351W to ZF 6hp26

[darrenbauman]

hi folks
not sure if anyone has gone down this track, or if there is an existing thread
but has anyone mated up the ZF trans behind an early ford v8
I'm not bothered about the electronics as I see a few company's have now invested into the electronics side
if anyone has, i would like to know what issues you had, before i go down the track of machining up and modifying the bolt pattern

cheers
Darren

[39ClevoUte]

Hi I'm just in the completion stages of puting a 2014 F150 5L 6R80 behind a clevo.
The bell housing on a 5L has three bolts and the two dowels in the small block pattern.
ZFs have a computer inside, when ford started making the 6R80 they removed the TCU. This was the point where the aftermarket jumped in with stand alone TCU.
You still need an adapter to pick up missing bolts. The dowels are 1/2@ in SBF and 16mm in the 6R80. I made double ended bolts / dowels. which means the two dowels also act as bolts.
I cut the starter mount from an old V8 BTR bell housing and fitted (welded) to the 6R80 (our) passenger side.
Next is the TC. This needs to be spaced back aprox the thickness of your spacer and have the spigot turned down and an adapteor made to mate to the crank.
I'm using a US Shift: Quick 6 TCU.
Hope this helps.

[darrenbauman]

hey Clevo37
much appreciated, do you have any photos?
I've laid a sandwich plate from a Cleveland over the ZF Trans from a 5.4L and surprised having 4 bolts align up
so i'll start on making an adapter plate and post the results

Cheers

[39ClevoUte]

Haven't got two many shots but will get some more when I get back to the shed.

Here's one of the initial mock up, and an initial bolt up, it's 10mm plate.

Are you going to convert it to external TCU or use CAN to ECU control?

[roddy1960]

No wonder more people want this gearbox... It's a beauty . My FG XR6 is often in sports shift mode and is just fun to use . In my old BA Fairmont Ghia with the four speed sports shift I just couldn't be bothered . I'm actually surprised how much power the ZF can handle too when done right . Many of the big kilowatt Barra turbo crew stick with the ZF . Of course , goes without saying how important the upgraded trans cooler is when looking for big power and/or heavy towing applications .. Guessing switching with a V8 in mind will be no problem with the management systems available...Sounds interesting and exciting ..

[darrenbauman]

I've done a few comparisons with the the ZF 6hP26 boxes
the first photo is of a 6 cylinder and one on the off and 5.4L V8
clearly the same casting but slight changes in the machining

when i measure this up with the sandwich plate off the early Ford V8 (Cleveland and Windsor) i have 4 on the 6 main bolts align perfectly

my thoughts are that i'll machine up an adapter plate, 13mm thick and bring it together. i'll need to pick up a block and see where i am with the starter motor off the ZF trans, but so far looking promising

[39ClevoUte]

The two most important holes are the dowel holes. All the rest are clearence fit ("loose").
Not only do the dowels align the transmission, they are critical to the placement of the starter. The starter is aligned by the big hole in the sandwich plate and the sandwich is aligned by the dowels.
I used a 5ltr 2014 6R80 for three reason. 1) its not a ZF with TCM built in 2) the bell housing was a better fit to SFB and 3) the bell housing was easier to modify for a passenger side starter.
Plus the 80 stands for 800nm. Hope this helps.

[knight rider]

Looked into this , I messaged US shift and there controller doesn't work with Aussie zf for what ever reason, so you need a box out of US car

[39ClevoUte]

It's because their controller is a TCU (it controls the solenoids in the box) using inputs from the engine etc.
Your box has the TCU in it (it controls the solenoids) using information from the engine etc via the CAN network from the ECU.
Ford seem to prefer a PCM (= ECU combined with TCU) so when they began making their own version of the ZF they dumped the TCU in the box idea.
The 6R80 is heavey duty compared to ZF with many internal changes.
The Quick 6 is a great package and has software for just about every shift requirement you might need. If your interested you can download the actual software package for free and go through all the options.
You can also find 6r80 in diesel territory and Rangers. The Territory could be a go, you might need a different TC, but maybe not. The rest of the box would be the same, except you may need to convert to RWD. Pretty sure you can't use a ZF case.
Maybe a RWD Ranger could be the go.
6R80 = 6speed, RWD, 800nm.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by 37Clevo

It's because their controller is a TCU (it controls the solenoids in the box) using inputs from the engine etc.
Your box has the TCU in it (it controls the solenoids) using information from the engine etc via the CAN network from the ECU.
Ford seem to prefer a PCM (= ECU combined with TCU) so when they began making their own version of the ZF they dumped the TCU in the box idea.
The 6R80 is heavey duty compared to ZF with many internal changes.
The Quick 6 is a great package and has software for just about every shift requirement you might need. If your interested you can download the actual software package for free and go through all the options.
You can also find 6r80 in diesel territory and Rangers. The Territory could be a go, you might need a different TC, but maybe not. The rest of the box would be the same, except you may need to convert to RWD. Pretty sure you can't use a ZF case.
Maybe a RWD Ranger could be the go.
6R80 = 6speed, RWD, 800nm.

I heard a rumour that the 6R80 was developed without the ZF TCU because they’re damned expensive and Ford wanted their own power control software anyway. That became obvious when they moved to the 10R80 / 10R140.

Also noticed that Americans have adaptor plates for Windsors to 6R80, obviously, you’ve been all through this, did you find that are there enough differences with the Aussie ZFs to cause problems using yank kits designed for the 6R80s?

https://site.matthillmotorsports.com...engine-adapter

Also, discussions with US Ford transmission engineers, the 80 in 6R80 and 10R80 is the nominal input rating (800nm) but clearly they can take a lot more when guys supercharge their V8s and crank up the boost in the EB V6s.
Also the 10R140 is designed to go in front of the 6.7 Powerstroke that makes 1,000 lb ft (~1,400 nm) so you can see there’s still a bit of leeway there..

the 6R80 has a bigger input shaft size and corresponding bigger spline, so it won't fit into a 6t crankshaft connection, but of course it can be modified to suit one, with enough money

A modified 6R80 input shaft and associated collars etc in the transmission can be an upgrade option path for the 6HP26...but it's really unnecessary as the 6HP26 with some uprated clutches and a few other minor modifications can make it handle a stupid amount of power. Besides, if you have a 6HP32 (upgraded 26), there’s just no need…

[darrenbauman]

Looks like Haltech is doing a stand alone controller

[darrenbauman]

does anyone happen to to have an Autocad Drawing for Cleveland/Windsor and 5.4L bell housing bolt pattern?

[darrenbauman]

hey jpd80
i wasn't aware of that swap, the adapter plate is similar to what i had in mind
my initial thoughts were to machine up a single piece adapter plate
thats certainly put a nice angle on things

Cheers

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by darrenbauman

hey jpd80
i wasn't aware of that swap, the adapter plate is similar to what i had in mind
my initial thoughts were to machine up a single piece adapter plate
thats certainly put a nice angle on things

Cheers

Glad to assist, adaptor plates can be tricky but kudos to you for having a go mate

[oldel]

Any reason why you want a 6HP? Most development overseas for adapters and controller is all about the 8HP because that's the one recognised as the best RWD ZF auto currently.
As mentioned above, trying to use an aussie 6hp from a falcon has a smaller market with no international support.

[Citroënbender]

I’ve been considering how hard or easy it might be to edit a Falcon/Territory PCM down to minimum data requirements for the ZF to operate correctly. Would be nice to see a home-grown solution instead of imported bolt-ons.

If PATS is disabled is the BEM redundant, or do all the ZF coupled PCMs directly use CAN inputs from steering angle and yaw sensors (as opposed to them being part of the dialogue between brake module and PCM)?