Stop-Start - is it worth it?

[Crazy Dazz]

So my daughter's car has the stop-start feature.
It's never driven in huge traffic-jams, so I suppose it is most effective at traffic lights, but even then I'm not sure how much its saving, if anything.

What concerns me is the fundamental gut feeling that this is stressing a lot of components.
This is not a hybrid, it's a TD with a starter-motor.

The petrol version uses the special stop-start oil 0W-20, but I think this uses a fairly normal 5W-30 Diesel Oil. They seemed to be aimed at providing quick protection at start, but I wonder if it isn't sacrificing protection at the top end?

We've driven it long enough to get an idea of the fuel economy, so I'm thinking of switching off the feature for a while and see if it makes a huge difference.
Given diesel run very lean at idle, I doubt it will.

[PooDog]

I reckon its just a sales gimock so the round town economy is better than the opposition , long term you pay the price by the affects it must have on reliability , a few years ago we looked at a golf and the salesmen said you cant permanently turn it off you had to do it each time you drove it ....what a PIA

[Falcon SXR8]

On some of the mazdas with it you can permanently disable it by miss adjusting bonnet sensor or something so the car thinks bonnet is open, saves having to turn it off all the time.

The mazdas stop start doesn't use the starter aparently, it picks a cylinder near top dead center, injects fuel and lights it off to get it going. I think thats right anyway been a while since i read about it.

I agree though its useless tech that is annoying

[whynot]

It is a feature of our CX-5. I absolutely hate it and turn it off when I get in the car. But it doesn't bother my wife. I also hate the shudder as the car starts again.

For me. It always seems to cut out at the worst possible time. From observations, there appears to be two position switches on the brake pedal. I was taught to ease off the brake pedal so as to stop the car gently. This doesn't trigger i-stop. But I must have a habit of giving the pedal a push just before transferring my foot to the accelerator, and this triggers i-stop.

I don't know if this is true (or not), but apparently, you can ask the Mazda dealer to give you are reading from the on-board 'puter to find out how much fuel i-stop has saved. Allegedly, the fuel savings outweighs the additional cost of the battery.

As for wear and tear. It definitely puts more strain on the battery. From what I have read on the internet (which may or may not be true), under ideal circumstances a typical car battery is good for 30,000 starts whereas a stop-start battery has to be good for 80,000 starts. As for the rest of the mechanical, I don't think stop-start has a noticeable effect on component life.

Another reason why I cannot wait for technology to deliver a reasonably priced EV.

[PooDog]

what about the poor little turbo thats working hard pulling up a hill then the lights change and it sits cooking with no oil flowing through it , then the engine starts and the turbos full tit before the oil gets to it

[Blue Dog]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

So my daughter's car has the stop-start feature.
It's never driven in huge traffic-jams, so I suppose it is most effective at traffic lights, but even then I'm not sure how much its saving, if anything.

What concerns me is the fundamental gut feeling that this is stressing a lot of components.
This is not a hybrid, it's a TD with a starter-motor.

The petrol version uses the special stop-start oil 0W-20, but I think this uses a fairly normal 5W-30 Diesel Oil. They seemed to be aimed at providing quick protection at start, but I wonder if it isn't sacrificing protection at the top end?

We've driven it long enough to get an idea of the fuel economy, so I'm thinking of switching off the feature for a while and see if it makes a huge difference.
Given diesel run very lean at idle, I doubt it will.

You aren't looking at the big picture.

The Stop/Start system is designed to reduce vehicle exhaust emissions, not to reduce vehicle running costs.

Which vehicle would be producing more exhaust emissions?

A - The stationary vehicle with the engine idling.
B - The stationary vehicle with the engine off.

Consider the number of vehicles world wide fitted with a Stop/Start system & the amount of exhaust emissions that are not entering the atmosphere.

The engine oil viscosity is also related to lowering exhaust emissions, not to make the engine easier to start or to reduce engine protection.

[fiestaz]

Start Stop has been around for a while. Long enough to prove it can be reliable.

As for fuel savings, well that is purely going to depend on how it is driven and how often you are stopped. I don’t mind it, I’d have the tech and use it. May as well have the engine off when not in motion then sitting there wasting juice.

[jaydee]

As Whynot explained about how much pressure you put on tge pedal.
I also have a CX5 and wife has a Mazda SP25, both with istop.
If you pull up to lights and come to s stop, just enough pressure to hold the car stationary and the engine will keep running, but push a bit harder and istop kicks in.
If I know I have a long wait I'll use istop, but if I know it's only going to be less than a minute then gentle on the pedal.

[M&Ms]

It's on there so car manufacturer's can claim the minimum level of emissions for city driving. If a car has a stop/start system that remembers to stay off, emissions are calculated as the average between having a s/s and not having a s/s active. With a system that reverts to ON every time the car is started, emissions are calculated based on driving with s/s active.

Supposedly you can save between 4 and 8.7% in fuel by using it according to this 'scientific' test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFImHhNwbJo

For me, it's annoying, borderline dangerous (locks the steering, and there can be delay if you need to pull off in a hurry, plus it makes you look like a tight ****). It's the first thing I turn off when I jump in my car, and thinking of getting a permanent aftermarket disabler for $160 as well.

[Franco Cozzo]

I can't stand that start stop crapola, one of our company cars had it - Mazda 6.

Put it in sport mode and it wouldn't turn off at the lights.

[asagaai]

Have it in the Honda civic turbo diesel 1.6 litre- pain in the butt, when goes off the start up is a delayed pregnant pause. Puts strain on started motor and battery, let alone other components as others have said. Always turn it off.

In my Fiesta ST Mk8 also has stop start. Far quicker to turn engine back on when stopped, so is not that big a deal. But I drive the Fist in Sport or Track mode daily where it is turned off automatically so all is good

[MDS69]

So if is a stinking hot day what happens to the air conditioning. Does your phone blue tooth connection disconnect when it restarts and does the radio Cut out.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by MDS69

So if is a stinking hot day what happens to the air conditioning. Does your phone blue tooth connection disconnect when it restarts and does the radio Cut out.

The AC compressor stops turning with the engine, it would probably be 30+ seconds before you'd detect a change in temperature of the air coming out the HVAC system because of how cold the evaporator is behind the dash.

The car stays on ignition so all your in car entertainment stuff functions as normal, the engine just shuts off.

I find it highly annoying, particularly on approach to busy roundabouts.

[fiestaz]

Originally Posted by MDS69

So if is a stinking hot day what happens to the air conditioning. Does your phone blue tooth connection disconnect when it restarts and does the radio Cut out.

It is not like turning the key off. The engine turns off. Yes the aircon compressor stops, but if it’s a stinking hot day the car will stay running. Everything electrical continues running.

There are a number of parameters that the car needs to meet before the engine is turned off. Air con requirement, engine temp, battery voltage, even steering wheel angle, brake pedal pressure, list goes on.

[Ben73]

My Habit is hit engine start button then hit auto stop disable.
Having auto stop shows how short most of your stops are. Way too many times I’ll let off the brake as soon as the engine shuts down then the delay seems to be worse than the normal. Even the normal delay is annoying unless you are a few car back from the lights so you can let off the brake a little earlier than normal

[simon varley]

the best thing on the autos is that a slight relaxation of the brake pedal will restart the car. Manuals are a pain as you have to dip the clutch. or just turn the whole thing off.

Personally - I hate the damn thing but like many other emissions control devices it's here to stay so we'll just have to get on with it. Pretty sure though that my heavy accels outweigh any s/s benefit to the environment

[gkhn]

The work van has this.
I don't like it. It adds 1-2 seconds of delay.
Makes me really nervous - is it going to start this time?
Luckily you can disable it or you don't push the brake pedal all the way so it doesn't activate.
The amount of fuel you are going to save is minuscule.
Probably the starter motor and engine will wear out faster too when you frequently start/stop.
But who really cares..
They make them cheaper and doesn't really matter if the car fails. If it can make it till the warranty period is all that matters.
They just sell another new one

[naddis01]

It's easy to disable permanently with Forscan.

[kcodezd]

I really think the best way emissions can be improved, is not by shutting down an engine while idle, but to improve the synchronisation of traffic lights. Why can’t lights be set to change to green to keep a better flow of traffic. I understand that it is not always possible in heavy peak hour, but to stop at a red light at 4 or 5 in the morning for no one, is absurd.

[CyberWasp]

Cars are their most efficient at highway speeds.
The biggest reduction in emissions can be achieved by pinging off all the bike and bus lanes and opening the roads to cars.
If you don't have to stop/start a millions times crawling a few kilometers down the road then this technology is redundant.

[Jastel]

I am not a fan of it and usually turn it off or go into sports mode to kill it.

But once I was in a 10 mile 45 minute traffic jam in LA and thought I will let it do its thing...as said above if the battery got too flat, or you wanted the a/c colder the engine would NOT shut off so that was reassuring to know.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Blue Dog

You aren't looking at the big picture.

The Stop/Start system is designed to reduce vehicle exhaust emissions, not to reduce vehicle running costs.

Well I hate Baby Fur Seals, so they can go **** emselves

[Crazy Dazz]

The one thing it does that just really ****es me off quite irrationally, is that when you pull up somewhere to park, it switches off. But then starts again when you put it into park. And if I remember to kill it before changing gear, ten it screams at me to put the selector into park.

[fiestaz]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

The one thing it does that just really ****es me off quite irrationally, is that when you pull up somewhere to park, it switches off. But then starts again when you put it into park. And if I remember to kill it before changing gear, ten it screams at me to put the selector into park.

The Mazda I drove didn’t do that. Into park, handbrake on, engine was already off when stopping, press the button for everything to shut down.

[5thFordWA]

Originally Posted by Blue Dog

.................................................. ...........................
The Stop/Start system is designed to reduce vehicle exhaust emissions, not to reduce vehicle running costs.
.................................................. ...........................
Consider the number of vehicles world wide fitted with a Stop/Start system & the amount of exhaust emissions that are not entering the atmosphere.
.................................................. ...........................

I agree that in a situation of big traffic jams (London, Los Angeles, etc) the engine stop would add up to a large reduction in emissions.
I believe that it is probably a complex way to to meet an emission regulation parameter, ie, to pass the test - then we are stuck with it.

My experience was a rental Astra in UK for 3 weeks, manual trans. It caught me out a few times (did not restart when I hit the accelerator on a green light - had to hit the ignition key quickly), before I worked out how it worked. On some rural intersections with traffic lights that were going to run for a while, I was putting it in neutral with handbrake on (that's ok, isn't it?), then taking off without touching the brake pedal - normal driving in my book. So I concluded it was restarting based on release of brake pedal, not pressing of accelerator. Stupid, poor design. My wife felt very uncomfortable every time it gave the little "I'm stopping" shudder. I didn't have time to find out how to disable it, but it didn't worry me that much.

I was in quite a long traffic jam on a motorway in the middle of nowhere, for about 10 miles, and was wondering how the battery would last - in a post above someone has said they won't stop if the battery is getting low - makes sense - as does the air conditioning "exemption".

Cheers.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

The one thing it does that just really ****es me off quite irrationally, is that when you pull up somewhere to park, it switches off. But then starts again when you put it into park. And if I remember to kill it before changing gear, ten it screams at me to put the selector into park.

I believe it restarts when going into park because someone killed themselves accidentally because they left it in auto stop mode in their garage, after a while the battery was getting low so the engine started to charge it and gassed out their entire house. Apparently.


As for the post above saying it’s good for traffic jams in places like LA. It’s not really. In those sorts of traffic jams you usually only stop for a few seconds at a time before rolling forward at 10kmh or so. Auto stops only good for traffic lights around town when you have to wait for the full sequence

[prktkljokr]

Have it on our C200 and Smart Fortwo, on the Smart I made up a board that sends a signal at start up to disable, If I want it on I have to press the Eco start / stop button

Dont know if it could be adapted to others but here is the link I used
https://www.evilution.co.uk/electric...f_at_start.htm

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by Blue Dog

You aren't looking at the big picture.

The Stop/Start system is designed to reduce vehicle exhaust emissions, not to reduce vehicle running costs.

Which vehicle would be producing more exhaust emissions?

A - The stationary vehicle with the engine idling.
B - The stationary vehicle with the engine off.

Consider the number of vehicles world wide fitted with a Stop/Start system & the amount of exhaust emissions that are not entering the atmosphere.

The engine oil viscosity is also related to lowering exhaust emissions, not to make the engine easier to start or to reduce engine protection.

Start Stop systems role is to reduce emissions and reduce fuel use which are obviously interlinked . Reducing the fuel use also reduces the running costs . On government fuel consumption test there is a quite a bit of time spent idling while stationary at which point engine turns off - this enables manufacturer to achieve better fuel economy on test , to be displayed as an official fuel use (window sticker).
https://www.greenvehicleguide.gov.au...nsumptionLabel
, here you can see what test cycles are .

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by Falcon SXR8

On some of the mazdas with it you can permanently disable it by miss adjusting bonnet sensor or something so the car thinks bonnet is open, saves having to turn it off all the time.

The mazdas stop start doesn't use the starter aparently, it picks a cylinder near top dead center, injects fuel and lights it off to get it going. I think thats right anyway been a while since i read about it.

I agree though its useless tech that is annoying

Mazdas still use the starter motor to restart even if their advertising material does not mention it explicitly (but their illustrations show starter motor being activated) . Otherwise they would not need beefed up battery and starter motor.

[FTE217]

Seems the CX5 is popular that it is.
Wife's one has it, I hardly use it so wont bother de activating it and the bimmer has it, couldn't give a toss about it tbh, leave it as it is.