Why was fuel in the past better quality?

[ford man xf]

I understand that the old super or leaded fuels contained lead and this increased the octane rating, other than that what made fuels in the past superior compared to todays fuels, all the older guys always say that the fuels of today are poorer quality?

[malazn mafia]

Why were the people, places and things on this planet in the past better quality?

[XR Martin]

Yeah old fuel was better quality just like old cars are safer.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Super was 94 RON I think?

So, compared to regular 91 it wasn't as good.

The lead was a lubricant for valves wasn't it? Did that do anything else like enhance combustion?

[blueluvr]

it was used as an octane booster and also as an exhaust valve/seat anti "microweld" issue which would wear the two mating surfaces. the TEL stopped this happening.

Modern science and metallurgy has negated the use for it. Of course the TEL had to be removed to allow the fitment of catalytic converters.

Old school petrol was not "better" it's just different. Having said that I do notice newer fuel does not last as long sitting in vented fuel tanks (motorcycles) as the old stuff. Maybe the TEL had something to do with that, maybe they have removed some kind of additive they used to use, maybe the flash point of the newer stuff is lower and all the "goodness" evaporates off quicker when in a vented container? I don't have an answer for that but being a bike wrench for 20 odd years I definitely notice it

[ford man xf]

2 tuners (old school carby tuners) have said to me that todays fuel doesn't compare, maybe they are just getting old and their memories have fuzzed out

[XR Martin]

I think they've spent too much time breathing in the fumes.

Despite how 'low quality' modern fuel is, plenty of cars are making 100kw/L, something they never did in the past.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Super was 94 RON I think?

So, compared to regular 91 it wasn't as good.

The lead was a lubricant for valves wasn't it? Did that do anything else like enhance combustion?

No. In the good old days, Super was 98 RON, Standard was 92 RON.

And the lead lubricated the valve seats.

[Bearman]

Old school super fuel was far more chemically stable and had a much better shelf life. It was also easier on the engine with better valve lubrication etc.

Today's fuel is garbage in the sense that it goes off after only a few weeks. My engine builder recommended to only fill up at prominently positioned servos which have high volume sales to ensure I get fresh fuel.

The do gooders decreed lead as evil and must be banished from fuel, instead replaced with an assortment of chemicals that are about 48 times more toxic. Great!!!

[Franco Cozzo]

Was it responsible for carbon monoxide emissions as well? I'm not sure if it was Catalytic converter that cut down hugely on carbon monoxide emissions or the removal of leaded fuel?

I dunno, we learnt about it in year 11 environmental science and that was in 2008, my brain has deteriorated, I've been on AFF for far too long lol.

[ford man xf]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Despite how 'low quality' modern fuel is, plenty of cars are making 100kw/L, something they never did in the past.

Isn't that more to do with advancements in engine management technology/fuel injection? At least with economy it is, power wise I could be totally wrong?

[ford man xf]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Was it responsible for carbon monoxide emissions as well? I'm not sure if it was Catalytic converter that cut down hugely on carbon monoxide emissions or the removal of leaded fuel?

I dunno, we learnt about it in year 11 environmental science and that was in 2008, my brain has deteriorated, I've been on AFF for far too long lol.

Catalyctic converters have done a lot for emissions I believe, anyone who lives in Melbourne and has been to sky high in the Dandenongs (which is a mountain range in Melbournes south east and has observation car park on top with views all the way to Port Phillip bay) would remember in the 80's/90's on some days the smog was so bad you couldn't see the city skyline or the bay on most days, now you can go up there anytime and always have good views, this could also be attributed to the banning of burning off and cars which emit less pollution, but I am sure the introduction of the catalyctic converter played a part, even though us car modders hate them.

[Itsme]

Old fuels were no better than what you have today, if any leaded fuel is more of a health risk long term & created more smog as stated in ford man xf post.
Also remember with the old fuel most was processed here in Oz, not imported like now.
Engine technology changed to suit ULP.

PS: the only thing I miss with leaded fuel is the colour of your exhaust tip as you could tell how well your car was tuned for economy.

[marty351]

When leaded fues were being phased out, eg:shell half lead, no problem using that.(96 RON). When optimax first came out I started using that with valve/lead replacement additive and noticed huge orange deposits on the spark plugs requiring constant cleaning, leading me to wonder what what else was being left in the combustion chamber. After a few years I stopped using additives with no ill affect and just about zero deposits to mention. Leaded fuel raised octane (tetra ethyl lead) and served as a valve seat recession preventative aswell as an upper cylinder lubricant. Modern fuels and modern oils are far better than old school technology.
And as i've mentioned before, you get what you pay for!

[bobthebilda]

40 or 50 years ago, they could pick and chose what oils were bought to the surface, they chose what ones served the purpose best.

We all hear now that they are producing more oil than ever before, but the fact is that true crude oil production has not increased since 2005. Instead they are starting to produce "oils" from whatever they can to keep up with demand. It would be rare that many different types arent blended somewhere along the supply chain. You've got canadians making oil from tar sands, americans getting oil from shale which at times is no better in energy than gas, and we now even have the saudis resorting to producing oil that no other country wants to refine (they had to build a special refinery just for it).

They are basically starting to produce oil from sources that they wouldnt touch many years ago, the dregs of the oil world.

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by Bearman

Old school super fuel was far more chemically stable and had a much better shelf life. It was also easier on the engine with better valve lubrication etc.

Today's fuel is garbage in the sense that it goes off after only a few weeks. My engine builder recommended to only fill up at prominently positioned servos which have high volume sales to ensure I get fresh fuel.

The do gooders decreed lead as evil and must be banished from fuel, instead replaced with an assortment of chemicals that are about 48 times more toxic. Great!!!

How do you tell if fuel has gone off? Started an FG turbo that had been sitting 9 months with a full tank and it still boosted and ran like it had a fresh batch of fuel

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by ford man xf

Catalyctic converters have done a lot for emissions I believe, anyone who lives in Melbourne and has been to sky high in the Dandenongs (which is a mountain range in Melbournes south east and has observation car park on top with views all the way to Port Phillip bay) would remember in the 80's/90's on some days the smog was so bad you couldn't see the city skyline or the bay on most days, now you can go up there anytime and always have good views, this could also be attributed to the banning of burning off and cars which emit less pollution, but I am sure the introduction of the catalyctic converter played a part, even though us car modders hate them.

You can still see the Smog around Melbourne if you go to Sunbury via Riddles Creek, there is a spot where you can see the city and can notice it.

Obviously it isnt as bad as it was back then but you can still see it and notice it.

[Jastel]

Open the tank and smell it...it will be rank and smell more like varnish...not petrol.

Bad fuel is more common in dual fuel LPG cars, it must be used and replaced regularly. When car is running on LPG there is still vacuum on the tank and it sucks the "good stuff" out of it and leaves you with stinky varnish crap.

On a petrol only car when not running the tank is sealed so it wont lose as much goodness. Similar for a sealed jerry can etc.

Excuse my technical terms but it is true.

I reckon there are far more chemical additives in modern petrol than the old stuff

[irish2]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

I think they've spent too much time breathing in the fumes.

Despite how 'low quality' modern fuel is, plenty of cars are making 100kw/L, something they never did in the past.

I think you will find, that if you went to a proper drag strip on a Saturday night, more carby fed cars will run 10's than EFI. Food for thought.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

You can still see the Smog around Melbourne if you go to Sunbury via Riddles Creek, there is a spot where you can see the city and can notice it.

Obviously it isnt as bad as it was back then but you can still see it and notice it.

You are almost not as old as my mobile. How do you even know what smog was in the past?

[1TUFFUTE]

Anybody mention that they're allowed to "water" down fuels by like 3% these days from memory. Perhaps that's raised n lowered over the years giving worse fuel quality!

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by irish2

I think you will find, that if you went to a proper drag strip on a Saturday night, more carby fed cars will run 10's than EFI. Food for thought.

Yep and if you go back 100 years I bet you'll find more drag racing horses then model t fords.

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by irish2

I think you will find, that if you went to a proper drag strip on a Saturday night, more carby fed cars will run 10's than EFI. Food for thought.

about 10 years ago I would of agreed with you. know days its a huge mixture of both Carby and EFI so I really don't know anymore. there are still plenty of Carby fed cars drag racing and I don't think they will go away in a hurry. there still very popular. expect to see more EFI powered cars in the future thou

[blockhead83]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

40 or 50 years ago, they could pick and chose what oils were bought to the surface, they chose what ones served the purpose best.

We all hear now that they are producing more oil than ever before, but the fact is that true crude oil production has not increased since 2005. Instead they are starting to produce "oils" from whatever they can to keep up with demand. It would be rare that many different types arent blended somewhere along the supply chain. You've got canadians making oil from tar sands, americans getting oil from shale which at times is no better in energy than gas, and we now even have the saudis resorting to producing oil that no other country wants to refine (they had to build a special refinery just for it).

They are basically starting to produce oil from sources that they wouldnt touch many years ago, the dregs of the oil world.

Regardless of where the crude oil came from it still has to meet the same spec once it's refined and if anything specs have tightened in regards to quality.

[Xauterus]

Originally Posted by irish2

I think you will find, that if you went to a proper drag strip on a Saturday night, more carby fed cars will run 10's than EFI. Food for thought.

People are using carbs because they are cheaper and simpler to tune. Fuel injection is superior but costs more and is not so DIY friendly.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Jastel

Open the tank and smell it...it will be rank and smell more like varnish...not petrol.

Bad fuel is more common in dual fuel LPG cars, it must be used and replaced regularly. When car is running on LPG there is still vacuum on the tank and it sucks the "good stuff" out of it and leaves you with stinky varnish crap.

On a petrol only car when not running the tank is sealed so it wont lose as much goodness. Similar for a sealed jerry can etc.

Excuse my technical terms but it is true.

I reckon there are far more chemical additives in modern petrol than the old stuff

Chemical Additives? Loss of "Goodness"?
Are we talking about petrol or bottled OJ?

For starters, most of the misinformation about fuel going off is perpetuated by manufacturers of fuel additives sold to stop this happening. (Surprise surprise.)

Basic petrol is a dirty hodgepodge of compounds, from different parts of the refining process, and will vary depending on the crude oil composition and the refinery. Additives are used to meet RON requirements, slow oxidization, scavenge metal salts, etc, etc. High end fuels also tend to have additives designed to keep injectors clean, and limit carbon build-up.

Over time, 4 main things can happen to fuel:
Biological contamination. This is a big problem with Diesel, but can also affect petrol.
Evaporation. The most volatile aromatics will go first.
Reaction. Since petrol is a blend, with additives, over time some reaction can occur between the various compounds, and even with metals.
Oxidation. Continued exposure to air can cause some of the compounds to dry and thicken, becoming gummy. These give rise to the stinky varnish smell, and are woeful for gumming up jets and injectors.

That said, modern fuels are on the whole much better, particularly the antioxidant and detergent additives. Whilst they in turn deteriorate faster than the base petrol, it is still better than untreated fuel.

[bangm001]

We used to be able to get AV-GAS fuel back in the day so a mixture of this made a big difference. Cant get it anymore and huge fines for running it on the street. Maybe thats why they were better??

[irish2]

Originally Posted by Xauterus

People are using carbs because they are cheaper and simpler to tune. Fuel injection is superior but costs more and is not so DIY friendly.

Superior at saving fuel at low revvs mainly. A lot of top sports bikes only went to EFI in the early 2000's. No power gains were made, in fact some even dropped in peak power. They increased the fuel mileage slightly.

[Xauterus]

I agree that peak power is no different from carb to injection. But the power curve is dramatically improved with decent fuel injection. The car becomes much more drivable below peak power.

[Trump]

Motor spirit... look it up.