Auto shut off cars

[jphanna]

We are told Over 90% of the wear in a motor happens at start up. Don’t know exactly the right percentage but its over 90% from memory. Now that is assuming it’s a cold motor in the morning when every drop of oil is in the sump.
If the motor could theoretically stay on after just one start, after thousands and thousand of miles, the wear would be negligible ….in theory.

Taxis with huge kms piling up, was evidence of that as they only start up and run constantly.

I have ridden to work for 27 years straight on a push bike. I sit at the lights and these days, hear a lot of cars with engine off and they start up as they take off. Usually, late model European cars, and late model Subaru seem to have this feature. I hear and see it every day now.

So 15 years from now, what are these cars going to be like as a high mileage second hand car? Will they have questionable motors due to constant stop (motor) start (motor) driving, and gone through multiple starter motors in that time?

One of those things that only time will tell.

[Itsme]

These cars that have stop start technology have starter motors built for this purpose of not wearing out easily, as for second hand who cares as most new cars are only built for a limited life span, have you not heard we live in a throw away society these days, most people will be purchasing new cars every 3 to 5 years.

This is becoming the norm these days!

[Windsor220]

Apparently they stop at a certain point in the cycle so the power stroke assists with the startup so reducing the load on the starter motor.

Also if the engine is already warm the constant starting shouldn't have an effect on engine wear.

[Streets]

I don't think we'll encounter a lot of second-hand stop-start cars in the future; they've only been around for a few short years and only a handful have stop-start technology (compared to cars that don't). Soon the majority of cars will be electric, so stop-start engines will be a statistically small demographic in the grand scheme of things.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by jphanna

I have ridden to work for 27 years straight on a push bike. I sit at the lights and these days, hear a lot of cars with engine off and they start up as they take off. Usually, late model European cars, and late model Subaru seem to have this feature. I hear and see it every day now.

.

From a cyclist point of view do you prefer the engines off sitting at the lights?

PS I've driven a Mazda 6 with this tech, they start effortlessly and accelerate as soon as you hit the pedal. surprised me actually

[jphanna]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

From a cyclist point of view do you prefer the engines off sitting at the lights?

PS I've driven a Mazda 6 with this tech, they start effortlessly and accelerate as soon as you hit the pedal. surprised me actually

i dont have an opinion as such, but just getting used to absolute no noise waiting, to a click, engine on.... and immediate take off.

you dont realise the engine is off at lights, until they take off.

[Raptor]

Whilst I am no fan of these systems the Mazda one is quite clever, doesn't use the starter motor at all;

While conventional idling stop systems rely on a starter motor to restart the engine, Mazda's i-stop restarts the engine through combustion; fuel is directly injected into a cylinder while the engine is stopped and ignited to generate downward piston force.

ref: http://www.mazda.com/en/innovation/t...gy/env/i-stop/

Making good use of all the sensors and systems that are already on modern engines.






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[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by trublu

These cars that have stop start technology have starter motors built for this purpose of not wearing out easily, as for second hand who cares as most new cars are only built for a limited life span, have you not heard we live in a throw away society these days, most people will be purchasing new cars every 3 to 5 years.

This is becoming the norm these days!

It's all well and good to say cars are now part of the throwaway mentality,but that only really applies if you are prepared to scrap your 4-5 year old vehicle rather than expect to get a good trade in price when you are tired of it

[ronwest]

Originally Posted by trublu

These cars that have stop start technology have starter motors built for this purpose of not wearing out easily,

My daughter has a new RR Evoque.
Apparently the starter motor has twin solenoids and it's own battery.
From stop, the starter pre-engages the ring gear (presumably it's the ring gear, unless that's old hat as well) for instant start.

Interesting technology but creepy when the thing cuts out at lights.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

It's all well and good to say cars are now part of the throwaway mentality,but that only really applies if you are prepared to scrap your 4-5 year old vehicle rather than expect to get a good trade in price when you are tired of it

Getting off topic here to the OP but after owning cars for over 40 years to me new ones are more affordable in this day & age, over the last 10 years I see people scrapping or dumping cars you once considered still to be serviceable for use, sad to say that speaks volumes for itself.
More people than ever are buying newer cars opposed to buying used cars, my comment is most older used cars are being scrapped more these days than what it use to be when people held onto them.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by Raptor

Whilst I am no fan of these systems the Mazda one is quite clever, doesn't use the starter motor at all;


ref: http://www.mazda.com/en/innovation/t...gy/env/i-stop/

Making good use of all the sensors and systems that are already on modern engines.






.

Mazda still operates starter motor to restart but at reduced output. For that reason Mazdas (and other start stop equipped cars) need high quality battery that can handle the demand of multiple starts , supplying accessories in partially discharged state and accepting regen current when brakes are applied.
Start stop systems are a gimmick - no such thing as free lunch , there is an increased mechanical wear and complexity in exchange for minimal fuel saving (modern engines idle very efficiently) .

[Pedro]

I drove a mates Audi with this "technology" for a couple of hours and it was a PITA. There is a slight delay while other cars move off and in peak hour traffic it drove me insane. It may be different for me in that I am a left foot braker so when lights change or traffic moves again, my take off is instant.

[Brazen]

Good tech that reduces localised pollution, especially in gridlock or cities.

I doubt it will effect the life of the car, I cant think of any car I ever owned where the engine simply wore out. Trans have blown, cars have overheated and cracked a head or cars getting written off in a car accident probably account for most end of car lives

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

Mazda still operates starter motor to restart but at reduced output. For that reason Mazdas (and other start stop equipped cars) need high quality battery that can handle the demand of multiple starts , supplying accessories in partially discharged state and accepting regen current when brakes are applied.
Start stop systems are a gimmick - no such thing as free lunch , there is an increased mechanical wear and complexity in exchange for minimal fuel saving (modern engines idle very efficiently) .

Start stop is not really for fuel saving it is more to do with cutting down on emissions in today's world.

[music189]

Yes they all say it will save you fuel but in reality it is emissions driven tech, which could be concsrewed to be the same thing

I drive a VW diesel 7 speed auto with it for work and it is dangerous it's to slow to react
the off button for it is the first thing I use when starting up
And testing batteries for these things has gone back to the old school hydrometer as no battery electronic tester can do the test.re VACC

Price the batteries too, most are close to $400

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Pedro

I drove a mates Audi with this "technology" for a couple of hours and it was a PITA. There is a slight delay while other cars move off and in peak hour traffic it drove me insane. It may be different for me in that I am a left foot braker so when lights change or traffic moves again, my take off is instant.

The Mazda 6 I drove reacts quicker than My Territory's delayed pedal..

Raptors Post explains that, you barely notice the starter motor if at all on the Mazda.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Good tech that reduces localised pollution, especially in gridlock or cities.

I doubt it will effect the life of the car, I cant think of any car I ever owned where the engine simply wore out. Trans have blown, cars have overheated and cracked a head or cars getting written off in a car accident probably account for most end of car lives

It must make a difference in cities and Built up traffic. surely if you were a cyclist or a pedestrian waiting on a busy street corner it would be a Positive.

[R12RT]

I personally don't like the auto stop/start on my Mondeo.

It is particularly annoying for short stops where just as you come to a stop, the engine shuts down just as the lights go green.

I switch it off in general driving only switching it on if I think I am going to be stopped for a significant amount of time.

According to the trip computer the stop/starts saves about 0.5L of fuel per hour.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by trublu

Start stop is not really for fuel saving it is more to do with cutting down on emissions in today's world.

It is driven by fuel economy savings and emission reductions as required by driving cycle tests designed by governments.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

It is driven by fuel economy savings and emission reductions as required by driving cycle tests designed by governments.

This!

If part of the test involves simulating sitting at a traffic light, then a manufacturer can get a noticeable gain by having the engine shut off rather than sucking down fuel. Nice for on paper fuel numbers, but a pain in the real world.

I don't mind auto-stop-start, sitting at the lights in silence I quite nice. That said the systems are not very bearable in heavy stop/start traffic.

[P5Graeme]

We drive a VW Touareg. With this car when you come to a stop with foot on brake the motor cuts out. You just need to pre empt when the lights will go green and take your foot off the brake and it starts again. The motor will only stop for a max of about 2-3 min before it starts by itself. The Touareg has auto hold so you just need to put your foot on the accelerator and away you go. Both the auto stop and brake hold took some getting used to but I wouldn't be without it now.

[Sabantien]

It works great in my gf's Audi.

The engine is restarted before my foot makes it to the accelerator. I guess I could try to beat it, but we're not on the race track.
Just move your foot on the brake and it restarts anyhow, it's no big deal. Only bothers me in hot weather because it kills the A/C and replaces it with the fan at a higher speed.

As for burning out starter motors, you don't put this tech into cars without compensating for the (minimal) extra wear. I'm sure somewhere down the track they'll need replacing, but it's not like I haven't had to replace a starter motor in an older car anyhow.

[2011G6E]

OK, I'll ask....being a Queenslander and seeing what our summers are like, it's an important point...

"Air conditioning"....

How does it keep going? Or I assume it doesn't. No thanks...


The technology I want to know about is engines with cylinder shutdown like the Chrysler hemi V8 in the 300C and others...what will they be like after years of different owners and who knows how regular oil changes....?

[GO FURTHER]

So what happens with these auto stop cars when you have had a flat battery, and you jump start it, then take it for a drive to get some charge back in the battery.....

Then you hit stop start traffic / long red lights.... Could the car possibly not start again as the battery is still low in charge? .... Or are they smart enough to sense the low battery voltage in this situation and keep running when you come to a stop???

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

OK, I'll ask....being a Queenslander and seeing what our summers are like, it's an important point...

"Air conditioning"....

How does it keep going? Or I assume it doesn't. No thanks...


The technology I want to know about is engines with cylinder shutdown like the Chrysler hemi V8 in the 300C and others...what will they be like after years of different owners and who knows how regular oil changes....?

I think the opposite would be worse, at least you can wind your window down, freezing to death in the colder climes while sitting in gridlocked traffic...no thanks....

I would think you could disable the auto shut off function in times like these, or I would hope so....

[EBSXR6]

BMW has the option of disabling the stop / start function on a journey basis (push a button) or it can be disabled via the last user mode setting. I am not sure if the later is available on all models. My understanding that last user mode needs a dealer or someone with the right equipment to enable it.

Mazda iStop is on a journey basis though I have read of a couple of solutions one post the person has made a wedge to jam the switch and another
"I permanently disabled it on my cx5. Just got a timing relay and a 91 ohm resistor and put it in parallel with the istop button. The button is part of a resistive matrix switch arrangement (hence the 91 ohm resistor needed) and on the cx5 it was the pink and purple wire. I set it to mimic a button press after 10 seconds. Pretty tricky to do but worth it!"

[Sioso]

If the aircon is on the motor won't shut off same if the battery is low.
My wifes CX5 is pretty good I only turn it off if I'm crawling along in traffic and it starts cutting in and out, otherwise it is a pretty good system.
In my Golf I switch it off as soon as I start the car, I've never used it so I don't even know if it is a good system or not I just don't like the idea of shutting down a turbo motor straight after I have thrashed it.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

OK, I'll ask....being a Queenslander and seeing what our summers are like, it's an important point...

"Air conditioning"....

How does it keep going? Or I assume it doesn't. No thanks...


The technology I want to know about is engines with cylinder shutdown like the Chrysler hemi V8 in the 300C and others...what will they be like after years of different owners and who knows how regular oil changes....?

They would most likely use electric motor driven compressor instead of a mechanical one and a big battery to supply the current. Hybrids already run electric a/c compressors and similarly power steering pumps are being replaced by electric assisted power steering systems.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

OK, I'll ask....being a Queenslander and seeing what our summers are like, it's an important point...

"Air conditioning"....

How does it keep going? Or I assume it doesn't. No thanks...

Apparently the engine wont shut down if the aircon is on full.

But I think.. the pump is still powered somehow from the regenerative braking tech

[Sabantien]

In our Audi the aircon turns off, and the fan gets put up to a higher setting.
But there is a button to turn off stop start.
Or if you start getting warm, you move your foot a fraction on the brake and it restarts.
Plus the engine will restart on it's own if it has been off for a while and it's getting hot.

I don't think it's going to stop blowing warm air as suggested if you have the heater on.
The engine ain't cooling down that quickly.