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09-01-2020, 11:17 PM | #1 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Perth, Northern Suburbs
Posts: 5,033
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Seems to me they serve no useful purpose, other than revenue.
Now I don't mind the idea of the government getting revenue from violations, after-all they have to raise money somewhere, but it occurs to me that the effectiveness of monetary penalties depends completely on your wealth, and that simply isn't fair. For rich ****s and CUBs, a $200 fine (with no demerits) is inconsequential. But for some families that's the week's groceries. I also think that it skews Police behaviour. Because its revenue focussed, they don't care who cops to the fine, as long as its paid. That means even with demerits, there's too much scope to easily avoid the repercussions. It also seems that the methodology is now increasingly geared towards automated revenue collection. Speed cameras and computers issue and collect fines, without any need for human involvement, and therefore nobody bothers to check that the correct person is being pinged. I also suspect, that a system based not on money but on actually penalising repeat offenders, would be more likely to be targetted on black-spots, rather the straight-stretch speed-cameras we see now. My proposal is simple: Replace all fines with demerit points, with the number of points and their duration increasing for more severe offences. When your points exceed the limit, your license is suspended until enough points expire to put you X% under the limit.
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09-01-2020, 11:40 PM | #2 | |||
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09-01-2020, 11:40 PM | #3 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,848
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Very good plan. Speed could be de-emphasized, and points focussed on actual causes of collisions. Perhaps a repeat offense of the same kind gets an extra point.
Maybe a large fee for renewal after points based suspension lets say the greatest of 1) 2% of your gross income, 2) 0.2% of the value of your primary residence 3) $2000 (annually indexed to CPI) |
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09-01-2020, 11:41 PM | #4 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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09-01-2020, 11:51 PM | #5 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,125
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The current system makes sense.
If you can’t afford to lose $200 because you won’t be able to buy weekly groceries, well that should be enough incentive to obey traffic laws then right? |
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09-01-2020, 11:54 PM | #6 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Location: Perth, Northern Suburbs
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Right, so you're saying only poor people should have to obey the law?
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09-01-2020, 11:58 PM | #7 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,125
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If you remove all cash fines, the government will still need their revenue and will just bump up everyone’s tax and the poor man still ends up paying. But as the saying goes, if you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime. Poor man can’t afford to speed, rich man can. Though what fine are you referring to as $200 and no points anyway? |
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10-01-2020, 12:05 AM | #8 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Perth, Northern Suburbs
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And get this, in WA at least, if caught with a licence suspended due to non-payment of fines, the only penalty is wait for it, yup, another $250 fine (with no demerit points.) Under my proposal, firstly the number of suspensions would be far less, making it far more practical for police to follow up and actually enforce suspensions. Then, people losing their licences would only be repeat offenders, so imposing a harsher penalty for driving whilst suspended would be warranted. Something like: 1st time - More Points 2nd time - Community Service 3rd time - Weekend Home Detention etc
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10-01-2020, 06:16 AM | #9 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,769
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I don't do anything wrong - it works all the time for me. My last traffic infringement was in Wodonga in late December 1997, that's right, 22 years ago, and I do lots of miles
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10-01-2020, 06:31 AM | #10 | ||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,815
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Me too Trev - I just haven't been caught
Gotta be like a fly on ****, have a hundred eyes everywhere If you really wanted to make a stand you just need to run a campaign getting everyone who has been fined to contest them - one of my mates just joined VicPol and he goes if someone contests one of his fines it generates so much paperwork that they'll just drop it unless the person they fined was a smart ***. Last edited by Franco Cozzo; 10-01-2020 at 06:38 AM. |
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10-01-2020, 07:14 AM | #11 | ||
Cabover nut
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Onsite Eastcoast
Posts: 11,498
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Yes, all fines should be abolished for Franco. He does us all a major service.
For everyone else, I'm with Trev. My last fine was 1984 from memory.
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10-01-2020, 08:14 AM | #12 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 983
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I hear of a LOT of cases of people with multiple suspensions....no licence for twenty years etc etc.... What to do with these “folk”?
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10-01-2020, 10:11 AM | #13 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Trinity Beach FNQ
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I copped a speeding ticket last September. $266 and three demerits. I elected to use the Queensland State Penalties Enforcement Register (SPER) scheme to pay it off by way of 60 bucks to kick off and then $60 monthly instalments.
Personally I wasn't really concerned about the demerits. I'm generally pretty careful about sticking to the road rules and as a result, tickets are a pretty rare occurrence. Thus I'm not overly concerned about accruing sufficient demerits to put my licence at risk. I do however think about the monetary fine, and I don't think there'd be anyone here who likes to shell out the hard-earned sheckels for a speeding indiscretion. I do know that whilst I've been paying those instalments I have been a bit more mindful of my speed and pulling my head in accordingly. So for me personally, the monetary fine is an effective deterrent. |
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10-01-2020, 10:40 AM | #14 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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10-01-2020, 10:40 AM | #15 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2013
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I don’t agree that fines should be abolished, but as to what $$$ punishment they should be ….. we could argue all day.
What annoys me greatly is the number of drivers who have had their license suspended, but continue to drive, with no regard to road rules. Confiscate their car, and sell it. If it happens to be somebody else’s car…. stiff cheese …. same applies. A recent accident in Sydney (?), a Ferrari, no licence, over the .05 limit, into a shop front. Good, no insurance, sell the wreck, or crush it. Hit his pocket, hard. As for camera fines, just revenue raising. My last fine was in Qld on 29 Mar 2003, notice was raised on 4 April, for doing 115 in a 100 zone, yes, guilty as charged, but I honestly thought the limit was 110, and I was still being passed by other traffic. The most annoying part was the accompanying letter telling me how dangerous my driving was, how speed kills, and I should drive more responsibly. Along with the cheque to pay the fine, I sent a logical letter asking why, if I was guilty of such heinous behaviour, I was not immediately stopped by the Police and fined, rather than being allowed to continue on my murderous way. I got the exact reply that I expected …. Nothing. |
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10-01-2020, 10:51 AM | #16 | |||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,777
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The problem with society is that everyone worries about someone elses problem. How about just drive your car and obey the rules and don't contribute to the system. Its not difficult.
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10-01-2020, 11:58 AM | #17 | ||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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State governments are too addicted to the revenue.
If speed cameras worked there would have been a decrease in the road toll, but as we know it's increased. Which is pretty shocking considering how much safer new vehicles have become. But of course these clowns will double down and use more speed cameras in the quest to bring down the road toll, something it has already failed to do. But luckily for them, their revenue projections from speed cameras have increased. Funny that. |
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10-01-2020, 12:54 PM | #18 | ||
BA/F6 BF/F6 SSV/R TTG
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Perth
Posts: 7,251
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First time its 6 additional points. Second time you go to jail.
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10-01-2020, 01:11 PM | #19 | ||
3..2..1..
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bellbird park
Posts: 7,218
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Time for some judge dredd style law enforcement...
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10-01-2020, 01:13 PM | #20 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Posts: 691
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10-01-2020, 01:57 PM | #21 | ||
AU3 ute EL futura
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 485
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I've been done for speeding on at least 4 occasions when I KNOW with absolute certainty I was under. There are a couple of other occasions where I am 90% certain I wasn't over.
I drive and ride slow as. I remember in the 90's I was helping a friend move. She was in her 70's then. She was telling me to speed up. The problem is if you drive a certain type of car, ride a motorcycle or look a certain way teh ***, er cops.... just assume you must be guilty of something. With the rise of speed cameras my infringements have dropped dramatically. The problem with fines is they create a conflict of interest for the state government and as soon as your safety policies are distracted by revenue raising they are undermined. People get annoyed contributing to the traffic taxes but the real problem is so much worse than that. Every soul who is maimed crippled or killed on the road is a catastrophe for everyone who loved them. I have been saying for decades instead of a fine offenders should have to attend a driving course of the same value. Conflict resolved, double penalty becomes a triple. Police allowed to enforce as they see fit. As for revenue maybe politicians could donate part of their obscene salaries and perks to roadworks... |
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10-01-2020, 03:50 PM | #22 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,938
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maybe we should choose? few points + big $$ or many points + low $$
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10-01-2020, 04:06 PM | #23 | ||||
FG XR6 Ute & Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bibra Lake WA
Posts: 23,612
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See: https://www.budgetdirect.com.au/car-...tatistics.html Quote:
So using your rational of "If speed cameras worked there would have been a decrease in the road toll" speed cameras must work.
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10-01-2020, 04:18 PM | #24 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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"Ohhhh, I was booked for 3 k's over, oh whoa is me" - bull-**** I say!!! All but a few cars have a 5-10% variation built into the speedo's, so they are reading slow, if you are doing 100 by the speedo you are most likely doing 95 - fact So, to get booked for 3 k's over you must be doing close to 110 by the speedo, 108+ exactly by the speedo - fact, people know they are going that fast Never whinge about the 3k's over it is widely accepted by Police (in Victoria) when using their radar they allow 10%, however the fixed mobile camera's are set for 3k's So, where do you find fixed mobile camera's? Easy, where it is obvious ****ers speed - pretty simple. Obvious straights on freeways, known 'hotspots', in towns where people should know better, high traffic area's where there is a clear straight run, if you don't know that then hand in your licence
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10-01-2020, 04:41 PM | #25 | |||
FG XR6 Ute & Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bibra Lake WA
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And yes; as I have pointed out in past threads on this subject such as https://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11438485 , whilst it's not a populist or a view widely supported here and elsewhere, the majority of objective peer reviewed research indicates that the judicious application of speed cameras does indeed result in fewer road fatalities. See https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0221267 for a recent 2019 paper that concludes that speed cameras where used reduce traffic accident by an average of 15%. And at https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/...etrics-content
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regards Blue Last edited by aussiblue; 10-01-2020 at 04:52 PM. |
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10-01-2020, 04:48 PM | #26 | |||
Cabover nut
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side note....often wonder whether cruise control attributes to a lot of country accidents due to the slower reaction time moving your foot back to the brake pedal as it wouldn't normally rest on the ac pedal. ??
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heritagestonemason.com/Fordlouisvillerestoration In order that the labour of centuries past may not be in vain during the centuries to come...... D. Diderot 1752
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10-01-2020, 04:59 PM | #27 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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10-01-2020, 05:07 PM | #28 | ||
Donating Member
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If your stupid enough to speed and the result of being caught is you dont eat for a week then you deserve to go hungry imho. Not saying by any stretch i dont ever drive/ride over the posted limit but theres a time n place for eveything if i get pinged its a fair call so just suck it up.
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10-01-2020, 05:13 PM | #29 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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10-01-2020, 05:14 PM | #30 | ||
FG XR6 Ute & Sedan
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And a recent NSW study https://books.google.com.au/books?hl...tralia&f=false showed fixed speed cameras reduced fatalities by 75% in places they were installed 4.1 on page 34. And fatalities increased by 20% when mobile speed cameras were withdrawn in 2009 4.3 on page 35.
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