Dualcab Towing Comparison..

hayseed · 22-08-2019, 12:51 PM

Was going continue this Thread,

https://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11479238

But It's being Locked.

Here's an Interesting Comparison of 10 Dual cab Ute's & their Towing Capabilities (Or lack thereof)

https://www.carsales.com.au/editoria...towing-117657/

Strange how VW won't allow Weight distribution Hitchs, Brake controllers or Driving over 80Kmh....

Itsme · 22-08-2019, 01:00 PM

Sorry I decided to delete my comment.

Franco Cozzo · 22-08-2019, 10:24 PM

tldr: All the Thailand specials don't move out of their own way unloaded let alone with 3000kg on the back and 184kg of people in them.

Trevor 57 · 23-08-2019, 03:22 AM

Let's just see how long they last towing 3t their whole life

Sioso · 23-08-2019, 06:35 AM

I would have like to have seen 0-100, 1/4 mile and lap times while towing.

**russellw** · 23-08-2019, 08:30 AM

People do buy them to tow and on that basis, it's very useful information. I've given a copy to my neighbour given he's towing a large off-road van and their Wildtrack is also pretty well packed because he'll probably be getting awful close to the limits.

hayseed · 23-08-2019, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Let's just see how long they last towing 3t their whole life

My Wife has a good friend who tows an Extra F. Big Horse float with a Ranger & is currently on her 3rd transmission....

prydey · 23-08-2019, 09:33 AM

If you are towing anything over 2.5t you really need to do your due diligence when looking for a tow vehicle. Marketing is there to sell the vehicle, not to present the 'facts'. while Marketing is not 'false' it can paint a less than accurate picture, and most of the time the sales people don't have enough product knowledge to answer all the questions you need to ask.

Many are biased against these types of cars, but the reality is, if you get your weights right, they are very capable cars.

Payload deficiencies have been well documented over the years, as has the max tow rating of 3.5t, but the reality is, most people tow well below that.

csv8 · 23-08-2019, 10:17 AM

And some crack the chassis behind the cabin. Chassis not strong enough to take the weight.
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...w=1366&bih=625

Vesper Martini · 23-08-2019, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

And some crack the chassis behind the cabin. Chassis not strong enough to take the weight.
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...w=1366&bih=625

I see a lot of Tritons in particular that look like the tray is leaning back.

hayseed · 23-08-2019, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

If you are towing anything over 2.5t you really need to do your due diligence when looking for a tow vehicle. Marketing is there to sell the vehicle, not to present the 'facts'. while Marketing is not 'false' it can paint a less than accurate picture, and most of the time the sales people don't have enough product knowledge to answer all the questions you need to ask.

Many are biased against these types of cars, but the reality is, if you get your weights right, they are very capable cars.

Payload deficiencies have been well documented over the years, as has the max tow rating of 3.5t, but the reality is, most people tow well below that.

My personal opinion is..
That the 4 cylinder Dual cabs Towing capacity should be capped at around the 2500-2800kg mark..
Anything above that is asking for Trouble.. just My 2 cents..

prydey · 23-08-2019, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayseed

My personal opinion is..
That the 4 cylinder Dual cabs Towing capacity should be capped at around the 2500-2800kg mark..
Anything above that is asking for Trouble.. just My 2 cents..

Personal opinions are often at odds with the engineers that actually design and test them.

prydey · 23-08-2019, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

And some crack the chassis behind the cabin. Chassis not strong enough to take the weight.
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...w=1366&bih=625

Very few of these would be unmodified and within weight limits. Of course facts would ruin the story though.

**russellw** · 23-08-2019, 01:07 PM

The current Ranger dual cab makes an interesting case in point. (Please note: all figures are for the manual version).

It has a rated GCM of 6000 Kg. That's the total weight of the trailer/van unhitched, and the total weight of the vehicle unhitched, added together.

It has a rated GVM of 3200 Kg. That's the maximum allowed weight of the vehicle with everything in/on it, inclusive of the tow ball weight. Given that the kerb weight is nominally 2124Kg (with no accessories but including a full tank of fuel), that leaves a maximum theoretical payload of 1076 Kg. Note that the Auto adds 17 kg to the kerb weight and thus reduces the payload by that amount.

It also has a maximum front axle loading of 1480 Kg and 1850 Kg for the rear axle. The kerb weight is stated as 1159 kg for the front axle (manual) and 965 Kg for the rear axle. Add 17 Kg to the front axle for the auto. That allows (manual) 321 Kg of payload for the front axle and 885 Kg for the rear - except that would actually put it over the 3200 Kg GVM so in practice those loadings between them have to drop by 130 Kg.

It's probably not entirely accurate to say that the people add loading to the front axle as the design of the dual cab utes probably spreads at least some of it over the rear but it's fair to say that there isn't a lot of wriggle room with a 3T van.

prydey · 23-08-2019, 01:46 PM

What works in rangers favour when it comes to towing is it's long wheelbase and short tow ball overhang (distance from rear axle to tow ball).

**GasoLane** · 23-08-2019, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayseed

Strange how VW won't allow Weight distribution Hitchs, Brake controllers or Driving over 80Kmh....

Oops, so doing 110 on the Strzelecki track with 1900kgs in the trailer was naughty?

hayseed · 23-08-2019, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russellw

The current Ranger dual cab makes an interesting case in point. (Please note: all figures are for the manual version).

It has a rated GCM of 6000 Kg. That's the total weight of the trailer/van unhitched, and the total weight of the vehicle unhitched, added together.

It has a rated GVM of 3200 Kg. That's the maximum allowed weight of the vehicle with everything in/on it, inclusive of the tow ball weight. Given that the kerb weight is nominally 2124Kg (with no accessories but including a full tank of fuel), that leaves a maximum theoretical payload of 1076 Kg. Note that the Auto adds 17 kg to the kerb weight and thus reduces the payload by that amount.

It also has a maximum front axle loading of 1480 Kg and 1850 Kg for the rear axle. The kerb weight is stated as 1159 kg for the front axle (manual) and 965 Kg for the rear axle. Add 17 Kg to the front axle for the auto. That allows (manual) 321 Kg of payload for the front axle and 885 Kg for the rear - except that would actually put it over the 3200 Kg GVM so in practice those loadings between them have to drop by 130 Kg.

It's probably not entirely accurate to say that the people add loading to the front axle as the design of the dual cab utes probably spreads at least some of it over the rear but it's fair to say that there isn't a lot of wriggle room with a 3T van.

And if you do load it to 3200 Kg you're Trailer weight is capped at 2800 Kg. Otherwise your over the 6000 kg GCM..

prydey · 23-08-2019, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayseed

And if you do load it to 3200 Kg you're Trailer weight is capped at 2800 Kg. Otherwise your over the 6000 kg GCM..

By trailer weight, you mean GTM, which is the weight on the trailer wheels. ATM, which is the unhitched weight, could still be around 3100, assuming 10% ball weight included in GVM of 3200.

hayseed · 23-08-2019, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

By trailer weight, you mean GTM, which is the weight on the trailer wheels. ATM, which is the unhitched weight, could still be around 3100, assuming 10% ball weight included in GVM of 3200.

Sorry, I should have qualified that with "if you Load It to 3200 kg before hooking up the trailer..

Because as you correctly point out the ute can only be 2900kg (In round Figures) prior to hooking up the Trailer..

prydey · 23-08-2019, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayseed

Sorry, I should have qualified that with "if you Load It to 3200 kg before hooking up the trailer..

Because as you correctly point out the ute can only be 2900kg (In round Figures) prior to hooking up the Trailer..

If you load it to GVM you can't hook up any trailer...

roKWiz · 23-08-2019, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

What works in rangers favour when it comes to towing is it's long wheelbase and short tow ball overhang (distance from rear axle to tow ball).

Long wheelbase ?
7/8s of the tub/tray is hanging behind the back wheels (like all the rest), Looks like a great place to load up 1 ton.

dunga · 23-08-2019, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Long wheelbase ?
7/8s of the tub/tray is hanging behind the back wheels (like all the rest), Looks like a great place to load up 1 ton.

I fail to see what that statement has to do with wheel base and overhang.

Ben73 · 23-08-2019, 06:36 PM

Car advice is doing an 11 way comparison on dual cabs right now. Interesting to see what their results are.

I believe if you tow near your gross trailer mass occasionally it's fine, but if you're towing near it regularly you probably should look at a bigger vehicle.

Itsme · 24-08-2019, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

Personal opinions are often at odds with the engineers that actually design and test them.

I thought his personal opinion was backing up what you stated previously....lol

roKWiz · 24-08-2019, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dunga

I fail to see what that statement has to do with wheel base and overhang.

My point being... If it was actually given a longer wheelbase, where the back axle was moved say a foot (300mm) back, the tub (and therefore the load space) would be better balanced out over the centre of the rear wheels.
A bit like the US type 4 door pick ups.

XR Martin · 24-08-2019, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roKWiz

My point being... If it was actually given a longer wheelbase, where the back axle was moved say a foot (300mm) back, the tub (and therefore the load space) would be better balanced out over the centre of the rear wheels.
A bit like the US type 4 door pick ups.

Like this?

prydey · 24-08-2019, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roKWiz

My point being... If it was actually given a longer wheelbase, where the back axle was moved say a foot (300mm) back, the tub (and therefore the load space) would be better balanced out over the centre of the rear wheels.
A bit like the US type 4 door pick ups.

Maybe read again what I wrote...

jpd80 · 24-08-2019, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayseed

And if you do load it to 3200 Kg you're Trailer weight is capped at 2800 Kg. Otherwise your over the 6000 kg GCM..

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayseed
Sorry, I should have qualified that with "if you Load It to 3200 kg before hooking up the trailer..

Because as you correctly point out the ute can only be 2900kg (In round Figures) prior to hooking up the Trailer..

No, because 10% of the trailer's weight goes onto the tow vehicle's payload as
towball down force. So a 3,000 Kg trailer has 300 kg tow ball downforce and its
remaining weight is 2700 Kg, that gets added to the vehicle's 3,000 GVM.

I get that you would not want to fully load these Utes with passengers, gear in
the rear tub and a 3,000 Kg trailer. The whole Idea is to stay within those limits
and if you want a bigger Ute, you have to pay more for a Land cruiser or Patrol.

I would pull it up at a 2300 or 2500 Kg trailer as absolute max, it's more comfortable
but if you had a supercab and a ffth wheel hitch, I bet you could do some pretty
incredible stuff provided you stay on the black top or easy going dirt roads.

My ultimate Ute would be an F150 with the Land Rover 4.4 V8 diesel (they don't make it of course)

prydey · 24-08-2019, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Officemanager

I thought his personal opinion was backing up what you stated previously....lol

I was saying if you go heavier than 2.5t then you need to do your homework re all the relevant specs. I didn't say it was asking for trouble.

hayseed · 24-08-2019, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

I would pull it up at a 2300 or 2500 Kg trailer as absolute max, it's more comfortable

That's the point I've been trying to make......

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayseed

My personal opinion is..
That the 4 cylinder Dual cabs Towing capacity should be capped at around the 2500-2800kg mark..
Anything above that is asking for Trouble.. just My 2 cents..

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

I was saying if you go heavier than 2.5t then you need to do your homework re all the relevant specs.

I agree with you.......