"Autonomous" Cars - here now?

[Crazy Dazz]

I find myself making a lot of trips to Mandurah. So that's basically an hour sitting in the right-hand lane of the freeway. Longer in traffic.

Amongst other things, I have been batting around the idea of purchasing a Mondeo. I understand the latter models have "Lane Keeping Assist", "Adaptive Cruise Control," and some form of "automatic braking." Plus such features are also available on other cars.

So my question(s) is what extent these can actually create an autonomous driving experience??
ie if I am happy to sit in the right hand lane of the freeway, and travel at the prevailing speed. Could I hypothetically close my eyes and have a snooze and let the car take care of the driving?

More realistically, I find the drive very stressful, the constant concentration, and watching out for the proliferate morons. Would these features allow me to relax? In either case, the real question is whether they are close to 100% failsafe? (IMHO having to constantly monitor the system in case it fails or disengages doesn't reduce the stress. Plus I don't actually want to be unsafe.)

Also, what are the differences between systems? I've read that some will disengage if you nudge the steering wheel, whereas others rely on the indicator. Also that some will only work on relatively straight roads, which seems rather pointless and dangerous.

[Trendseeker]

I have the technology pack in my Escape and it has similar safety features to the Mondeo. It will definitely give you a more relaxed trip but it won’t provide autonomous driving.

The lane keeping assist will push the car back into your lane if it wanders over the line. It doesn’t disengage if you nudge the wheel but it can be turned off and on by a button on the indicator stalk. It works on straight and curving roads as long as there are lines on the road. It seems to recognise the kerb too. Another forum member who has a Ranger and whose wife has an Escape tells me that the “push” from the lane keeping assist is much more effective in the Ranger.

The autonomous braking works fine but it isn’t gentle; it feels like you’ve run over something and it is dragging under the car.

They’re great safety features but the adaptive cruise control is the one that will give you a more relaxed trip. It’s useful especially when the speed limits change along the motorway. You can set it to a limit and then allow the driver in front to slow down at road works sections and speed up when they end. You don’t need to touch the brake.

In summary, you’ll get a more relaxed drive but no snoozing.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Trendseeker

I have the technology pack in my Escape and it has similar safety features to the Mondeo. It will definitely give you a more relaxed trip but it won’t provide autonomous driving.

The lane keeping assist will push the car back into your lane if it wanders over the line. It doesn’t disengage if you nudge the wheel but it can be turned off and on by a button on the indicator stalk. It works on straight and curving roads as long as there are lines on the road. It seems to recognise the kerb too. Another forum member who has a Ranger and whose wife has an Escape tells me that the “push” from the lane keeping assist is much more effective in the Ranger.

The autonomous braking works fine but it isn’t gentle; it feels like you’ve run over something and it is dragging under the car.

They’re great safety features but the adaptive cruise control is the one that will give you a more relaxed trip. It’s useful especially when the speed limits change along the motorway. You can set it to a limit and then allow the driver in front to slow down at road works sections and speed up when they end. You don’t need to touch the brake.

In summary, you’ll get a more relaxed drive but no snoozing.

Serious question.... I've never driven a car with lane assist, but I have dodged over the lines a lot of times avoiding Kangaroos.

How would LA cope with that?

[Iggle Piggle]

No lane assist or adaptive cruise???


What are you driving...a 90's Camry CSI with beefy V6?

[GasoLane]

Other than the Ute in my Avatar a CLK Benz (which is boring enough on the highway without those extra's )

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

So that's basically an hour sitting in the right-hand lane of the freeway.

ahh, one of 'those' types are we?

[Trendseeker]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Serious question.... I've never driven a car with lane assist, but I have dodged over the lines a lot of times avoiding Kangaroos.

How would LA cope with that?

I’ve never tried to dodge a kangaroo. I do know that if you use your indicator to change lanes it disables lane keeping assist momentarily.

[superroo]

Had recently a Mondeo & Kuga on lease and never did like the lane assist.
For us it never really recognised the lines properly and when it did, it didn't last to long.
It is a keep aid. It only corrects drifting and try's to pull you back to centre. It won't steer around corners. You can easily overpower it for a swerve or deliberate action.

As for radar cruise, brilliant once you trust it will slow down (cuts out at approx 30kph).
I ended up using it to drive around town, I was able to trust it that much. Definately on the must have feature list.

For emergency braking, I drove a demonstration of it (foam barrier) and you get unnervingly close before it comes in. At 50kph you have a few seconds of your brain screaming at you to brake before it kicks in.
Glad it was there on those leases (only had it used once - wasn't paying proper attention) but absolutely wouldn't rely on it.

[BlueEA]

This technology has been fast tracked waaay too early to the public for me to put my life in its hands. All the testing they have done that's in their opinion relevant to public safety is all good and well but you and I know that there are so many situations that we encounter on a daily basis that can turn very nasty in a split second and you need to be able to take appropriate action and hope you make the correct decision in that small moment in time. So how do we know if the autonomous vehicle with all it's so called technology that it would make the correct decision if we are not sure if we have made the correct one because although the situation you're facing may be like one you have possibly encountered before doesn't mean the same decision is the correct one as there are so many variables to that decision So until they can prove beyond any shadow of doubt that they have all situations covered I for one won't be putting my life and other lives at risk just because they say it's safe. Prove it to me first. All I'm saying is don't be too hasty in putting your lives in the hands of these Autonomous vehicles as they have got a long way to go in getting these perfected. IMO.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by superroo

For emergency braking, I drove a demonstration of it (foam barrier) and you get unnervingly close before it comes in. At 50kph you have a few seconds of your brain screaming at you to brake before it kicks in.
Glad it was there on those leases (only had it used once - wasn't paying proper attention) but absolutely wouldn't rely on it.

Like this old Volvo truck vid ?

[Crazy Dazz]

Thanks for the above.

Ok, so what I don't understand is the difference between the braking and the radar cruise.

If I have the adaptive cruise set, won't it use the brakes to slow down? I just assumed than in modern cars it would all be integrated?

It's not that I would actually plan to snooze, but IMO the danger is learning to rely on a system, becoming relaxed such that my attention lessens, then the system fails. NB Suddenly having alarms blaring, and the brakes slam on, isn't that appealing either. Especially if the dill behind is paying attention.

[theBlake]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Ok, so what I don't understand is the difference between the braking and the radar cruise.

having just used this for the first time in a rental car, the adaptive cruise control cuts out at slow speeds, so it doesnt bring the car to a stop.

[jpd80]

Lane Keep and intelligent cruise might sound a good match in theory but what you find
is that the car keeps bumping back from the edges of the lane...

What's needed is Lane Centre, something that keeps the car in the middle of the lane.
The new Autonomous emergency braking system holds promise.

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Like this old Volvo truck vid ?

Bugger that!

This is much better than changing down to 2nd and hitting the Jake to scare the crap out of wake up the dunce in front.

[Trendseeker]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Thanks for the above.

Ok, so what I don't understand is the difference between the braking and the radar cruise.

If I have the adaptive cruise set, won't it use the brakes to slow down? I just assumed than in modern cars it would all be integrated?

It's not that I would actually plan to snooze, but IMO the danger is learning to rely on a system, becoming relaxed such that my attention lessens, then the system fails. NB Suddenly having alarms blaring, and the brakes slam on, isn't that appealing either. Especially if the dill behind is paying attention.

Yes, adaptive cruise does use the brakes to slow down. But adaptive cruise doesn’t work below 20kph, so it won’t bring the car to a complete stop if the car in front slows right down. But emergency braking does work below 50kph so that will kick in and you’ll be like the Volvo truck in the clip above.

There are all sorts of warnings and qualifications in the manual about situations in which the safety features “may not work”. You have to remain alert, although you can rest your right foot a lot longer with adaptive cruise control, especially on motorways where there are speed limit changes for roadworks. The driver in front slows down and speeds up and the adaptive cruise adjusts your speed to match. That’s about as far as it goes.

[jpblue1000]

I had a hire car with the adaptive cruise shindiggery and it caught me out. I was in the slow lane approaching a slower car with faster cars over my shoulder, I accelerated hard to merge and the car did the exact opposite as it reduced power the closer I got to the car in front. The harder i pushed on the pedal the slower I went, thought id broken it. Didnt merge but also didnt hit the car in front...

[solarite_guy]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

I had a hire car with the adaptive cruise shindiggery and it caught me out. I was in the slow lane approaching a slower car with faster cars over my shoulder, I accelerated hard to merge and the car did the exact opposite as it reduced power the closer I got to the car in front. The harder i pushed on the pedal the slower I went, thought id broken it. Didnt merge but also didnt hit the car in front...

I don't doubt it. In all honesty, my biggest concern about this automation include overtaking and counter steering scenarios especially in snow and ice.

[jpblue1000]

On this particular car the adaptive cruise was disengaged by a quick poke of a button on the indicator stalk, as it turns out so wasnt a problem again...but i didnt get used to it. So many buttons to push before getting underway.
The car should never be steering for us!...Never.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

On this particular car the adaptive cruise was disengaged by a quick poke of a button on the indicator stalk, as it turns out so wasnt a problem again...but i didnt get used to it. So many buttons to push before getting underway.
The car should never be steering for us!...Never.

These systems are only being developed because so many humans are useless at driving a car. If people stopped running in to other people there would be no need for the autonomous systems.

[Tonz]

there are suggestions that driverless cars are going to be 'trialed' in Adelaide CBD... now i have a nasty mind and thinking how much hell could one cause these vehicles by driving erratically just for the shear 'ell of it... around them..mad teenager years coming back.

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by Tonz

there are suggestions that driverless cars are going to be 'trialed' in Adelaide CBD... now i have a nasty mind and thinking how much hell could one cause these vehicles by driving erratically just for the shear 'ell of it... around them..mad teenager years coming back.

These things will have cameras everywhere. I’d expect a knock on the door from the boys in blue and a dangerous driving charge, and it’d be very much deserved too.

[Trendseeker]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

I had a hire car with the adaptive cruise shindiggery and it caught me out. I was in the slow lane approaching a slower car with faster cars over my shoulder, I accelerated hard to merge and the car did the exact opposite as it reduced power the closer I got to the car in front. The harder i pushed on the pedal the slower I went, thought id broken it. Didnt merge but also didnt hit the car in front...

I’ve overtaken other cars with the cruise active recently and didn’t notice any issue, although I suspected that I moved straight into the next lane rather than accelerating in the same lane first.

So I tested it today and the adaptive cruise does not prevent you from moving closer to the car in front if you press the accelerator. When you press the accelerator the digital panel displays “Override” and the car responds as you would expect. I had the cruise distance set to the maximum and I was able to move a lot closer to the car in front by accelerating. As soon as I took my foot off the accelerator the car applied the brakes and moved back to the set distance and resumed the same speed as the car in front.

So, what type of car were you driving with adaptive cruise?

[Rusty62]

yeah, I cant stand these modern cars that think they know best. I had a courtesy Mondeo the last couple of days and the bastard stalls everytime you stop lol, Im sure theyll be replacing a lot of starter motors on these things.
Also you cant take the parkbrake off unless the engine is running and you cant start the thing unless you press the brake pedal...and you cant put your seatbelt on if you park on a hill ffs
They are building cars for idiots lol

[Trendseeker]

Yep, power steering, power windows, standard cruise control, parking cameras and sensors, who needs any of them when you can grow some muscles, wind the window, keep your foot on the accelerator and look over your shoulder to park the car. If you buy a new car next time, you’ll get all the safety features as standard anyway.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by Trendseeker

I’ve overtaken other cars with the cruise active recently and didn’t notice any issue, although I suspected that I moved straight into the next lane rather than accelerating in the same lane first.

So I tested it today and the adaptive cruise does not prevent you from moving closer to the car in front if you press the accelerator. When you press the accelerator the digital panel displays “Override” and the car responds as you would expect. I had the cruise distance set to the maximum and I was able to move a lot closer to the car in front by accelerating. As soon as I took my foot off the accelerator the car applied the brakes and moved back to the set distance and resumed the same speed as the car in front.

So, what type of car were you driving with adaptive cruise?

A hyundai Ioniq. the distance it would sit behind was adjustable and it would not accelerate if you are within that range. I know what your saying the cruise should disengage but, and a big but I didnt get used to it perhaps there were other settings I needed to engage, disengage or whatevers.
once off it was just like any car...oh ugly though
JP

[BlueEA]

Like I have said in my previous remarks there are so many variants to situations when driving that you have seconds to react to the mind boggles. Can you imagine the reaction there would be if for instance a situation arose that the automated vehicle should have responded or taken appropriate action to but didn't. 'Oh I'm so sorry for your loss apparently that situation must have been overlooked / hadn't occurred to us therefore the possible avoidance reaction to this incident wasn't uploaded into the software, sorry about that'.
Look I'm sorry I'm going on about this but this so called wizz-bang technology is nowhere close to being a safe automated alternative (to cars) for human transportation. I have a couple of friends who are associated although not directly with the logistics of this but have work mates that are and they are saying that the amount of different scenarios that have to be worked out so they can be incorporated into the software is so absolutely mind blowing that it will be a very long time before it gets to a high safety level standard that the public can, shall we say trust, to be so. Although there has been years of testing certain aspects of the so-called automated vehicle doesn't mean it's perfected far from it. Your lives are on the line here so don't be too trusting because if they've got it wrong you are going to be the one to find that out. As I've said before they'll have to prove to me they're safe before I'll set foot in one.
Anyway I'll stop here as it may be getting away from the point of this thread.
This is only my opinion folks.

[bathurst77]

As someone whos daily commute is more than an hour each way on Freeway, can I ask, Please dont sit in the right hand lane of the freeway, and travel at the prevailing speed. Move the hell over to the left!
An hour isnt long just drive it and if you find the drive very stressful, maybe get there another way
As to the proliferate morons, someone once told me, if you meet one ******* a day, you met a *******, if you meet 10 a day, maybe youre the *******

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by BlueEA

Like I have said in my previous remarks there are so many variants to situations when driving that you have seconds to react to the mind boggles. Can you imagine the reaction there would be if for instance a situation arose that the automated vehicle should have responded or taken appropriate action to but didn't. 'Oh I'm so sorry for your loss apparently that situation must have been overlooked / hadn't occurred to us therefore the possible avoidance reaction to this incident wasn't uploaded into the software, sorry about that'.
Look I'm sorry I'm going on about this but this so called wizz-bang technology is nowhere close to being a safe automated alternative (to cars) for human transportation. I have a couple of friends who are associated although not directly with the logistics of this but have work mates that are and they are saying that the amount of different scenarios that have to be worked out so they can be incorporated into the software is so absolutely mind blowing that it will be a very long time before it gets to a high safety level standard that the public can, shall we say trust, to be so. Although there has been years of testing certain aspects of the so-called automated vehicle doesn't mean it's perfected far from it. Your lives are on the line here so don't be too trusting because if they've got it wrong you are going to be the one to find that out. As I've said before they'll have to prove to me they're safe before I'll set foot in one.
Anyway I'll stop here as it may be getting away from the point of this thread.
This is only my opinion folks.

I bet most human drivers haven't thought of many scenarios themselves and how to get out of the trouble they may find themselves in yet they get licenses and go out driving. I believe most collisions are a result of the hapless human not being developed enough to predict and react to hazards in enough time. Having spoken at length with Seimens engineers at the forefront of autonomous trials Ill bet on the autonomous vehicle avoiding the scenario rather than having to react to it!

JP

[solarite_guy]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

I bet most human drivers haven't thought of many scenarios themselves and how to get out of the trouble they may find themselves in yet they get licenses and go out driving. I believe most collisions are a result of the hapless human not being developed enough to predict and react to hazards in enough time. Having spoken at length with Seimens engineers at the forefront of autonomous trials Ill bet on the autonomous vehicle avoiding the scenario rather than having to react to it!

JP

Sorry, the system only lets me give you one thumbs up.

IMHO, Nonetheless, true on all counts.

[XByoot]

Is there any standard communication protocols between these vehicles? For example in aviation if a reduction in seperation may occur and a solution is required It will involve the system communicating with both aircraft. It will typically involve one climbing and one descending but variances in solutions may occur. It’s a real simple system and current tech only involves creating vertical seperation, ie it doesn’t tell you to turn, it’s that basic, that’s the current bread and butter system.

Are these autonomous vehicles able to communicate with each other with some standard system protocols or are the manufacturers all just doing their own thing? It could look like a bunch of creepy crawly pool vacs all in one pool otherwise