The demise of LPG

FalconXV · 15-09-2016, 11:45 PM

http://performancedrive.com.au/sayin...lar-fuel-1513/

Wrote this one when I noticed LPG is still so cheap, yet the market has been completely abandoned. What a shame. Had an EcoLPI FG II and a petrol one. The LPI one was so much better to own and drive with obscenely low fuel costs. A damn shame I think.

Junkyard-Dog · 16-09-2016, 01:36 AM

I just don't get why so many people ignore LPG. When I have bothered to ask people, some have said that they'd simply never buy an LPG vehicle because only tight bastards buy them. Another common criticism is that they run rougher and are unreliable to own but funnily enough none of these experts notice that my ute is LPG until I tell them.

I think there is a stigma around LPG because of the taxi industry (lack of maintenance) and because of dodgy cheap installs ruining the image. At the end of the day, I would rather save a substantial amount on fuel and be seen as a tight wad than pay through the nose for no real benefit while using a dedicated ULP car.

GTENVY · 16-09-2016, 02:20 AM

It's funny because I have been looking at buying a cheap (and I mean cheap) work ute. I've been looking at AU 2000-2002 models and the LPG ones have tickled my interest. The one thing that I noticed when doing my research so far that even though the AU dedicated LPG engine is down on power against petrol it's actually up on torque which I found interesting. The one thing I have a small amount of concern in is for how much longer will LPG be available for??

Anyone used a dedicated LPG ute for towing??

Rich

Itsme · 16-09-2016, 02:44 AM

I use to run LPG vehicles up to 2002, got sick of LPG due to **** gas that waxes up your system, trying to find decent mechanics who actually know how to fix faults instead of them trying to replace the gas system (excessive cost)
To me maintenance is an issue with LPG.

With most modern day vehicles these days being fuel efficient in economy with petrol & diesel I will never go back to LPG.

What I find amusing is that a few friends who still run LPG are still experiencing same problems as I faced nearly 14 years ago, so much for LPG technology advancement in vehicles today.

Not surprised with the demise of LPG

davenl5l · 16-09-2016, 05:44 AM

I run a dual fuel ba (injected gas) its fast,reliable and cheap to run just as good on gas as petrol. I am worried about the future as im building a dedicated gas xc gs coupe and i have noticed a lot of new servos don't have gas and a lot of the old ones are removing it

BPXR6T · 16-09-2016, 06:12 AM

Had my ute regod yesterday and am ripping the lpg system out today. Hate it. Aside from more moving parts to fail it makes the engine bay look crap. Sick of buying new gas convertors too. I will never run lpg again.

baboon · 16-09-2016, 06:21 AM

No converter in the new systems to worry about.

But geez, just bought two dual fuel cars and now talk of demise, that'd be my luck!

I have noticed in Geelong/Melbourne that there are PLENTY of LPG running vehicles (non-taxi)!

Franco Cozzo · 16-09-2016, 07:02 AM

I removed the LPG setup from my Falcon, it had one of those Tickford setups.

What screwed the LPG industry is all the crappy installs getting around, all the duel fuel cars we get in have leaks and electrical problems because they installed the wiring with splice connectors/scotch locks or crimp connectors with pliers.

You start them and smell LPG, its just horrible.

Plus it seems fuel quality changes from tank to tank even from the same servo.

OzJavelin · 16-09-2016, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTENVY

Anyone used a dedicated LPG ute for towing??
Rich

Yes .. had two utes on LPG and both used for a LOT of horsefloat towing. Both performed well when used within their limitations.

Previous 2001 AUII XL V8 ute was dual fuel (Parnell BBQ-style system) from 2002-2009. Reliable, but developed an "issue" early on where on LPG would require two starts - would start, fire, stop .. then start, fire. Don't think I ever had an issue with the converter? The main issue with the AU was the auto cooler milkshaked the auto .. and even after rebuild wasn't the same so traded in at about 210,000.

Current 2009 FG XR6 Egas is factory dedicated BBQ-style system (4-speed auto, etc). Currently at 185,000km and was used for a lot of float towing. No real major issues with it either so far. Its adequate for the job, cheap to run, cheap to maintain, comfortable to drive ..

The FG passed from my wife to me as she bought a MY2015 Triton diesel. The Triton tows better, but its not as cheap to run and no where near as cheap to maintain ...

Personally I look at diesels as a bit of a false economy ... everything for them is expensive, they seem vulnerable to fuel contamination, EGR soot, etc. Having said that .. if you have a need to tow heavy things they are your best alternative (probably)

**Polyal** · 16-09-2016, 08:03 AM

If you havent experienced an injection styled system your missing out or not getting the full picture.

Its like comparing a VHS to a Blu Ray.

baboon · 16-09-2016, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

If you havent experienced an injection styled system your missing out or not getting the full picture.

Its like comparing a VHS to a Blu Ray.

Oh yeah! Turbo + Injected LPG = Cheap fun! (in victoria anyway...)

Tonz · 16-09-2016, 08:08 AM

Total opposite,

BF11 ute dedicated LPG factory , clicking over 450 thousand K's depending how I drive it usually offering 13L/100k.
Mind you I have an excellent mechanic and 80% of the driving would be pushing the limits on highway.

Franco Cozzo · 16-09-2016, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

If you havent experienced an injection styled system your missing out or not getting the full picture.

Its like comparing a VHS to a Blu Ray.

Its too late, Ford should have had that setup on the first FG.

danzvtil · 16-09-2016, 08:44 AM

I had 2 FG EGAS Utes, they are a pragmatic purchase, you only buy one because they're cheap to run. I don't miss the backfiring, 400k range, sluggish performance and crap resale, we were only ever offered 8-10 k trade in on 2 year old Utes. By the time ECOPLI came along the market had moved to deisel.

**Polyal** · 16-09-2016, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Its too late, Ford should have had that setup on the first FG.

I installed a SVI system on my AU2 a while back and it was amazing...people could not pick it was on LPG.

As for Ford..well..$$$ always a problem.

shayne93 · 16-09-2016, 10:06 AM

I was a fan of gas, but...
I ended up buying an early FG factory gas trayback ute, at the time I had an FG XR6 petrol.

Up in Townsville, gas fluctuates between 80c and 99c per litre, and not every servo has it. The FG ute used minimum 16L/100 on the highway, cost me slightly more than the XR6 to run, but only getting 350-400ks out of a tank of gas was frustrating.

The power of the gas ute was good though, as good as the AU ute I had.

2011G6E · 16-09-2016, 10:09 AM

The government ruined it...
LP used to be dirt cheap, less than a quarter the price of petrol. Then they tried to "encourage" people to fit LP to their cars with subsidies and other programs, and plenty did.
Then, what do you know, they whacked up the excise to put it at a level where, compared to petrol, it just didn't make economic sense to fit it.

Mercury Bullet · 16-09-2016, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

The government ruined it...
LP used to be dirt cheap, less than a quarter the price of petrol. Then they tried to "encourage" people to fit LP to their cars with subsidies and other programs, and plenty did.
Then, what do you know, they whacked up the excise to put it at a level where, compared to petrol, it just didn't make economic sense to fit it.

I know a hire car driver who used it up until 2004.

Then all of a sudden it became uneconomic because of the price rises.

At the time we were selling to Japan for ~2c/litre I believe. Typical govt screwing the locals.

There's still a couple of trucking companies over here running it in their pocket road trains. I wonder how they are finding it?

zdenko · 16-09-2016, 11:08 AM

Well I would have to say our Government is just stupid. It doesn't matter which side you vote for the two majors just don't get it.
No foresight, no patriotism.
We have a locally sourced fuel and instead of utilising it to reduce living costs, they just either give it away to other countries or screw over Australian consumers with the help of Multinational oil giants.
Apparently this is one of the benefits of Globalisation and free trade agreements.

I am to young to have really benefited from Gas when it was heaps cheaper than it is now but still went ahead with it.

I had my Au3 XR6 converted in 2011 with a Impco Mixer system which cost me bugger all to install after the $1500 rebate. I think $1000 and I had some other work done at the same time.
I did have some initial problems with backfiring for the first year and it ended up being the coil pack in the end.
Not a single issue since for the last 4 years.
On Petrol I was doing 11.5-12L/100km and on LPG I was achieving 14.5-15.5L/100km. These days I struggle getting under 16L/100km as traffic has gotten so much worse but at under 55c a litre it is not such a big deal.
I pretty much made up the cost of install in less than a year.
I also will keep driving the car until it becomes unviable to do so.

If I was in the same position today, I wouldn't convert a car as the cost to convert is just not worth it.
Another local industry the government has successfully help kill.
The place that did mine has told me that they do not do many at all now.

TER2BO · 16-09-2016, 11:18 AM

Well,
I will just have to disagree with some of the comments and doomsdayers.

Firstly, a lot of the negatives seem to come from older installations not the later Injected gas or liquid systems. I have had injected gas on my Turbo Territory for 4+ years 100,000 klms without any problems whatsoever.

Secondly, yes its unfortunate that both the Holden & Ford LPG cars will no longer be available. There may be some other vehicles that will come out & there will still be a market for some conversions.

Thirdly, over the last 5yrs we have had this obession with Diesel . Why because its cheap to buy etc. Well we are about 5yrs behind the rest of the world. In Europe some countries are now limiting new sales of Diesels and Merc. Benz says it won't ? be able to meet the next round of pollution regs. A duel fuel diesel/lpg will.
By the way we import our Diesel in Aust. Someone needs to take up the LPG cause with the Govt. If not, about the pollution ,what about the countries Balance of Payments. $$$$$$
Other people are all on about electric vehicles because they are non polluting . This is the greatest myth of all. Where does the power come from solar panels or our heavily polluting power stations(hydo/wind excepted).
In my opinon we do not have unlimited resoures and need to look at all different fuels to satisfy our needs including LPG by itself or in conjuction with other fuels before any infastructure is disguarded.

Dr Terry · 16-09-2016, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

At the time we were selling to Japan for ~2c/litre I believe. Typical govt screwing the locals.

That was natural gas, sold in gigaliter containers, not LPG dispensed at retail outlets. 2 very different products.

Dr Terry

Mercury Bullet · 16-09-2016, 12:16 PM

You're right, my mistake.

However I do believe the trucks are running LNG?

KenW · 16-09-2016, 01:34 PM

Trucks were running LNG but that has fallen away due to high cost, rebates on installation going down and excise on the gas going up.

**PridenJoy** · 16-09-2016, 02:04 PM

I have four cars on LPG, two mixer, one SVI XR8 and one EcoLpi.

The Ecolpi and SVI cannot be faulted, run seemlessly and the Ecolpi is ridiculously fast for a stock NA XR6

The mixer systems are varied, some are better than others, one car (AU Wagon) has the OMVL converter, and aside from blocked converter (replaced for $80), as long as ignition system is maintained, i'd drive it around Australia with no issues. The other car has the better system (IMPCO), is a quality install and drives very well on gas. The key to mixer systems really is keeping on top of the ignition system and making sure it's in very good working order.

Dual Fuel with mixer systems is not ideal as car will only run very well on one fuel and the other will be compromised but there is no reason it would be unreliable.

Love LPG and will be screwed if it's ever phased out but i doubt that would happen.

Vesper Martini · 16-09-2016, 03:00 PM

Imagine if an engine or even a car was designed from scratch to use LPG.
too little too late.

If it was done properly everyone would be driving them. not caring if they have a big car because it costs less than a Corolla to run.

NX74205 · 16-09-2016, 03:51 PM

Aside from the cost of filling up, what are the benefits of LPG?

simon varley · 16-09-2016, 03:55 PM

part of the problem though is the size of the tank needed to get decent range. The fuel is just less energy dense than gasoline (26MJ/L versus 34.2MJ/L) so there isn't really any way around needing a bigger tank. That is one of the reasons there was never a factory territory lpg car.

Mercury Bullet · 16-09-2016, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Imagine if an engine or even a car was designed from scratch to use LPG.
too little too late.

If it was done properly everyone would be driving them. not caring if they have a big car because it costs less than a Corolla to run.

For sure.

Imagine an ecoboost properly done. Turbo's and gas is a great combination.

Up the compression and...

**Revolver** · 16-09-2016, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davenl5l

i have noticed a lot of new servos don't have gas and a lot of the old ones are removing it

Yep, one of the sites I used to work for pulled out all the tanks, pumps and the concrete. Replaced them all, and were planning not to put the gas back in. & They didnt.

A brand new BP has opened up on the highway to my home site with no gas.

Problem is, its expensive to put in, expensive to maintain, expensive permits, not as much margin, and not as many customers.....

That'll do it.

**Bluehoon** · 16-09-2016, 05:10 PM

Yes it is on the demise.

I bought a BFII Xt E-gas years ago.

Got the workshop manual and stay on top of the maintenance, properly.

Never fails, misses a beat or causes problems.

$45 for a fill of good BP autogas and lasts me 400kms around town.

Won't be letting this car go, nothing compares to the running costs.

Main issues are BBQ style converters are a put off but, as agricultural as they are, work well. Mechanics that actually know what they're doing - very rare.