Powertrain options

Dr Smith · 30-08-2019, 06:58 AM

I was filling in time surfing car websites and thought if I was to buy something today, what powertrain option would I really want.

I'll be upfront and say if any choice was available I'd love the new 3.0L V6 Ecoboost/Hybrid of the Explorer/Lincoln Aviator, potentially near 300kW iirc

Now it doesn't have to be so powerful (who am I kidding..yes it should) however I don't think I'd buy diesel just because of our driving environment where the hybrid side would cover the short trip, the combined powertrain would give the punch and I don't think running costs would be so much more as petrol for a long time now here is almost 20c/L cheaper.

Whether I was buying a Ranger or Terry replacement I'd prefer petrol, something with good performance and a hybrid that self-charges rather then plug-in.

A recent motoring article mentioned petrol SUV's are gaining sales vs diesel and I would think a powertrain like the new 3.0L V6 Ecoboost hybrid is perfect for Australia...hint, hint...

Brazen · 30-08-2019, 07:41 AM

A V6 Hybrid would be awesome. There is a strong possibility the next Kluger here will have a 3.5 V6 hybrid drivetrain and i bet it will be great.

I had a 4 cylinder hybrid Camry and that instant electric torque made it stronger off the line than my Falcon (and it averaged lifetime 5.6 L/100km). A V6 hybrid would be the ducks guts

Vesper Martini · 30-08-2019, 12:45 PM

I've read Nissan, Great Wall & Haval next gen utes will have hybrid. probably more.

step up Ford, you already have the technology.

lra · 30-08-2019, 01:04 PM

[QUOTE=Dr Smith;6334937 A recent motoring article mentioned petrol SUV's are gaining sales vs diesel and I would think a powertrain like the new 3.0L V6 Ecoboost hybrid is perfect for Australia...hint, hint...[/QUOTE]

Petrol SUVs and utes, tell 'im he's dreaming. Toyota have just ditched the V8 petrol Land Cruiser.
Apart from the 2.0l petrol Great Wall Steed, what other ute/pickup has a petrol engine ? Europe is banning diesels, and our market is flooded with them, because the car companies tell us that is what we want.
I would love to update to a new ute, but not a ladder framed, soot blowing, rear drum braked modern antique.
Choice ? What is that, a Kiwi expression …… "Choice, bro."

Dr Terry · 30-08-2019, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lra

Apart from the 2.0l petrol Great Wall Steed, what other ute/pickup has a petrol engine ?

Toyota Hilux Workmate 2.7 Petrol. Nissan Navara 2.5 Petrol. Mitsubishi Triton 2.4 Petrol.

Ford, Holden, Mazda have nothing. Where is the Hyundai Ute/Pick-Up, it's way overdue ??

Petrol commercial vehicles might be making a bit of a comeback. The just-released new Toyota Hiace has a 3.5 V6 petrol as the base engine.

Dr Terry

lra · 30-08-2019, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

Toyota Hilux Workmate 2.7 Petrol. Nissan Navara 2.5 Petrol. Mitsubishi Triton 2.4 Petrol. Dr Terry

OK, granted the Toyota and Mitsi do have a poverty spec single cab ute.
I could not find a petrol Navara on the Nissan site but.
Suppose I could go with a RAM ( with enough $$$$)

RIP …. the affordable, Australian availability V6 or V8 petrol utes of the past.

Brazen · 30-08-2019, 01:55 PM

A decent petrol V6 dual cab could do well. Lots of owners who are over diesel.

Bossxr8 · 30-08-2019, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

A decent petrol V6 dual cab could do well. Lots of owners who are over diesel.

Toyota had the petrol V6 in the Hilux and it made up like 1% of sales, so they ditched it.

The options have been there in the past but next to no buyers.

It would be good to have a choice of a good petrol engine in a dual cab but the numbers of buyers just aren't there. Problem is heavy vehicles with big petrol engines suck the juice, so despite people thinking they would want one, having to fill it up all the time at a high cost means they don't go through with it.

Better off with a big grunt V6 or V8 turbo diesel.

roKWiz · 30-08-2019, 03:02 PM

It funny how the whole point of originally owning a mechanical injected diesel 4x4 was when going into the outback it was a reliable vehicle that didn't drink lot of fuel and have lots of electronics that older diesels don't need, If it did breakdown, it was relatively easy to fix on the side of the road/track.
I can see why no one wants modern diesels but are electronic petrol engines any better as Bossxr8 states.

Crazy Dazz · 30-08-2019, 03:57 PM

It will be interesting to see what happens with diesels.
The basic problem is that they don't play well with Cats. But surely modern turbo-diesels, especially those with a throttle and stop-start, can be tuned to work better?
I guess the big issue would be the drop in power if they wind back the the over-fuelling?

The very interesting thing will be, if we move back towards more petrol engines, whether LPG starts to make a comeback.

Something I have never understood is why the Hybrid push started with small cars that were economical anyway, where the added weight & bulk of the hybrid system and battery was an imposition, and the additional cost prohibitive. Why don't we have Hybrid Buses and Trucks?

To get back to the OP's question:
IF you're talking about an Engine that you really WANT. Then, for me:
NO V6's. Goddamn awful engines with no redeeming qualities. (Other than being compact and CHEAP.)
NO Turbos. I drive a turbo, and its an easy way to get more power, but they don't improve engines, and I don't really like them.
NO naff names like ecoboost, ecotech, etc. If you have to name your engine, make it something cool, like the "Grunter."

I still like the I6. Particularly with twin variable cams. Something with a lightweight alloy block, around 3.6L

For allround niceness and symmetry, its still hard to go past a V8. All alloy, around 4.0L
It would be nice to see what modern design and manufacturing could do with a single cam, perhaps with some kind of variable time and lift.

The exception I would make to forced induction would be a electric super-charger as part of a Hybrid Miller-Cycle engine.

As a left-field option, I would love to see what modern design, materials, and engine management, could do with a hybrid ****el.

Dr Smith · 30-08-2019, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Toyota had the petrol V6 in the Hilux and it made up like 1% of sales, so they ditched it.

The options have been there in the past but next to no buyers.

It would be good to have a choice of a good petrol engine in a dual cab but the numbers of buyers just aren't there. Problem is heavy vehicles with big petrol engines suck the juice, so despite people thinking they would want one, having to fill it up all the time at a high cost means they don't go through with it.

Better off with a big grunt V6 or V8 turbo diesel.

While I accept your points with respect to commercial vehicles carrying loads, I'm thinking more the urban suv, like our case, wife might drive into the CBD 3 times a week, one way it's 18km, on a hybrid it would probably run electric the whole way so no petrol used at all, then when "I" get into it on the weekend I have 300kW..

edit.. I need to seek help, I think I've watched every video on the Lincoln Aviator and now the hybrid reviews are coming out...

Crazy Dazz · 30-08-2019, 09:16 PM

Why can't I say ****el?

That was his name, Felix ****el.

Next we'll be banned from talking about John ****per

chevypower · 31-08-2019, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roKWiz

It funny how the whole point of originally owning a mechanical injected diesel 4x4 was when going into the outback it was a reliable vehicle that didn't drink lot of fuel and have lots of electronics that older diesels don't need, If it did breakdown, it was relatively easy to fix on the side of the road/track.
I can see why no one wants modern diesels but are electronic petrol engines any better as Bossxr8 states.

Yes comparing current generation petrol vs Diesel engines, the diesel is way more complex and more expensive. It used to be that if you were doing a lot of heavy pulling, the diesel would pay you back in fuel savings. I don’t even think that’s true anymore. It does still give you a lot more low end torque, unless the petrol engine is turbocharged. But the petrol can still be nicer to drive.

XR Martin · 31-08-2019, 10:25 AM

Next Gen Kluger will be hybrid only

minheim · 31-08-2019, 11:49 AM

Interesting that in the USA the Ranger is petrol only and has a 2.3L ecoboost engine producing 201kW and 420Nm at 3000rpm, mated to a 10-speed automatic transmission. The petrol ranger is highly regarded in the USA. Notwithstanding this Ford Australia apparently have decided Australia only gets diesels. More details in this link - https://www.drive.com.au/news/us-cri...-ranger-120402.
I think the ecoboost petrol engines are pretty good. I have an escape titanium and it is a great highway cruiser with enough poke and grunt. I only do highway miles in it as local duties and shopping trips are done in the old second car. The escape might be a bit thirstier than some other SUVs but I like the extra power (and the conventional torque auto in place of a Dual Clutch Auto or CVT). I wonder what a 2.3 ecoboost in an Escape with a 10 speed would be like.

Dr Smith · 31-08-2019, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minheim

Interesting that in the USA the Ranger is petrol only and has a 2.3L ecoboost engine producing 201kW and 420Nm at 3000rpm, mated to a 10-speed automatic transmission. The petrol ranger is highly regarded in the USA. Notwithstanding this Ford Australia apparently have decided Australia only gets diesels. More details in this link - https://www.drive.com.au/news/us-cri...-ranger-120402.
I think the ecoboost petrol engines are pretty good. I have an escape titanium and it is a great highway cruiser with enough poke and grunt. I only do highway miles in it as local duties and shopping trips are done in the old second car. The escape might be a bit thirstier than some other SUVs but I like the extra power (and the conventional torque auto in place of a Dual Clutch Auto or CVT). I wonder what a 2.3 ecoboost in an Escape with a 10 speed would be like.

Ford is tending to use the 8-speed auto in fwd/awd cars and 10-speed auto in rwd/awd platforms. Next Escape/Kuga has an 8-speed.
There are some exceptions like Shelby Mustang with a dual-clutch Tremec and maybe Focus hipo versions. I believe the Transit Custom vans will go 8-speed for fwd and maybe 10-speed for Transit large rwd.

Crazy Dazz · 31-08-2019, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minheim

Interesting that in the USA the Ranger is petrol only

Not really interesting, Americans think Diesels are a Communist Conspiracy

eb2fairmont · 31-08-2019, 06:09 PM

Errr get them talking about the Cummins 12 v and the power stroke and they’ll dribble for hiurs

Bossxr8 · 02-09-2019, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

While I accept your points with respect to commercial vehicles carrying loads, I'm thinking more the urban suv, like our case, wife might drive into the CBD 3 times a week, one way it's 18km, on a hybrid it would probably run electric the whole way so no petrol used at all, then when "I" get into it on the weekend I have 300kW..

edit.. I need to seek help, I think I've watched every video on the Lincoln Aviator and now the hybrid reviews are coming out...

Well the Ford SUV's will eventually all have a hybrid option. They have already stated they want just about every vehicle they make to have one in the range. And we are starting to see that now. Escape Hybrid has already been revealed and is coming here. Mustang Hybrid has already been talked about. Plus they did that video on the all electric F150 towing that train.

Give it a few years and they will be more readily available. As you point out, hybrids may make petrol motors more appealing and may eventually replace diesels. But then again, they can do diesel hybrids too.

Vesper Martini · 02-09-2019, 03:06 PM

Funny how the tech behind Diesel electric Locomotives never made its way to cars

The Yeti · 02-09-2019, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Funny how the tech behind Diesel electric Locomotives never made its way to cars

Has in port and plant equipment though

Sabantien · 03-09-2019, 07:02 PM

I guess it depends on what vehicle. I really like my barra, but would not mind giving a turbo a go.

In a 4wd, i'd probably choose diesel. A workmate has a V6 hilux, and as a passenger I found it was quiet and smooth and more car-like, but he's keen to get into a diesel.

I want a 4wd, and i'd probably go diesel too, the petrols use way too much fuel, plus diesel is often cheaper, at least the same price as 91 fuel.

Theoretically what would I like? A plug in hybrid that works both the electric motor and the engine together to increase range (I don't want to drive electric until that runs out and then a crappy little engine kicks in), without sacrificing power in the ICE, nor sacrificing a good sized fuel tank. The ability to drive around town on the electric motor would be nice.

A PHEV Outlander would almost fit the bill, but terrible range, terrible engine.