Welcome to the Australian Ford Forums forum.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and inserts advertising. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features without post based advertising banners. Registration is simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Please Note: All new registrations go through a manual approval queue to keep spammers out. This is checked twice each day so there will be a delay before your registration is activated.

Go Back   Australian Ford Forums > General Topics > The Pub

The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 16-03-2015, 08:54 PM   #1
323Turbo
Regular Member
 
323Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Perth
Posts: 338
Default I'm a financial idiot - what should i do?

ok,
thinking of buying a 2013 xr6t, but i hate loan paperwork & I hate taking $ out of home mortgage redraw

should I just pull the 19k out of mortgage redraw (I owe 400k at, I dont know ~5%) & increase my payments or should I go thru the hassell of a loan 7%?

surely taking it ouf redraw is the smart option or is it?

or i could take $9k out of redraw (i wouldnt miss it) and get a small loan of 11k over 3 years at 7% - interest on that would be stuff all - but I'm not sure if icbf - i hate loan paperwork!!
__________________
XC 351 FAIRMONT HARDTOP
323Turbo is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 16-03-2015, 09:02 PM   #2
Raptor
^^^^^^^^
Donating Member2
 
Raptor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: online - duh
Posts: 9,642
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: For quietly going about moderating in a fair and even manner. 
Default Re: I'm a financial idiot - what should i do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 323Turbo View Post
...thinking of buying a 2013 xr6t...
There's your mistake right there
Thinking of buying a near new car, you can't afford it.

But if you don't like that answer;

Work out what the repayments would be on the 7% loan over at most 5 years, preferably less.
Then redraw it all from the mortgage but increase your repayments by the amount above.

Or conclude you can't afford it.




.
__________________
.
'93 XG Falcon Ute( sold ) : '94 ED Falcon Classic ( sold ) : '04 Territory SX TS ( sold ) : '04 Falcon RTV BAII ute (still in the family)

Last edited by Raptor; 16-03-2015 at 09:10 PM.
Raptor is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 16-03-2015, 09:16 PM   #3
Ross 1
Donating Member
Donating Member3
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Wellington NZ
Posts: 11,492
Default Re: I'm a financial idiot - what should i do?

The way the interest is structured on mortgages you will end up paying more in interest than if you do a 5yr loan. Your best option, if you conclude you want to go ahead is save at least a 30% cash deposit. It puts you in a better bargaining position on the loan rate and can bring the term and interest right down.
Ross 1 is online now   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
4 users like this post:
Old 16-03-2015, 09:23 PM   #4
usernametaken
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 642
Default Re: I'm a financial idiot - what should i do?

Mate, you owe 400k on your house.

That's a lot of money.

How secure is my job - that's the first question I'd be asking myself.
usernametaken is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 16-03-2015, 09:24 PM   #5
sbutler
335 kw of goodness
 
sbutler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: south of Newcastle
Posts: 6,242
Default Re: I'm a financial idiot - what should i do?

Your redraw is without doubt the best way to buy anything. You have a redraw because you have been pumping money into your house. Your house will always appreciate in value, so in effect your house is paying for your car. Just buy the car, & throw some extra cash into your redraw weekly, & you'll be back to scratch in no time
Oh & its your money your using not a finance co..
__________________
CAUTION!
STILL Contain's opinion's & fact's that may offend !!!
:



2012 GTP 213 black what was I thinking? NOW FOR SALE>>
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11439680
sbutler is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 16-03-2015, 09:24 PM   #6
Elks
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Elks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4,523
Default Re: I'm a financial idiot - what should i do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor View Post
Work out what the repayments would be on the 7% loan over at most 5 years, preferably less.
Then redraw it all from the mortgage but increase your repayments by the amount above.
.
There is your answer right there. It takes some dicipline, but if you can't do that you should sit on your hands.

There is real advantage to owning the vehicle unencombered is you can sell it at anytime.

The worst thing you can do is pretend you own it until you have paid off the extra $19k. Because if you don't you will have paid about double that over 30 years.
__________________
Oooh baby living in Miami....
Elks is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 16-03-2015, 09:32 PM   #7
323Turbo
Regular Member
 
323Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Perth
Posts: 338
Default Re: I'm a financial idiot - what should i do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross 1 View Post
The way the interest is structured on mortgages you will end up paying more in interest than if you do a 5yr loan. Your best option, if you conclude you want to go ahead is save at least a 30% cash deposit. It puts you in a better bargaining position on the loan rate and can bring the term and interest right down.
why would i want to save a cash deposit when all my spare cash goes into redraw (currently at $80k-not heaps but the house is worth 900)

anyway, the 2013xr6t is 26k - nearly halved in value in 2 years, i have 8k to put towards it (cash sale of my 2nd car), so i need to find 18k

thanks Ross, you hit the nail on the head, just need to work out what to increase my mortgage payments by to cover it (bit I'm not sure on)

see, i told you i was a financial idiot
__________________
XC 351 FAIRMONT HARDTOP
323Turbo is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 16-03-2015, 09:34 PM   #8
323Turbo
Regular Member
 
323Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Perth
Posts: 338
Default Re: I'm a financial idiot - what should i do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by usernametaken View Post
Mate, you owe 400k on your house.

That's a lot of money.

How secure is my job - that's the first question I'd be asking myself.
its worth 900 so i think im ok
__________________
XC 351 FAIRMONT HARDTOP
323Turbo is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 16-03-2015, 09:35 PM   #9
Smoke Pursuit
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 22,928
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: DASH/bfiipursuit has been alot of help over the years I have frequented this forum, lots of thoughtful and informed posts, very much a valued contributor. 
Default Re: I'm a financial idiot - what should i do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor View Post
There's your mistake right there
Thinking of buying a near new car, you can't afford it.

But if you don't like that answer;

Work out what the repayments would be on the 7% loan over at most 5 years, preferably less.
Then redraw it all from the mortgage but increase your repayments by the amount above.

Or conclude you can't afford it.




.
Where does he say he can't afford it?? Lol
__________________
2022 RAM Laramie 5.7
2023.50 Ranger Wildtrak 3.0 V6 Premium Pack
2024 Everest Sport 3.0 V6 Touring Pack
2025 Mustang Darkhorse 6M Blue Ember + Appearance pack ETA April 25.
Smoke Pursuit is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 16-03-2015, 09:37 PM   #10
usernametaken
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 642
Default Re: I'm a financial idiot - what should i do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 323Turbo View Post
its worth 900 so i think im ok

Get a Lambo then.

;-)
usernametaken is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
5 users like this post:
Old 16-03-2015, 09:38 PM   #11
323Turbo
Regular Member
 
323Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Perth
Posts: 338
Default Re: I'm a financial idiot - what should i do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elks View Post
There is your answer right there. It takes some dicipline, but if you can't do that you should sit on your hands.

There is real advantage to owning the vehicle unencombered is you can sell it at anytime.

The worst thing you can do is pretend you own it until you have paid off the extra $19k. Because if you don't you will have paid about double that over 30 years.
i need to get my head around some mortgage calculators and try to work this out.

thanks
__________________
XC 351 FAIRMONT HARDTOP
323Turbo is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 16-03-2015, 09:40 PM   #12
323Turbo
Regular Member
 
323Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Perth
Posts: 338
Default Re: I'm a financial idiot - what should i do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by usernametaken View Post
Get a Lambo then.

;-)
luckily my wife is the sensible one, otherwise i would love a f355 LOL
__________________
XC 351 FAIRMONT HARDTOP
323Turbo is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Old 16-03-2015, 09:44 PM   #13
Smoke Pursuit
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 22,928
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: DASH/bfiipursuit has been alot of help over the years I have frequented this forum, lots of thoughtful and informed posts, very much a valued contributor. 
Default Re: I'm a financial idiot - what should i do?

$19k at 5% on the mortgage is aprox $80 per month interest. If you go the mortgage Route just be disciplined and pay it off over like 2 years.
__________________
2022 RAM Laramie 5.7
2023.50 Ranger Wildtrak 3.0 V6 Premium Pack
2024 Everest Sport 3.0 V6 Touring Pack
2025 Mustang Darkhorse 6M Blue Ember + Appearance pack ETA April 25.
Smoke Pursuit is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 16-03-2015, 09:45 PM   #14
Yellow_Festiva
Where to next??
 
Yellow_Festiva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,893
Default Re: I'm a financial idiot - what should i do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbutler View Post
Your redraw is without doubt the best way to buy anything. You have a redraw because you have been pumping money into your house. Your house will always appreciate in value, so in effect your house is paying for your car. Just buy the car, & throw some extra cash into your redraw weekly, & you'll be back to scratch in no time
Oh & its your money your using not a finance co..
What I would say to the letter.

All my spare cash goes into my loan - I never have more than $10 in my account.

Times comes to buy something big like a car - redraw. It is my own money that I put in there in the first place after all. And at an attractive interest rate at generally well below 5%.
__________________
___________________________

I've been around the world a couple of times or maybe more.......
Yellow_Festiva is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 16-03-2015, 09:48 PM   #15
ford man xf
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,674
Default Re: I'm a financial idiot - what should i do?

323Turbo I don't think your a financial idiot, considering you have made all those extra repayments on your mortage that's a smart move.

I have redraw funds available on my mortage as well, but I would only ever use it as a last resort on something, its just not worth using it as it's only going to add more woes to your mortage especially in the long run.

Maybe try and save as much as you can for a year and then see where you are at, you might even change your mind on what car you want in that process.
Don't get yourself further in debt than you have too. A house is the only thing you should ever have take a loan out for...
__________________
Quote:
It's pretty amusing though, considering the XR8 next year will be reborn with the same spec engine as the FG GT, could you imagine being a HSV owner forking out all that money on a brand new GTS, then pulling up to the lights next to a FH XR8 and then sitting side by side all the way to 100 and beyond
Even more embarrasing would be the lower spec variants of the VF in HSV's stable getting whopped by a factory XR8.
ford man xf is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
5 users like this post:
Old 16-03-2015, 09:52 PM   #16
usernametaken
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 642
Default Re: I'm a financial idiot - what should i do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbutler View Post
Your house will always appreciate in value..
I get scared when I read posts like this...
usernametaken is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 16-03-2015, 10:17 PM   #17
323Turbo
Regular Member
 
323Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Perth
Posts: 338
Default Re: I'm a financial idiot - what should i do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ford man xf View Post
323Turbo I don't think your a financial idiot, considering you have made all those extra repayments on your mortage that's a smart move.

I have redraw funds available on my mortage as well, but I would only ever use it as a last resort on something, its just not worth using it as it's only going to add more woes to your mortage especially in the long run.

Maybe try and save as much as you can for a year and then see where you are at, you might even change your mind on what car you want in that process.
Don't get yourself further in debt than you have too. A house is the only thing you should ever have take a loan out for...
i am though, i dont really understand it all properly.
yes i have tried to save as much as i could for years & years, but i benefited from the perth property boom from 2005, but thats it - never won lotto or had any windfalls given to me (well i sold my AMP shares the day after they listed & that paid for a $5k shed lol)


yes, i'm like you i want to keep the redraw in the bank, but i dont want to wait for a year for a fun car

such a dilema my car obsession, i think i have an illness...
__________________
XC 351 FAIRMONT HARDTOP
323Turbo is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 16-03-2015, 10:18 PM   #18
Yellow_Festiva
Where to next??
 
Yellow_Festiva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,893
Default Re: I'm a financial idiot - what should i do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 323Turbo View Post
i need to get my head around some mortgage calculators and try to work this out.

thanks
There is really nothing to work out.

* Redraw gives you more buying freedom.
* It gives you a great rate that often can't be matched.
* It gives you greater buying power.
* It allows your car to be purchased outright.
* If you are buying with your own redraw than you are essentially spending you own savings - that just happen to be in your loan.
* You won't need to apply for extra credit.
* You won't need to pay extra monthly fees.

etc etc etc etc.

The only issue is if you drag out the repayments... which hopefully you won't.
__________________
___________________________

I've been around the world a couple of times or maybe more.......
Yellow_Festiva is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Old 16-03-2015, 10:24 PM   #19
323Turbo
Regular Member
 
323Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Perth
Posts: 338
Default Re: I'm a financial idiot - what should i do?

thats the crux of it, at what point will I be dragging out the repayment/paying more than i should.
this is where i need to find a idiots redraw/loan calculator :-)

cheers
__________________
XC 351 FAIRMONT HARDTOP
323Turbo is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 16-03-2015, 10:27 PM   #20
mr_xlr8
GT-P Whitey
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 610
Default Re: I'm a financial idiot - what should i do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva View Post
There is really nothing to work out.

* Redraw gives you more buying freedom.
* It gives you a great rate that often can't be matched.
* It gives you greater buying power.
* It allows your car to be purchased outright.
* If you are buying with your own redraw than you are essentially spending you own savings - that just happen to be in your loan.
* You won't need to apply for extra credit.
* You won't need to pay extra monthly fees.

etc etc etc etc.

The only issue is if you drag out the repayments... which hopefully you won't.
there sure is a bunch of ******* on here...mate if your not keen on paperwork etc then i suggest a broker, a good one is a blessing to know.
, try your local smartline franchisee, this will get it sorted via mortgage or redraw they can do you a better rate than any caryard.
XR6T is alot of fun and if your hearts set on one then why not go and do something for yourself, good luck.
__________________
On the 7th day, god created a FG MKI GT-P 5.0L S/C - Silhouette Gold Decals...

Current ride:
FG MKI 5.0L S/C 6SP Auto = 9.5/10

Previous Rides:
FG MKII GT-P 5.0L S/C 6SP MANUAL = 9/10
AU III 5 SPEED BLUEPRINT XR8 220KW= 8/10
BA XR8 BOSS 260 BLUEPRINT = 3/10
EB FAIRMONT WINDSOR 302 BURGUNDY = 6/10
mr_xlr8 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 16-03-2015, 10:31 PM   #21
Yellow_Festiva
Where to next??
 
Yellow_Festiva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,893
Default Re: I'm a financial idiot - what should i do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 323Turbo View Post
thats the crux of it, at what point will I be dragging out the repayment/paying more than i should.
this is where i need to find a idiots redraw/loan calculator :-)

cheers
Again - if you're toying with the idea if a car loan at 7% as per your original post than paying 5% means your actual repayments will be lower anyway.

If you want, use the calculator to work out the difference in your repayments after you redraw.

Smoke Persuit gave some rough numbers further up. If you're on a variable loan you can call your bank and negotiate a lower rate - even the 'Big 4' will do between 4.6 and 4.8% if you push.

Then, just work out what extra you will pay with the lower balance in your loan and divide it by weeks / months whatever.

How much you want to expose yourself financially is a personal decision.
__________________
___________________________

I've been around the world a couple of times or maybe more.......
Yellow_Festiva is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 16-03-2015, 10:34 PM   #22
Yellow_Festiva
Where to next??
 
Yellow_Festiva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,893
Default Re: I'm a financial idiot - what should i do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_xlr8 View Post
there sure is a bunch of ******* on here...mate if your not keen on paperwork etc then i suggest a broker, a good one is a blessing to know.
, try your local smartline franchisee, this will get it sorted via mortgage or redraw they can do you a better rate than any caryard.
XR6T is alot of fun and if your hearts set on one then why not go and do something for yourself, good luck.
You having a dig at me?
__________________
___________________________

I've been around the world a couple of times or maybe more.......
Yellow_Festiva is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 16-03-2015, 10:35 PM   #23
greens_tuf
Regular Member
 
greens_tuf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 259
Default Re: I'm a financial idiot - what should i do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by usernametaken View Post
Mate, you owe 400k on your house.

That's a lot of money.

How secure is my job - that's the first question I'd be asking myself.
Is it really? What does 400K buy you these days? It don't even buy you 200K...
I would say that most people/couples under 35 would be looking at a loan of that size if they want to buy a house (in Sydney).
I'm in the same situation, although I need to buy a family car not a toy.
I would use the redraw and pay it back as soon as possible (although that advice is NOT based on calculations, just opinion)
greens_tuf is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 16-03-2015, 10:38 PM   #24
ford man xf
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,674
Default Re: I'm a financial idiot - what should i do?

Send a PM to Peter, his username is Peter B - CV8
He's in the loan industry and has given me some excellent advice on home loans, I'm sure he won't mind answering a couple of questions in relation to your dilemma.
__________________
Quote:
It's pretty amusing though, considering the XR8 next year will be reborn with the same spec engine as the FG GT, could you imagine being a HSV owner forking out all that money on a brand new GTS, then pulling up to the lights next to a FH XR8 and then sitting side by side all the way to 100 and beyond
Even more embarrasing would be the lower spec variants of the VF in HSV's stable getting whopped by a factory XR8.
ford man xf is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 16-03-2015, 10:46 PM   #25
Franco Cozzo
Thailand Specials
 
Franco Cozzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,815
Default Re: I'm a financial idiot - what should i do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva View Post
You having a dig at me?
u 'avin a giggle m8?

Franco Cozzo is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 16-03-2015, 10:55 PM   #26
My32Doors
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Top End
Posts: 456
Default Re: I'm a financial idiot - what should i do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 323Turbo View Post
ok,
thinking of buying a 2013 xr6t, but i hate loan paperwork & I hate taking $ out of home mortgage redraw

should I just pull the 19k out of mortgage redraw (I owe 400k at, I dont know ~5%) & increase my payments or should I go thru the hassell of a loan 7%?

surely taking it ouf redraw is the smart option or is it?

or i could take $9k out of redraw (i wouldnt miss it) and get a small loan of 11k over 3 years at 7% - interest on that would be stuff all - but I'm not sure if icbf - i hate loan paperwork!!
Does your car not do the job required? Do you own it? If not, then forget about a used XR6 turbo and buy a new car when you can pay without borrowing. Banks love redraws!
My32Doors is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 16-03-2015, 11:00 PM   #27
Smoke Pursuit
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 22,928
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: DASH/bfiipursuit has been alot of help over the years I have frequented this forum, lots of thoughtful and informed posts, very much a valued contributor. 
Default Re: I'm a financial idiot - what should i do?

What's with all the ****** advice in here... People finance cars daily, wgaf?
__________________
2022 RAM Laramie 5.7
2023.50 Ranger Wildtrak 3.0 V6 Premium Pack
2024 Everest Sport 3.0 V6 Touring Pack
2025 Mustang Darkhorse 6M Blue Ember + Appearance pack ETA April 25.
Smoke Pursuit is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
5 users like this post:
Old 16-03-2015, 11:02 PM   #28
Ben73
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Ben73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NSW
Posts: 4,344
Default Re: I'm a financial idiot - what should i do?

I think redraw is the way to go, as long as you pay back the amount you redraw in a few years max. No point redrawing for a car, then paying your base mortgage repayments, then you are basically paying off a car over 20 years or whatever.

When saving for my overseas holiday, I pumped all my holiday savings onto my mortgage and redrawed when I needed to pay for the holiday. Seamed better using that several thousand dollars to reduce my mortgage interest for a year than sitting in a savings account accumulating 3.2% interest a year or whatever it is.
Ben73 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 16-03-2015, 11:03 PM   #29
My32Doors
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Top End
Posts: 456
Default Re: I'm a financial idiot - what should i do?

Obviously you!!
My32Doors is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 16-03-2015, 11:04 PM   #30
Yellow_Festiva
Where to next??
 
Yellow_Festiva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,893
Default Re: I'm a financial idiot - what should i do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit View Post
What's with all the ****** advice in here... People finance cars daily, wgaf?
I had something similar then just pressed back on the browser...
__________________
___________________________

I've been around the world a couple of times or maybe more.......
Yellow_Festiva is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Reply


Forum Jump


All times are GMT +11. The time now is 06:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Other than what is legally copyrighted by the respective owners, this site is copyright www.fordforums.com.au
Positive SSL