant call it a "right turn", and cant all it a "third exit" what the hell do you call it then?

Why one earth would you be "changing lanes" in a roundabout? Now THAT would cause some confusion...... That means changing the position of the car mid corner if going around to another exit. Now I dont know about you but changing lines around any corner makes me seriously uncomfortable. Not to mention confusing for a driver wanting to enter the roundabout and continue on his way if you suddenly change your line. NO-ONE would do that unless your a complete moron. So What you said makes no sense at all.

So you have driven in Europe? Im sure a few members here have. We drive on the right hand side, keep to the left, and dont turn right on a stoplight (or left would be our case). Every country has its own road rules and whichever one you live in is the one you have to live with,as do we.

So please dont pretend to not know what we are talking about when we say "3rd exit", or "right turn" when we are talking about a roundabout. Because you do......

And 95% of people do as well. They picture a round about they know very well and use that as a basis for working out which way to indicate.

Not that hard when you break it down.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by borry

I am a firm believer of indicating "off" a roundabout.

If you are in the roundabout, and I see you with your left indicator on, its going to aid me entering the roundabout, thus helping traffic flow, instead of thinking you are going to continue around the roundabout when infact your not going to at all.

I do understand that. But if your giving way to your right, and I am not turning right (because my indicator is not on, im exiting) then you have nothing to worry about?

[Spurious]

It's so simple. The problem is that motorists put their own spin on things & that just leads to confusion. People are sheep, they'll follow the leader & do what they do but when the leader gets it wrong, everyone loses the plot.

When entering a roundabout: (typical 4 way type)

-Before entering, indicate left to exit on the first left.

-If going straight ahead only indicate left when past the first exit.

-Before entering, Indicate right to turn right, then indicate left to exit after the 2'nd or 3'rd exit, depending where your going, ie: 90 degree right turn or full U turn.

If indicating right then exiting left all you do is "push up" that little plastic thing sticking out of the steering column.
If your driving it like it's stolen then you most likely won't have time to do any of the above...SO SLOW THE F@#$ DOWN & give other road users the chance to see your intentions!!!

You'll all jump on me for saying this, but that's ok, it's obvious that it'd all be a lot easier if everyone did the right thing. Not holding my breath though. I relate driving to being on board the TITANIC... every man for himself!

[Polyal]

Whaat?

The is no issue until people start jumping in...leave ample room and you can indicate any which way you like. Worst case you only have to give way to your right?

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Revolver 45

You are seriously over-complicating it.

No I'm simplifying it actually. The Australian traffic authorities have turned it into something like a space shuttle manual. In Europe the rules are simple - about 2 or 3 lines long, as I've described. The whole principle of them is simple, that's their attraction as a traffic control device.

But give something simple to a bureaucrat and what do you get?

Originally Posted by Revolver 45

Why one earth would you be "changing lanes" in a roundabout?

Large roundabouts here often have multiple lanes. Signalling when changing lane is a universal rule, even when you're on a bend. I change lanes often on bends, what's the problem?

[TheSneakiness]

I find those complaining about roundabouts ridiculous. I see it this way... treat a roundabout the same as a intersection, just with a stupidly big landscaped or concrete circle in it.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

I find those complaining about roundabouts ridiculous. I see it this way... treat a roundabout the same as a intersection, just with a stupidly big landscaped or concrete circle in it.

That's pretty right. Given that most people don't signal correctly or not at all here, basically you approach a roundabout with caution. Assume everyone is going round until you see them exit.

[BHDOGS]

but a roundabout isnt an intersection its a continuing piece of road there is no give way to right rule

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

but a roundabout isnt an intersection its a continuing piece of road there is no give way to right rule

That's right but a lot of people don't understand that. Drive defensively and don't assume anything about signals or lack thereof. Just like with any intersection don't assume that if someone is signalling left they will turn left until you actually see them turning. A friend of mine was T boned in a roundabout by a left-signaller who wasn't actually exiting from not observing that simple precaution. Of course when the police turn up he would be in the wrong for not giving way.

You can rely on people's signals in Europe but here it's a minefield. The poor implementation and practice here has undermined the effectiveness of roundabouts just like not keeping left has undermined the effectiveness of motorways.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

but a roundabout isnt an intersection its a continuing piece of road there is no give way to right rule

So you dont give way to the right when entering a round about?

I too am from the school of "there are to many rules and people should think a little harder".

[JC]

Originally Posted by FlivverFord

It's so simple. The problem is that motorists put their own spin on things & that just leads to confusion. People are sheep, they'll follow the leader & do what they do but when the leader gets it wrong, everyone loses the plot.

When entering a roundabout: (typical 4 way type)

-Before entering, indicate left to exit on the first left.

-If going straight ahead only indicate left when past the first exit.

-Before entering, Indicate right to turn right, then indicate left to exit after the 2'nd or 3'rd exit, depending where your going, ie: 90 degree right turn or full U turn.

If indicating right then exiting left all you do is "push up" that little plastic thing sticking out of the steering column.
If your driving it like it's stolen then you most likely won't have time to do any of the above...SO SLOW THE F@#$ DOWN & give other road users the chance to see your intentions!!!

You'll all jump on me for saying this, but that's ok, it's obvious that it'd all be a lot easier if everyone did the right thing. Not holding my breath though. I relate driving to being on board the TITANIC... every man for himself!

Now if a Taswegian can get it right, everyone should be able to! .

[superfly]

Here's a good explanation of what to do at a roundabout.

http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Que...undabouts.aspx

What is new for me is that when going straight ahead, I now have to signal left as I turn off the roundabout. AFAIK this wasn't a requirement previously. All the other rules I was already following.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by superfly

What is new for me is that when going straight ahead, I now have to signal left as I turn off the roundabout. AFAIK this wasn't a requirement previously. All the other rules I was already following.

^^^ ... direct evidence of the confusion authorities have caused over the years by use of the language of "straight ahead", "turn right" etc instead of instilling the notion of entering and exiting a roundabout.

No wonder somebody would be confused at the idea of having to signal left when (to their mind) continuing "straight ahead". It's not "straight ahead". How do you instill that notion? Too late I suspect, a couple of generations of drivers have been led to believe something else through bureaucratic muddle-headedness.

[Streets]

Originally Posted by new2ford

No wonder somebody would be confused at the idea of having to signal left when (to their mind) continuing "straight ahead". It's not "straight ahead". How do you instill that notion? Too late I suspect, a couple of generations of drivers have been led to believe something else through bureaucratic muddle-headedness.

If you and me and others in this thread can get their heads around it (despite being taught to treat it like an intersection, like I was) then there's hope yet. Unfortunately the easiest way to direct someone through a roundabout is to say "go left at the roundabout" or "go straight" or "go right". If driving instructors instead used language like "take the second exit on the roundabout" it would help in teaching their students that a roundabout is a distinct piece of road infrastructure and not just an intersection.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Streets

If driving instructors instead used language like "take the second exit on the roundabout" it would help in teaching their students that a roundabout is a distinct piece of road infrastructure and not just an intersection.

Well put.

The lady with the plumby English voice on the Tom Tom GPS knows exactly what to say. She could replace a ton of road bureaucrats.

[superfly]

Originally Posted by new2ford

^^^ ... direct evidence of the confusion authorities have caused over the years by use of the language of "straight ahead", "turn right" etc instead of instilling the notion of entering and exiting a roundabout.

No wonder somebody would be confused at the idea of having to signal left when (to their mind) continuing "straight ahead". It's not "straight ahead". How do you instill that notion? Too late I suspect, a couple of generations of drivers have been led to believe something else through bureaucratic muddle-headedness.

I wouldn't say that they've caused confusion. They were the rules. The diagrams have always been self explanatory as what the rules were. And the police would not have given you a ticket if you did indicate left to turn off the roundabout. I remember when I did my driving test back in the 80's, I put my blinker on right and then left when I went straight through the roundabout. The market said that what I did was not necessary but did not mark me down for it.

What makes things confusing is when they change the road rules. Unless I read this forum, I doubt I would have even known that the rules had changed. I think that's a much bigger problem.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

but a roundabout isnt an intersection its a continuing piece of road there is no give way to right rule

I agree with the sentiment. indicating right for a third-exit is unnecessary imo. of course that used to be the rule in NSW, but they changed it once again.

[GCRXR6]

Originally Posted by Polyal

So you dont give way to the right when entering a round about?

I too am from the school of "there are to many rules and people should think a little harder".

That's right .. errr .. correct. Whilst entering a roundabout, you give way to vehicles on the roundabout. Which of course, because of the side of the road on which we drive, means you are infact giving way to the correct ... err ... right.

[GCRXR6]

A roundabout should not be seen as an intersection, but rather a shared course. Think of it as a circle track with a multiple of entries and exits. It may be twenty metres in diameter or even one hundred metres in diameter. You may not have our clasic four but may have three, five, six or more entry and exits. You may have three entries and five exits. So much for "Going straight on through. "Crikey .. me head hurts.

Using the right indicator tells aproaching drivers that you are not exiting, but aproaching them, so think about giving way. You can still proceed if there is plenty of time. i.e. There is no need to give way to someone on the opposite side of the roundabout.

We often see backed up traffic at the roundabout on the southern approach to Rocky. It's a large roundabout with three entry/exit roads. on the junction of the Capricoern and Bruce Highways. Drivers coming from Gracemere/West stop to give way to drivers entering from Brisbane/South. The problem is that the southern entry is 100 metres from the western entery. We have a roundabout with a 100 metre section empty of traffic with a nice lineup on the western entry. Likewise, the southern drivers do the same with the northers drivers. A place to avoid at peak hour.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by new2ford

^^^ ... direct evidence of the confusion authorities have caused over the years by use of the language of "straight ahead", "turn right" etc instead of instilling the notion of entering and exiting a roundabout.

No wonder somebody would be confused at the idea of having to signal left when (to their mind) continuing "straight ahead". It's not "straight ahead". How do you instill that notion? Too late I suspect, a couple of generations of drivers have been led to believe something else through bureaucratic muddle-headedness.

get over yourself matey. you, and every other person reading this thread knows exactly what is meant by 'straight through' and 'turn right'!! its all just a silly little game of semantics that you like to play, and let everyone know that you've been to europe.

if you can't work out that having your right indicator on can aid in the flow of traffic, esp when busy, then you need some help.

if you find you need to change lanes on a multi lane round about, then perhaps you should pay better attention and make sure you are in the correct lane on approach to the round about.

this thread is amusing still.