Mazda Enters Speed Camera Debate

[csv8]

"THE boss of Mazda Australia has accused road safety authorities of creating a nation of “distracted drivers” by forcing them to watch their car’s speedometer — rather than the traffic ahead — because they’re scared to go “1km/h over the speed limit”.

Figures show four out of five drivers snapped by speed cameras are fined for exceeding the limit by less than 10km/h.

More than one million fines were issued by speed cameras last year in Victoria alone and state governments are increasingly using the devices to boost their budgets.

“I have to say, having spent six years away, I am amazed how bad the driving standards are in Australia, in terms of focus on not going 1km/h over the speed limit, it’s shocking,” said Mazda Australia boss Martin Benders, who was posted in Germany and Japan before returning to take up his current role a year ago.

“You’ve got police standing up and saying we can’t have distracted drivers and (yet) we have got all these distracted drivers focused on not going 1km/h over the speed limit, it’s shocking,” he repeated.


Driver distraction was an “unintended consequence” of the constant focus on speed, he said.

The comments were made at a Mazda media event in Japan after the company was asked if it planned to make digital speedo displays more widely available on future models, because they are more accurate than the vagueness of analog dials and a needle."
http://www.news.com.au/national/mazd...-1226945569700

[LG17]

...and he's 100% correct!

[CyberWasp]

He sure is.
Also the governments are relying to much on this revenue.
What happens in the future if / when driving becomes automated and there is no driving infringements?

[jmack]

They will just find another way to screw us over. The day they started spending the money before they had it was the day it went from road safety to revenue raising

[prydey]

manufacturers are largely missing out on any credit for the falling road toll, and i think slowly it is starting to turn.

the amount of money and R&D spent on passive and active safety in motor vehicles only for the agenda driven govt's to turn around and give credit to the lower speed tolerances etc, is a real slap in the face to auto manufacturers.

it would be good if someone could find out the statistics of whether or not serious injury has in fact risen as fatalities have dropped. accidents that once would have resulted in a death, people are now surviving but with serious injury. i would hazard a guess that the number of crashes happening on the roads isn't in decline at all, just that the cars are now much safer and the ability to survive certain crashes is now much higher.

if someone published figures that showed the amount of crashes isn't actually in decline, you could argue that the drop in deaths has a great deal to do with car safety and not speed. the harold scruby societies would argue the opposite though, that the lower speed has resulted in lesser crashes.

also, govt's should mandate that technologies become standard on all cars, much like they did with airbags in 1996. that way its not just the richer folk that have access to the better safety features. auto braking, blind spot monitoring, lane departure detection, stability control, auto brake distribution, airbags etc etc.

of course there are those that say the technology is dumbing us down as drivers, but i'm sure that attitude would change if it helped to save the life of a loved one. human nature doesn't/won't change, so technology gets the job of protecting us from ourselves.

[csv8]

Maybe NSW is listening ??? "Roads Minister Duncan Gay today announced the biggest proposed changes to light vehicle registration in NSW in 90 years.

Major changes to car registration including incentives to encourage motorists to choose vehicles with high safety standards have been released today for public feedback.

“Our registration system, which dates back to 1924 is based almost solely on calculating registration fees by vehicle weight,” Minister Gay said.

“Just consider how much the fleet on NSW roads has changed in 90 years, from the early vintage classics to the big bodied muscle cars of the 70’s and the hybrids of recent years.

“Today I’ve released Vehicle Registration Initiatives which proposes incentives for buying safer cars based on the ANCAP safety rating system.

“The proposed changes would also recognise cleaner vehicles, safer motorcycles and would also reduce registration charges for most caravans and light trailers.

“Road crashes cost the NSW community more than $5 billion per year, so initiatives geared at encouraging motorists to choose safer vehicles will help to lower these costs.

“The new pricing system would apply only to new cars and new motorcycles to encourage people out in the market to choose a safer, cleaner model.

“The proposed changes could also have flow on effects for motorcycles, light trailers and caravans.

“Research shows that motorcycles with lower power to weight ratios and fitted with Anti-lock Braking Systems are much safer for riders, so we are considering lower registration charges based on these features.

“It currently costs more to register caravans in NSW than in other state. A new charging system to reduce caravan registration costs would also acknowledge they are generally used much less on NSW roads than regular passenger vehicles.

“I encourage people to provide feedback on the proposed changes until 24 July,” Mr Gay said."
http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/medi...ld-rego-system

[Shonky.]

Awesome to see someone who is a more credible source than the rubbish that is cited by the gov has made comment. I would love to see a wave of no confidence from influential, credible sources debunk some of the disinformation that is being pumped out.

I for one would rather take my chances in needing someone to stop from 70km/hr who is watching the road than someone who is driving at 60, but quite possibly not watching the road.
All the out of context data on stopping distances goes out the window if you have an increase of ten fold on the reaction time as a result of someone's eyes off the road

[Ben73]

What would someone in the car industry know about cars?
People who are chauffeured to and from their office in bumper to bumper traffic know everything about road safety and how to maximise profits from it.

Also just heard on the radio nsw will get 70 new speed cameras over the next year.
I feel safer already

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

He sure is.
Also the governments are relying to much on this revenue.
What happens in the future if / when driving becomes automated and there is no driving infringements?

Never even thought of that! There will be a time when GPS / computers linked to a plethora of sensors will pretty much drive you around in your own car.. you will be mearly a passenger...

I can see it now "getting fined 400 credits for having an illegally hacked car operating system that can get you off the grid at the flick of a switch" lol

[mik]

Motorists have always been an easy target, and speed cameras are a fantastic revenue tool, and aside from big freeway projects you often have to wonder where the money goes......... some of our roads would make gpod roller coaster rides ........ of my 2 different cars on routes I use weekly through melbourne, the roads at low speeds often have my suspension hitting the bump stops.......... and this is not going across a railway line....... this is supposed to be the flat part.

[cro142]

How the original poster suggest such rubbish.

I am a very safe driver because I never exceed the speed limit, as everybody knows that "every K over is a killer".

I am so happy that my government knows how to keep me safe.
I have had it drummed into me over many years that all I have to worry about is not to exceed the speed limit in order to be safe. This means I don't have to worry about developing any other skills, or thinking about any other ways to keep my driving safe.

If this means focussing only on clock watching, then so be it. At least I know I will be safe on the roads.

[noflac52]

Another perspective:

Teach all licence holders to drive correctly (meaning how to handle a vehicle in all conditions at any speed) and the safety stuff in cars will be almost unnecessary along with draconian distracting regulations as crashes will drop in direct proportion to the skill level of the nations road users.

Too easy!

[jmack]

Originally Posted by noflac52

Another perspective:

Teach all licence holders to drive correctly (meaning how to handle a vehicle in all conditions at any speed) and the safety stuff in cars will be almost unnecessary along with draconian distracting regulations as crashes will drop in direct proportion to the skill level of the nations road users.

Too easy!

why should i learn how to drive that is what we have abs,ebd,tc,jf,lld,jhjs and any other combination of letters to do all those jobs for us.most tools on the road only know where the fuel goes,key goes,put it in d for d***head .

[zipping]

I will be looking at what Ricky Muir pursues in Parliament. As a representative of the Motoring Enthusiasts Party hopefully they will be arguing the case for good motoring policies but wont be surprised if its just a front for other agendas.

One of the worst habits that has crept into my driving is the constant checking of the speedo.

BTW rego bill just came $750 they have to be kidding

[cro142]

Yes why should we bother about learning to drive properly when we can totally rely on the gadgets in our cars and the government speed limits?

The message I get from the government is that I don't have to worry about a thing on the roads - as long as I stick to the speed limit nothing can go wrong!!!

Surely our government would not mislead me??

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I can see it now "getting fined 400 credits for having an illegally hacked car operating system that can get you off the grid at the flick of a switch" lol

Did you see my name as the first offender ?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by jmack

why should i learn how to drive that is what we have abs,ebd,tc,jf,lld,jhjs and any other combination of letters to do all those jobs for us.most tools on the road only know where the fuel goes,key goes,put it in d for d***head .

Originally Posted by noflac52

Another perspective:

Teach all licence holders to drive correctly (meaning how to handle a vehicle in all conditions at any speed) and the safety stuff in cars will be almost unnecessary along with draconian distracting regulations as crashes will drop in direct proportion to the skill level of the nations road users.

Too easy!

Originally Posted by cro142

Yes why should we bother about learning to drive properly when we can totally rely on the gadgets in our cars and the government speed limits?

yeah, i guess guys like ayrton senna and peter brock etc didn't know how to drive properly for the conditions? or is it possible that no matter how good you are, or how good you think you are, that mistakes still happen??

its this indestructible mindset that is one of the biggest killers. people who think that crashes/accidents are the result of someone running out of talent and that it would never happen to them.

out of interest, those wanting better testing/teaching, what sort of education have they had, or is it only others that need the better driver education??

[zilo]

I need a Klingon cloaking device designed for warp 9.9

Oh wait...

[dragons90]

The only way to know where the limit of a car is and what to do to correct it is practice, the best way for kids to learn that is in a controlled environment. Me I learnt car control on acreage since I was a kid plus the FPV drive day and other performance driving courses.

Gadgets are fine as a safety net but when there relied on is the problem that ford city stop ad is a good example I don't need to look where I'm going cause the car will stop for me or no need to check my mirrors the light will tell me it's safe.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by csv8

“Today I’ve released Vehicle Registration Initiatives which proposes incentives for buying safer cars based on the ANCAP safety rating system.

That's really dumb. The ANCAP ratings relate only to how well the car protects you after you have an accident - secondary safety. Just as important is the capacity of the vehicle to help prevent a driver to have an accident (through design instability etc) in the first place - primary safety. The moose test plays a role in this.

Wheels tried to address this several years back and tested many vehicles, finding that some, such as the Prado, would lose stability earlier than counterparts. We Territory owners well remember when the Wheels Kluger tipped over, whereas the Territory scored highly. I haven't looked it up lately, but no doubt the Prado and Kluger may have got themselves up to 5 stars by now - most manufacturers aim for that objective for all their vehicles - but what is their primary safety like? Have they been redesigned from ground up, or do they have a few little "anti-roll" gizmos thrown in to pacify the buyer?

Sometimes I wonder how much the road and vehicle authorities actually know about roads and vehicles.

Having lived in Europe a couple of years back, I understand exactly how frustrated the Mazda boss feels. Coming back to drive in Australia nowadays is a simply awful experience. And I don't have to go overseas to feel that - I still remember what it was like driving here 30-40 years ago.

[mik]

Being able to handle a car gets a lot of cred and that is certainly a good thing, but being shown/taught how to avoid using that skill as much as possible is also a good thing, being predictable on the road, communicating with other drivers ,reading the road, basically learning how to stay alive with better driving skills(and driving to conditions) should be more of a criteria imo than just following speed limits and car handling.

[The G6ET Spot]

Originally Posted by csv8

Maybe NSW is listening ??? "Roads Minister Duncan Gay today announced the biggest proposed changes to light vehicle registration in NSW in 90 years.

Major changes to car registration including incentives to encourage motorists to choose vehicles with high safety standards have been released today for public feedback.

“Our registration system, which dates back to 1924 is based almost solely on calculating registration fees by vehicle weight,” Minister Gay said.

“Just consider how much the fleet on NSW roads has changed in 90 years, from the early vintage classics to the big bodied muscle cars of the 70’s and the hybrids of recent years.

“Today I’ve released Vehicle Registration Initiatives which proposes incentives for buying safer cars based on the ANCAP safety rating system.

“The proposed changes would also recognise cleaner vehicles, safer motorcycles and would also reduce registration charges for most caravans and light trailers.

“Road crashes cost the NSW community more than $5 billion per year, so initiatives geared at encouraging motorists to choose safer vehicles will help to lower these costs.

“The new pricing system would apply only to new cars and new motorcycles to encourage people out in the market to choose a safer, cleaner model.

“The proposed changes could also have flow on effects for motorcycles, light trailers and caravans.

“Research shows that motorcycles with lower power to weight ratios and fitted with Anti-lock Braking Systems are much safer for riders, so we are considering lower registration charges based on these features.

“It currently costs more to register caravans in NSW than in other state. A new charging system to reduce caravan registration costs would also acknowledge they are generally used much less on NSW roads than regular passenger vehicles.

“I encourage people to provide feedback on the proposed changes until 24 July,” Mr Gay said."
http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/medi...ld-rego-system

They are looking at this but only for cars that are sold after the system is implemented.
Which is ridiculous as it should be made retrospective to all cars.

It was also interesting that on the same day they announced this they slipped in that they are installing another 200 red light/speed cameras.

Yet another lie from politicians but wouldn't expect anything less

[noflac52]

Originally Posted by prydey

yeah, i guess guys like ayrton senna and peter brock etc didn't know how to drive properly for the conditions? or is it possible that no matter how good you are, or how good you think you are, that mistakes still happen??

its this indestructible mindset that is one of the biggest killers. people who think that crashes/accidents are the result of someone running out of talent and that it would never happen to them.



out of interest, those wanting better testing/teaching, what sort of education have they had, or is it only others that need the better driver education??

You read a lot into my statement that wasn't there. No indestructible mindset here at all. Just the opposite in fact. I make the statement from a position of lots of experience and education and raising my skill levels and keeping them there. I won't go into all the details of my background in motoring on and off the public roads because you will probably just think that I am bragging.

I also didn't state that accidents won't happen to skilled riders and drivers. If you cared to read it properly I said that crashes will drop in direct proportion to the skill level of the nations drivers. I neglected to mention riders the first time but I will add them on now.

I have been riding motor bikes on and off the track for over 40 yrs and to date I have never needed my helmet, even with a plethora of incompetent drivers on the roads. That does not mean that I think that I am indestructible at all. It means that I have the skill levels to avoid all the idiots up to now. Knowing what I am doing has worked for me so imagine if all road users knew what they were doing. Myself and everyone else out there could feel much safer when travelling on our road system. As I said before , Too Easy!

Originally Posted by mik

Being able to handle a car gets a lot of cred and that is certainly a good thing, but being shown/taught how to avoid using that skill as much as possible is also a good thing, being predictable on the road, communicating with other drivers ,reading the road, basically learning how to stay alive with better driving skills(and driving to conditions) should be more of a criteria imo than just following speed limits and car handling.

When I said being able to handle a vehicle in all conditions at any speed it encompasses all of the above. By all conditions I didn't just mean rain and snow etc and I didn't just mean being a good racing driver. Driving on the road needs all of what you say as well as excellent motor skills otherwise you can't be considered competent in normal driving environments. One of the biggest factors in a lack of competence is attitude to others around you.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by noflac52

. If you cared to read it properly I said that crashes will drop in direct proportion to the skill level of the nations drivers.

thats what i read and i still disagree.

[noflac52]

Ok! That's fine with me. So what is your preferred solution?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by noflac52

Ok! That's fine with me. So what is your preferred solution?

stop the focus on speed alone. step up the scrutiny on unroadworthy cars, talking on phones etc etc.

most drivers possess the necessary skills to survive the daily grind. people who drive like they stole it need to be cracked down on as well. its not a race track. if you like to push your car close to the limit of adhesion or beyond, then pay the money and hit a track.

many accidents are because people don't respect the task of driving and are too distracted. they drive still eating breakfast, doing hair, dealing with 'little darlings' in the back etc etc.

if the scrutiny on speed is relaxed and the focus is more on general driving behaviour, then that too should net results.

i would love cars to have some sort of signal blocker so that you had no reception on your mobile device when in a car, although it wouldn't be that simple if you had passengers....

i don't think car control is the problem.

(this isn't aimed at you either noflac52, its a general post)

[noflac52]

I don't disagree with these points at all accept the car control one. People don't generally get taught to drive and control cars in the many circumstances that they find themselves in and learning how to avoid an accident is not addressed at all. So there is definite benefit to be had by teaching better skills.

All of your points can and should be addressed by better driver education and encouragement of better attitudes which will come with higher knowledge about the task at hand.

An environment that encourages people to do something will always get a better outcome than a punitive one like we have at the moment.

I can't think of any facet of our lives that isn't improved by better education and improvement in skill levels and when you talk of vast volumes of people doing it the effects have to be a marked improvement over all. Then there is the flow on effect of the vast majority of drivers passing on a good attitude to the next generation of drivers.

Inattention covers most of what your points are about and this would diminish markedly with better driver education.

Most drivers do have enough skills to survive but not enough to prevent maiming or killing someone else. Eighty percent of motorcycle fatalities are the fault of a car driver hitting the motor cycle.

The percentage of unroadworthy cars causing fatalities is so miniscule that it barely registers in the statistics.

By the way Ayrton Senna didn't make a mistake it was a mechanical failure that killed him.

You don't have to worry about me taking these things personally its just a debate about the thread subject which most posters do well as is the case here.

I have no beef with anyone's different opinion but I draw the line at personal insults which are some posters way of debating a subject.

[T-Pak Addict]

Originally Posted by zipping

One of the worst habits that has crept into my driving is the constant checking of the speedo.

Yeah I know what you mean....
So many speed ranges just on a daily commute its not funny.

Gets so I set cruise on my car to the limit on trips so I just drive on the limit and concentrate on actually driving. Never used to do that when I was younger even if my car had cruise control.

Only problem I have found tho is I set my limit (110kmh here in SA on the country roads) and most people zig zag there speeds... that drives me nuts... People cant even sit on one speed these days on a straight flat road!!!! Even worse on slight hills as mine powers up the hill on cruise (gains 2kmh) and they slow down!!!

[Crazy Dazz]

Really?

ANOTHER "Speed Cameras = Fascist Revenue Raising" thread?

[aussiblue]

Eighty percent of motorcycle fatalities are the fault of a car driver hitting the motor cycle.

That is simply not true. See for example http://arsrpe.acrs.org.au/pdf/Bambac...0Australia.pdf

Of 1,127known cases, 630 were multi-vehicle crashes (56%) and 497 were single-vehicle crashes (44%). Cars were the most frequent partner vehicle in the collision (65%), and the motorcyclist impacting the side of the partner vehicle was the most frequent crash orientation(45% of known cases). In Figure 4, “Two wheeled” refers to motorcycles.
Single-vehicle motorcyclist fatalities predominantly resulted from collisions with fixed objects(89%).

The most frequently impacted fixed objects were trees (31%), utility poles/posts (21%) and roadside barriers (17%).The analysis of liability in fatal motorcycle crashes indicated that while another vehicle was at fault or partially at fault in 49% of multi-vehicle crashes, due to the high number of single-vehicle crashes another vehicle was at fault or partially at fault in only 25% of all crashes.

Of all fatal crashes, the motorcyclist was at fault or partially at fault in 84% of crashes, and of these, the motorcyclist was demonstrating risky riding behaviour in 70% of crashes (excessive speed, alcohol, drugs, disobeying a traffic control law, or any combination). These results indicate that while other vehicles are initiating some fatal motorcycle crashes, a large proportion are occurring as a result of motorcyclist riding behaviour. Of particular note was that of cases with known toxicology, 47% of motorcyclists had consumed alcohol and/or drugs prior to the crash. Other authors have also identified alcohol use and speeding as being associated with increased risk of severe injury amongst motorcyclists (Savolainen and Mannering 2007, Shankar and Mannering 1996). Risky riding behaviour was more likely to have been a contributing causal factor for younger males (less than 35 years old), weekend evening crashes, suburban roads and motorcyclists riding unregistered motorcycles. Males under 35 years involved in fatal crashes on weekend evenings were 4.5 times more likely than other riders to be demonstrating risky riding behaviour, and 81% of such individuals were doing so. Significant changes in rider behaviour are required to reduce a majority of motorcyclist fatalities, and this might be assisted with enforcement and education strategies.

Also see ABS causes of death stats that give similar current figures. http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs@....4?OpenDocument

And no I am not vilifying motorcyclist as discussed previously http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11396459 just correcting a false claim; indeed some might think claiming 80% of motorcycle deaths are caused by car drivers is vilifying car drivers.