New engine dodgey engine number????

[muso]

I had this Ecotec V6 engine (yes I know it's a Ford forum ) installed in my car (won't say where) the engine is fine and runs well and is supposed to be (according to the paper work) from a VY with low km's and side damage.
But when I had a look at the engine number it appears to be either unreadable or removed! I couldn't view the actual engine before they installed it because it was at a storage warehouse but was given a receipt quoting the engine number. The receipt shows a late model VY engine number but on the block appears nothing........dodgey or just dirty and needs a clean.
The number on my old engine is deeply stamped into the engine block in a dot matrix form (see photo)
It has a warranty period, should I query it? Is there a way of cleaning it so I can see for sure? I've already tried wet rub paper but it doesn't do much, the fresh scratches were done by me trying to clean it with a screw driver initially.
The engine runs just fine but without being able to read the number on the engine block I can't tell if it's from a VY or VT or even VS.
Has this engine's block number been deliberately removed?

'

[pottery beige]

storage warehouse / sitting out in the rain

[muso]

Fair enough I thought that would probably be why. They are a pretty good mob who supplied and installed it to.

So how do I clean it so I can read it? I just want to be able to verify that I have the engine I paid for.

The dot matrix stamping is quite deep and prominent on my old engine so it should be readable even if it's rusty shouldn't it?
I sanded it back with wet rub emery paper p400 and there appears to be no dots there at all, it's just flat and smooth.

[11ford11]

if you have your doubts now what do you think the guy doing your next rego check is going to say or the policeman that wants to find something to hassle you with - take it to motor registry or a mechanic that does rego inspections and have it checked in case the last ten guys to buy an engine from these people have the same paper work you have with the same numbers

[foxtrot3]

Hi. Is that the only place that holden stamped the engine number onto the block. You may find engines with a different build date are stamped in another location. Cheers MD

[muso]

Originally Posted by foxtrot3

Hi. Is that the only place that holden stamped the engine number onto the block. You may find engines with a different build date are stamped in another location. Cheers MD

I believe so, I'm not aware of any other eng# locations on these ecotecs.

[blackf6]

Go and see the installer and tell him the engine number can't be read. And how am I supposed to get a roadworthy. Or maybe try rust converter. Or allubrite to clean the area. I would be asking the installer to show you the engine number on the block.

[muso]

Originally Posted by 11ford11

if you have your doubts now what do you think the guy doing your next rego check is going to say or the policeman that wants to find something to hassle you with - take it to motor registry or a mechanic that does rego inspections and have it checked in case the last ten guys to buy an engine from these people have the same paper work you have with the same numbers

Good idea, I technically have to change the engine# for the rego anyway, but they may just view the engine# on the paper work only.

[muso]

Originally Posted by DeJaVu GT

Go and see the installer and tell him the engine number can't be read. And how am I supposed to get a roadworthy. Or maybe try rust converter. Or allubrite to clean the area. I would be asking the installer to show you the engine number on the block.

He has the engine# written on the paper work and we don't have roadworthy certs here in SA. I would have thought that the p400 wet rub would have been enough to clean it off so that it's at least remotely legible, but I have sanded it smooth and there is nothing there........unless the stamp dot matrix holes are full of rust.

As I said I'd really like to be sure that I've got the engine I paid for!

[XD 351 Ute]

From those pics, I'd suggest it has been ground off, sorry to say.

Ed

[muso]

So why would he do that? To disguise the fact that it's an older engine such as a VS or VT when I've paid for a VY engine (different prefix VH for VS and VT and VA for VX and VY)? Or i could have a stolen engine in my car
So what can I do about it? Go back and see him and ask why the engine number has been ground off?

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by muso

So what can I do about it? Go back and see him and ask why the engine number has been ground off?

I wouldn't quite put it like that, just ask him nicely where the engine number is.

Regardless of the roadworthy situation, perhaps the next owner will want to see the engine number before he buys it.

[muso]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

I wouldn't quite put it like that, just ask him nicely where the engine number is.

Regardless of the roadworthy situation, perhaps the next owner will want to see the engine number before he buys it.

Good point, I would adopt a more diplomatic approach And yes, if I ever go to sell the car the prospective buyer may wish to view the engine# especially since the same engine was used from 1995 until 2004.

[muso]

So what would be the main motive for deliberately grinding off an engine number?

[11ford11]

Originally Posted by muso

So what would be the main motive for deliberately grinding off an engine number?

only reason I can think of would be stolen-but there may be a simpler reason ,who knows.............try the local holden dealer for some guidelines eg. number location,
sensor locations,different component locations on the engine you should have got etc.

[ratter]

did you purchase the engine your self and get a mechanic to fit it? or did you get the mechanic to supply and fit?

[muso]

They supplied and fit the engine complete with warranty, it's a vehicle recycler.

[muso]

Originally Posted by 11ford11

only reason I can think of would be stolen-but there may be a simpler reason ,who knows.............try the local holden dealer for some guidelines eg. number location,
sensor locations,different component locations on the engine you should have got etc.

Hopefully someone at Holden will know what else to look for to see what engine I actually got, but an engine number will have to be stamped onto the block, can't have an engine with no block number!
I'll do some googling and check Holden site/forums for sensor locations etc or whatever else to establish it's from a VY.

I shouldn't be having to do any of this, I paid for a Vy engine so that's what I should have got! And without an engine number I think the cops can defect it.

[castellan]

The eng block will have a casting date on it.
Any paper work you got must have the eng number on it, if it does not go to the cops about it.

[danzvtil]

Youre driving around with a stolen engine. I would go back to the mech (it may not be them who ground off the number) and suggest they replace it with an engine that is traceable. You run the very good chance of the police seizing the engine if they find out. Let them know if they don't take steps to rectify the situation that the cops will be paying THEM a visit, and possibly their dodgy spare parts supply chain.

[muso]

I have a sick wife who needs to be driven to appointments and can't afford to have my car seized because my other car XR6T is off the road.

[muso]

Originally Posted by castellan

The eng block will have a casting date on it.
Any paper work you got must have the eng number on it, if it does not go to the cops about it.

The casting date is part of the engine number (which is missing). There is an engine number on the receipt for the work.

[ratter]

you need to take it back asap, you need an engine number on it, not sure about your state but in Vic you need to take the car to vicroads to notify them of an engine number change and they will normally view it to confirm it is correct. You need to sort it now rather than waiting until you have an issue which will come out of your pocket

[muso]

Will do Monday Morning Ratter, I'm not sure how to approach the supply and fit mob who did it, I was going to go to the cops but they may seize the car and not a having a second car (See other thread) and a sick wife i could end up with no vehicle at all again!

I might just take it to Holden dealership and ask them where the engine number is so I can change it for rego. I'm not sure which course of action to take, the engine has a 30 day warranty.It may not be them but their supplier who ground the eng# off, could even be an interstate supplier, I will have to be diplomatic either way due to the seriousness of the allegations. I paid $1300 all up for the engine inc. install - I bought it in good faith and should be able to do so without it being either stolen or/and an old VS engine instead of a VY engine!

[351@GT]

Take it back, ask them to identify the engine number on the block so you are sure for rego, if they cannot, ask that they change the engine.

options there after all going to be legal avenues.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by 351@GT

Take it back, ask them to identify the engine number on the block so you are sure for rego, if they cannot, ask that they change the engine.

options there after all going to be legal avenues.

Just do this. Don't go in there all guns blazing just yet. Don't mention involving the police either at this point in time.

There may be a very legitimate reason for what has happened.

Is the mob you used a well known outfit? Have they been around for a while? Do you know other people they have done work for and are happy?

Start this tomorrow... How did you pay? You say you have a receipt so I take it this wasn't a 'cash job'. $1300 sounds very cheap (but it has been a while since I have paid for an engine swap). Is that the going rate for this sort of work?

What are the differences between a VS engine and a VY engine?

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by muso

It may not be them but their supplier who ground the eng# off, could even be an interstate supplier, I will have to be diplomatic either way due to the seriousness of the allegations. I paid $1300 all up for the engine inc. install - I bought it in good faith and should be able to do so without it being either stolen or/and an old VS engine instead of a VY engine!

Doesn't matter. What fitter would knowingly fit an engine they / you can't identify?

[aussiblue]

http://autotoolrental.com.au/images/...88AU_1-220.png

Perhaps the got it from what they considered was a reliable supplier and didn't even look (or looked too late and hoped nobody would notice).

[muso]

$1300 is about the going rate for a changeover engine remember it's an ecotec they are very cheap and common that's why I bought it, I got other quotes around for changeovers and it was about the same, but reconditioned was much more well over $2,000.

They are a well known mob and have been there for years and years........as long as I can remember, I have bought bits and pieces from them since moving here in 1999 and no problems.

I am scratching my head as to why they would fit an engine they cannot identify!!!! It did have what appeared to be an old piece of curled up tape covering the engine number location, it was brown and rusty and hanging off, it disintegrated fell off when I was trying to clean the rust off it to take the photo. This 'tape' may at some stage have been some kind of barcode id, but it should still have an engine# stamped on the block!

I will probably phone him first and say that I couldn't find the engine number on the actual engine for rego and went to a holden dealership and they advised that they thought the engine number had been ground off.

I will speak to them first before involving cops etc as it will be a more mutually beneficial approach..........in saying that I shudder to think that I may have some poor person's stolen engine in my car :(

[Yellow_Festiva]

I very much doubt you have a flogged engine if they have been around for so long and you paid the going rate for the work.

Don't do this over the phone, I would drive there and speak to them.